Originally Posted by gordojones88 The Wii U is doomed.

Deja vu! I recall reading a similiar post when the Wii came out.

I will be amazed if we look back (when the next generation hits) on the Wii U and it sells anywhere close to what the Wii sold. The Wii had a gimmick that actually worked. I never got into it, I have a Wii and the only game I played on it was new super mario. A lot of people who don't normally play games did get into it though. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see the same thing happening with the Wii U and the new controller. I'll probably pick up a Wii U but I've owned every new major console for the past 15 years or whatever. I think if microsoft plays their cards right has the chance to absolutely dominate the next generation. I hope not though because I kind of likes having some competition with consoles.

Mircosoft seems to want to make their 720 more inline with running up against Apple. The 2nd sku that wont be able to play any AAA titles kinda baffles me.

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The Wii worked because it was new and different, and it did something no other console did with the motion controls at the time. The Wii U does nothing of that, it just streams games to the tablet and you can continue games on the tablet while someone else watches the TV. This is not a very exciting feature. Again I don't see this being an issue in America since everyone has more than 1 TV in their house.

If thats the case, I guess the ps4 and 720 wont reallybe doing anything fun and exciting either.

Originally Posted by SaraAB The Wii worked because it was new and different, and it did something no other console did with the motion controls at the time. The Wii U does nothing of that, it just streams games to the tablet and you can continue games on the tablet while someone else watches the TV. This is not a very exciting feature. Again I don't see this being an issue in America since everyone has more than 1 TV in their house.

You are overlooking some crucial facts.

The Wii didn't just work because it was new and different. It worked because it was new, different, easy to understand, and cheap.

Of course, the obvious counter-argument is that while the Wii U is both new and different, it is most certainly not easy to understand, nor is it cheap. Those are the elements that will really prove troublesome to Nintendo.

The expectations surrounding the Wii U are more than a little blown out of proportion. The system has been selling surprisingly well, despite the fact that it isn't "sold out." And the supply of games at launch was frankly staggering. (which says a lot about the faith that developers have in the system)

For the time being, the Wii U is going to be struggling to compete against the XBox 360 and PS3. This will be an uphill battle, and the Wii U is not going to run away with the audience the way its predecessor did. What will really show if the Wii U was a worthwhile experiment for Nintendo is how well it fares against Microsoft and Sony's next systems.

Nintendo just have to drop the price by $50 next Christmas and it will be at a price ps4 and 720 can't really complete

They should have just put a Nexus 7 with a Nintendo App in the box instead of their tablet. Nintendos controller isn't a real tablet. If I remember correctly, Nintendo is said to be paying about 160 to 170 for the controller. If they had the Nexus 7 they would have attracted a lot of people since its a REAL tablet and it's only $200 so they could have had a really good deal. Leave hardware manufacturing to the people that know what they are doing because if 160 is the best they could do for a resistive touch screen tablet with no real built in hardware, they're doing it wrong. Heck, even the iPad's margin is like 50% so Apple is able to manufacture iPads for around $250.

Originally Posted by 62t Nintendo just have to drop the price by $50 next Christmas and it will be at a price ps4 and 720 can't really complete

It should be obvious by now that MS is going to be very agressive on pricing. These XBL contract consoles are nothing but a dry run for the 720 and everyone knows from years of experience that people would rather pay more under contract than full price up front. I expect the 720 to be $199 under a 2 year XBL contract. Good luck with that Nintendo and your $350 console.

When you think about it, the average consumer (not us) just buys a year on the Xbox at $60 with their card. That's $120 for 2 years. Add to that $200 discount on the console and you're up to $320. Under contract the customer has to pay $15 a month for 24 months or $360. So to the average consumer, they'll only be paying $40 more over two years to get the next box for $199.99 day one and they'll probably be GIVING AWAY the 360 under contract next year. If successful, this strategy can really disrupt the market and the other guys are going to scramble to catch up. Sony has a service so they could do something similar with PS+ but Nintendo...?

Speaking of market disruption. This is going to hurt. I posted this in the general game chat but seems appropriate here as well. To quote myself, Thank god, maybe we'll finally get competition on digital content.
http://kotaku.com/5966860/gabe-newel...t+gen-consoles

Originally Posted by Blaster man They should have just put a Nexus 7 with a Nintendo App in the box instead of their tablet. Nintendos controller isn't a real tablet. If I remember correctly, Nintendo is said to be paying about 160 to 170 for the controller. If they had the Nexus 7 they would have attracted a lot of people since its a REAL tablet and it's only $200 so they could have had a really good deal. Leave hardware manufacturing to the people that know what they are doing because if 160 is the best they could do for a resistive touch screen tablet with no real built in hardware, they're doing it wrong. Heck, even the iPad's margin is like 50% so Apple is able to manufacture iPads for around $250. It should be obvious by now that MS is going to be very agressive on pricing. These XBL contract consoles are nothing but a dry run for the 720 and everyone knows from years of experience that people would rather pay more under contract than full price up front. I expect the 720 to be $199 under a 2 year XBL contract. Good luck with that Nintendo and your $350 console. When you think about it, the average consumer (not us) just buys a year on the Xbox at $60 with their card. That's $120 for 2 years. Add to that $200 discount on the console and you're up to $320. Under contract the customer has to pay $15 a month for 24 months or $360. So to the average consumer, they'll only be paying $40 more over two years to get the next box for $199.99 day one and they'll probably be GIVING AWAY the 360 under contract next year. If successful, this strategy can really disrupt the market and the other guys are going to scramble to catch up. Sony has a service so they could do something similar with PS+ but Nintendo...?

The problem is the rent a center model only appeals to a certain population. They would have take into account of people stop paying or simply return the system. Plus when you factor that almost half the Xbox 360 user never use XBL it is not going to make a difference.

Originally Posted by 62t The problem is the rent a center model only appeals to a certain population. They would have take into account of people stop paying or simply return the system. Plus when you factor that almost half the Xbox 360 user never use XBL it is not going to make a difference.

I don't think this is at all like rent-a-center. It's much more like a contract with a cell phone including an ETF. Rent-A-Center is completely different. People are used to doing contracts with cell phones to bring down the cost and most people don't want to spend $650 on an iPhone.

Originally Posted by Blaster man I don't think this is at all like rent-a-center. It's much more like a contract with a cell phone including an ETF. Rent-A-Center is completely different. People are used to doing contracts with cell phones to bring down the cost and most people don't want to spend $650 on an iPhone.

You need a data plan to use iphone. For people that don't want to pay up front, they are the people that use rent a center. Like I said more than half the Xbox 360 owner never use XBL. When they have to factor in people who stop paying or return the system, they might not want to risk it for a new system. If someone buy a new system and there is no new games in the next several months, he is not going to keep it.

Originally Posted by 62t You need a data plan to use iphone. For people that don't want to pay up front, they are the people that use rent a center. Like I said more than half the Xbox 360 owner never use XBL. When they have to factor in people who stop paying or return the system, they might not want to risk it for a new system. If someone buy a new system and there is no new games in the next several months, he is not going to keep it.

If half the people with Xbox's have XBL then that's tens of millions of people that could get in on this and I'd almost guarantee that MANY more would sign up for it than you believe. As for your concerns about returns, nothing stops you from returning an iPhone but you don't because you want it. Sure some people will return the Xbox but some people also return the iPhone. If you miss the return period and you cancel XBL you have to pay an ETF just like a cell phone contract.

I tried to copy the section but the box doesn't copy over. LOok at section 11.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/Legal/xbox...contract-terms
11. EARLY TERMINATION FEES.

I really believe you underestimate the number of people willing to sign up for this in order to save $200 out of the gate.

Many of those ETF ended up being collect by collection agency, because if those people really need to save $200, chances are they don't have money in the bank account. You also underestimating how much risk to do this with a new product.

Originally Posted by 62t Many of those ETF ended up being collect by collection agency, because if those people really need to save $200, chances are they don't have money in the bank account. You also underestimating how much risk to do this with a new product.

ETF's get sent to collections? Okay sure, I have no hard numbers do dispute this assertion but if correct then it must still make financial sense to offer subsidies or the carriers simply wouldn't be offering them. It seems that you believe that this is going to fail. I'm 100% certain that this is going to succeed and HUGE numbers of Xbox 720's are going to be sold under subsidy. It's human nature to want to pay $199.99 now and the rest + $40 over 24 months.

Originally Posted by Blaster man It's human nature to want to pay $199.99 now and the rest + $40 over 24 months.

Like I said those people can get that kind of deal at rent a center. Plus at rent a center they can return it any time. Yes they can play online but over half the users dont use it.

Originally Posted by 62t Like I said those people can get that kind of deal at rent a center. Plus at rent a center they can return it any time. Yes they can play online but over half the users dont use it.

Can't say I've ever used rent a center but my understanding is you end up paying WAY more than $40 over retail.

You are extremely negative but you haven't said this isn't going to work. So lets get that out there, are you saying this will not work and very few people will use this? If so, we are in extreme disagreement. I believe "those people" will account for at least 10% of sales.

MS's objective isn't to make tons of money off the contract, it's to increase he install base. I'd like to see the rent a center terms because I can almost guarantee that it's a much worse deal than this or a cell phone contract.

Hey man, last time I bought a car it came with a loan. Same thing with my house. Guess I'm a rent a center kind of guy?

The deal been available at BB and GS since June, but the sales for Xbox 360 has been declining every month compare to last year. So I do not think it will get 10% of sales.

Originally Posted by 62t The deal been available at BB and GS since June, but the sales for Xbox 360 has been declining every month compare to last year. So I do not think it will get 10% of sales.

As I said, it's a dry run. Did you read my posts before replying or did you read like half then reply? A dry run is a trial to test the waters for the real thing and work out the bugs. They didn't just start this a year before the new console is released by coincidence after all.
The current Xbox pricing is very different than a new launch will be so way more people will take advantage of this. Why do I even have to type this. Either you didn't read my posts fully or you are being intentionally obtuse. The Wii U is going to have a hell of a time competing against a $199.99 Xbox 720 under contract.

The dry run was at MS store (limited area), then it was expanded to GS and BB (basically everywhere)