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When puzzles aren't based on any logic that's rooted in reality, the player gets reduced to just clicking on stuff until something triggers, then you run around to find what triggered. Sometimes you get items, then you click around until you find the item that it matches up with, if it isn't immediately obvious. The puzzle in the demo is not really about exercising any brain power at all. The only way you can get "stuck" is by constantly checking a set of clickable spots and forgetting to check some other clickable spot. But you can't think about how one item might logically work in the situation, because it already has a weird pre-determined role. Some of the puzzle solutions are creative and sort of interesting, but it doesn't feel like gameplay I'm actively involved in. It's like a series of weird red herrings.
Basically, it suffers from typical adventure game logic, but with an anime story line and art style, complete with barely covered big boobed chicks telling you how awesome you are when you figure something out. No thx
I have come to a bridge and a troll pops out...
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While I'm not exactly a fan of all the puzzles I've encountered in the game, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about then it comes to the story of this or 999.
This.
The game isn't for everyone but damn does that dude not understand anything about 999 or Zero.
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Originally Posted by Capocci 007
I'm 100% shocked that books still exist in today's day and age. I thought they'd be out by now. They make up like 1% of today's entertainment and unless you're 60 or older, stray away from books and start emersing yourself with real entertainment.
oh shit, i seem to have attacked a golden cow....alright, challenge accepted.
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Originally Posted by Zerok
Never played the demo, so I'm not sure which puzzle you're referring to. But I'm gonna go ahead and guess it's the first one, the elevator room? Nothing in that room, or any of the other puzzle rooms, had red herrings. Everything you find is used to solve the puzzle and the things you can take and interact with stand out from the things you can't.
That's nice. I'm talking about the composition of the puzzles. They aren't "puzzles" if they make no sense. You apparently missed the important part where I said you get reduced to clicking around because there's no real discernable logic to the puzzles. You see, a puzzle presents a problem, and a good puzzle has a clever but solvable problem. A bad puzzle has a bunch of "ah ha! gotcha!" crap that makes no sense leading to the solution. Some bullshit puzzle is a game that knows nobody can use logic to figure it out, so they just have you brainlessly clicking on stuff until some of those things happen to match up.
For example, this demo basically went like this (prob not 100% correct, this is off the top of my head): there are 4 rooms, 4 phones, one of the phones unlocks a safe in another room (wtf), which gives you a tape that you put in to a phone that has an answering machine message with a number that you put into the phone which reflects on a mirror behind the phone which gives you different numbers which open a safe that has tinfoil which you cut with a box cutter, which you place in 4 desks with glass tops that reflect on symbols on a wall (naturally!) which give you numbers that open a box behind you which you eventually gives you a coin that you use to scratch off stuff on a poster and part of the scratch off part is gray indicating that you can scratch it off, but other scratch off parts aren't gray, and you'd only know to scratch them off if you randomly tried that. Or if you put it together that the ripped parts on the body outlines of the cots in the rooms corresponded to the poster and that you should scratch those parts. Because of course the body parts correspond to the poster! I mean, the description when you look at the cot says "The girl here thinks there's something inside this cot" and you think "oh well, I'll just use this box cutter to get the thing that's inside the cot." but no, that's a translation error or something. So you get the numbers on the poster, which you put into the phone or safe or something, but it's not working, then you realize the symbols on the poster were upside down, so the 6s and 9s were too, and then you get that which gives you something else which opens the safe.
Which part of this makes a lick of sense?
Love the story all you want, but both you and I know that nobody is deducing any of this crap on their own and are just clicking around until they find out what convoluted way the developers intended you to do something. The only parts that make sense are when you get numbers to put into a phone or safe lock.
So very sorry I didn't find this fun.
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LOL! I'm gonna go ahead and assume you never played 999, because this couldn't be further from the truth. And it's not an adventure game, more of a visual novel with some puzzles.
when the hell did i say i played 999...
"Adventure game logic" does not mean I'm saying it's an adventure game. I'm saying the puzzles suffer from adventure game logic. The puzzles in adventure games are often not very intuitive and make you just click around until you match A with B, where A and B are things nobody except the puzzle creator would know or think to do.
Phoenix Wright has the same thing sometimes...not an adventure game, but parts where you have to present something. You're like "oh, i'll show the scissors, which this character had and must have used to murder someone, that's definitely the answer." But noooo, it was the printer ink cartridge, which the character's father invented while in a boat stranded at sea with a guy whose 3rd cousin invented scissors---THE VERY SAME SCISSORS USED TO MURDER THE VICTIM!! That kind of stuff.
and the demo basically made it sound like Gantz...people randomly trapped in an inexplicable situation who have to figure out for themselves what to do and who will team up with who and who will betray who. Don't blame me if the demo did a crappy job of presenting the story. But the foundation of the plot is straight from Gantz, an anime.
And yes, a big boobed chick who is barely covered bouncing around and complimenting you when you figure out the duck quacks at a frequency which unlocks the door to the door to the feather that tickles the nose of the dog who throws up the key because feathers make him ill.
You should spoiler that stuff. I haven't played Virtue's Last Reward yet. Please play 999 first. If you don't like big boobed chicks who compliment you that's fine. Just give both games a chance with at least one play-through.
You should spoiler that stuff. I haven't played Virtue's Last Reward yet. Please play 999 first. If you don't like big boobed chicks who compliment you that's fine. Just give both games a chance with at least one play-through.
"I hated the gameplay completely"
"please play 999 first"
alrighty then
i don't even get how that can be considered a spoiler, since it's a non-sense puzzle anyway, but okay, i'll spoiler it.
I think you just don't understand what kind of game this is.
if you were expecting Professor Layton type puzzles, you were wrong. (And I love Prof Layton games.)
So don't hate because of your own misconceptions. It's like buying Halo Wars and ranting that the shooting mechanics aren't right.
well, consider my mind blown. the demo made it out like puzzles were the gameplay and were supposed to be legitimately good. My apologies if that's not the point...I tend to be more gameplay oriented, that might be where we're all clashing.
There seems to be universal praise for the game, so I gave the demo an honest shot.
well, consider my mind blown. the demo made it out like puzzles were the gameplay and were supposed to be legitimately good. My apologies if that's not the point...I tend to be more gameplay oriented, that might be where we're all clashing.
There seems to be universal praise for the game, so I gave the demo an honest shot.
actually i just totally conceded the argument to you guys. i get it, i missed the point.
well, consider my mind blown. the demo made it out like puzzles were the gameplay and were supposed to be legitimately good. My apologies if that's not the point...I tend to be more gameplay oriented, that might be where we're all clashing.
There seems to be universal praise for the game, so I gave the demo an honest shot.
Well, give me a point of reference then. Give me a game that you think has good puzzles of this type.
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when the hell did i say i played 999...
I never did? Which is why I said I'm going to assume you haven't played it.
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and the demo basically made it sound like Gantz...people randomly trapped in an inexplicable situation who have to figure out for themselves what to do and who will team up with who and who will betray who. Don't blame me if the demo did a crappy job of presenting the story. But the foundation of the plot is straight from Gantz, an anime.
I'd say it's more Saw than Gantz, but even that description isn't right.
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oh shit, i seem to have attacked a golden cow....alright, challenge accepted....
So very sorry I didn't find this fun....
when the hell did i say i played 999...
Don't blame me if the demo did a crappy job of presenting the story...
And yes, a big boobed chick who is barely covered bouncing around and complimenting you when you figure out the duck quacks at a frequency which unlocks the door to the door to the feather that tickles the nose of the dog who throws up the key because feathers make him ill.
GOTY
Alright, you seem to be becoming antagonistic for no apparent reason. Also, this is the type of game where a demo cannot do the story justice, it's like taking a random chapter out of the middle of a novel. And if I judged a game solely on a demo I'd have missed out on some great games.
VLR has a big boobed chick who is barely covered, bouncing around, and complimenting you?
Time to move it up my backlog.
Seraphinianus got the big boobed chick/barely covered part right.. but she's not bouncing around and complimenting you lol. Oh, and I would LOVE to find an anime with this game's story. 95% of anime is nothing like it, might be able to find an anime that has a couple similarities, but they're rare.
Seraphinianus got the big boobed chick/barely covered part right.. but she's not bouncing around and complimenting you lol. Oh, and I would LOVE to find an anime with this game's story. 95% of anime is nothing like it, might be able to find an anime that has a couple similarities, but they're rare.
Try Monster. It's not really similar in plot structure, but it has similar themes and a huge heaping of well-done plot twists with very deliberate pacing.
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12-16-2012, 09:24 AM
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