My biggest question is who are the 8 idiots who were willing to vote for Clemens but not for Bonds?

Originally Posted by KingBroly How in the hell does Schilling get less votes than Mike Piazza?

Piazza is the greatest offensive catcher of all time, and it isn't even close.

LOL @ people thinking they are high and mighty and shutting people out of the hall of fame as though that changes peoples perceptions about how great of players they were.

Originally Posted by CaseyRyback Piazza is the greatest offensive catcher of all time, and it isn't even close.

Agreed. I'd put Piazza in before Schilling.

But this is such a stacked class, if you're going by what they accomplished on the field there are at least 10 guys on this list who should be in the Hall.

All of them should get in, in my opinion. Nearly everybody involved in baseball was complicit in the steroid era, and profited from it, and that includes many of these same writers who are voting to punish these guys now (including guys like Bagwell and Piazza who've never been formally accused of anything). Put them in the Hall, that way baseball has to wear the steroid era like a black eye forever. Trying to pretend it didn't happen serves no purpose.

I really dislike how Bagwell and Piazza are suffering because of the era they played in. Saying that, I would still vote in Bonds (one of the three best hitters of all-time) and Clemens (one of the three best pitchers of all-time). And Craig Biggio, how the hell did he not get in? Oh, that's right, he's not "first ballot" material to the voters. Such a joke.

Originally Posted by GhostShark I really dislike how Bagwell and Piazza are suffering because of the era they played in.

It's disgusting.

It's not going to get easier for these guys either. Next year they have to compete with Maddux and Glavine, then with Randy Johnson and Pedro the year after. I suspect Biggio will get in eventually, but some of these guys like Piazza and Bagwell who not only 100% deserve to be there but also have never been accused of using steroids might be waiting a long time.

This is really about the egos of many members of the BBWAA. So many of these guys got swept up in that era too and failed to do their jobs in reporting on the steroid era while it was happening, now it's just about petty revenge masquerading as righteous indignation.

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Originally Posted by CaseyRyback Piazza is the greatest offensive catcher of all time, and it isn't even close.

And yet, still less than 40% of the vote.

Originally Posted by KingBroly And yet, still less than 40% of the vote.

It's obvious that in the eyes of the writers, if you played in that era you're guilty until proven innocent. Especially if you're a hitter.

Originally Posted by bvharris Hall of Fame shutout. I'd say it's about time that the BBWAA no longer gets to decide who's in and who's out. I'm not sure what the best way to do it is, but it isn't this. I feel especially bad for a guy like Biggio, who should definitely be in the Hall of Fame and yet gets swept up in this nonsense.

Biggio wouldn't be a HOF'er if he didn't get 3,000 hits. The definition of the word compiler.

He was never a feared offensive force. Good player, not great, IMO. I don't think steroid or steroid era played any part in it.

Originally Posted by DestroVega Biggio wouldn't be a HOF'er if he didn't get 3,000 hits. The definition of the word compiler. He was never a feared offensive force. Good player, not great, IMO. I don't think steroid or steroid era played any part in it.

You're absolutely right. Any player who hangs around long enough will get 3,000 hits, that's why it happens all the time.

Biggio's lifetime WAR puts him inside top 100 position players who ever played the game, he's certainly one of the best offensive 2nd basement ever, and he played 20 seasons providing good defense at three premium defensive positions. He wasn't an OPS machine, but that was never his role. 13 players in MLB history scored more runs than this guy.

There are plenty of players with similar profiles to Biggio in the Hall. "Compiling" as you put it isn't a knock against him, if it were easy to be as consistent as that dude was there would be more guys doing it. He absolutely deserves to be in, as do most of the guys on this ballot.

The reason he didn't get in (besides writers who seemed to categorically refuse to vote for anyone on this ballot) is because of the silly notion about whether someone is a "first ballot Hall of Famer" or not. If you're Hall worthy, you're worthy. Same thing happened to Barry Larkin, and many others. The "first ballot" distinction has always been stupid. He'll get in eventually, but it's ridiculous that he's not in now.

Originally Posted by DestroVega Biggio wouldn't be a HOF'er if he didn't get 3,000 hits. The definition of the word compiler. He was never a feared offensive force. Good player, not great, IMO. I don't think steroid or steroid era played any part in it.

So Ichiro doesn't deserve to be in the HoF either? Biggio definitely deserves to be in with Piazza and Bagwell.

Originally Posted by tcrash247 So Ichiro doesn't deserve to be in the HoF either? Biggio definitely deserves to be in with Piazza and Bagwell.

Please guys. Biggio had ONE 200-hit-season.

Ichiro had TEN straight. And then his next season, (184) would be Biggio's 4th best season in 20 years.

Biggio's a solid player. Not even great, definitely not a HOF'er.

He never dominated.

This is what happens when you have 600 voters and only about 1/2 to 2/3 actually cover baseball anymore.

And to those who sent in blank ballots, punishing even those who did not play in the steroid era, then frak you.

I think the only vote percentage that really irked me when I read it was Fred McGriff's. I feel Crime Dog is a Hall of Famer, and it really surprises me that he only got 20 percent of the vote.

I still don't get how Aaron "148-112, 4.61 career ERA, 0-6 in the postseason" Sele got a vote.

I like to imagine it was a ballot with a single vote for Aaron Sele. Seriously though, who the voted for Aaron Sele?

Shit, I give that guy more respect than the people that put nobody on their ballot.

what made this is worse is that there are some writers who left it blank like Howard Bryant. Why give them a vote if they are just going to toss it away.

I can't stand the BBWA sometimes. They pretty much deemed themselves as the moral police. If steroids is cheating than what level are pine tar, amphetamines, and corked bats are on? Gaylord Perry should have never made the Hall if thats the case do to his spit balls. That is what really pissed me off is that they are cheaters in baseball without steroids but they look all holier than thou compared to these guys. The consistency is amazing.

Oh if Bert Blyleven is a HoF than Jack Morris is one too. How does that work out?

I hated what happened to Bagwell and Piazza. Piazza wasnt even named on the Mitchell report and its just lame whispers that are keeping him out.

What a crappy day for baseball and its fans.

Originally Posted by ced I like to imagine it was a ballot with a single vote for Aaron Sele. Seriously though, who the voted for Aaron Sele?

His dad MUST have a vote.

Originally Posted by ced I like to imagine it was a ballot with a single vote for Aaron Sele. Seriously though, who the voted for Aaron Sele?

I was listening to MLB Network radio and they suggested that a reporter who had Sele as a clubhouse informant voted for him.