Originally Posted by perdition(troy I don't know why people are bashing armed guards so much. It would make me feel better sending my kids to a public school knowing there is one more safety barrier put in place.

So we should go ahead and put armed guards in shopping malls, amusement parks, hospitals, parks, etc. as well? Those are all places children would/could be.

Who regulates these armed guards? State, federal, freelance? If it's state or federal, isn't that just giving the government that much more military-type power that conservatives and republicans are so concerned about gun rights being preserved to protect against in the first place?

I have armed security personal in my workplace, so that doesn't bother me (to the poster before RvB).

RvB, those private sector companies/businesses that you named can and many have put armed guards/security in place. I have no problem knowing that if I go to a mall chances are they have armed security in the building, or off duty LEO's. At local hospital's in my area there are armed security officers in the building, doesn't bug me at all. Parks usually have beat cops that routinely are in the area. The only amusement parks I've been (6 Flags, Disney on both coasts) have armed security on hand.

In a school, the same people regulate the guards and training they need that regulate the rest of the school, local communities and states. The military type power already exists.

Because schools shouldn't need armed guards?

Originally Posted by perdition(troy RvB, those private sector companies/businesses that you named can and many have put armed guards/security in place. I have no problem knowing that if I go to a mall chances are they have armed security in the building, or off duty LEO's. At local hospital's in my area there are armed security officers in the building, doesn't bug me at all. Parks usually have beat cops that routinely are in the area. The only amusement parks I've been (6 Flags, Disney on both coasts) have armed security on hand.

I know some folks are completely out of touch with reality, but do they really not know that hospitals, parks, private offices, large shopping complexes and amusement parks have, for years now, had private and public armed security and law enforcement officers on premises on a regular basis?

I can't even remember the last time I went into a hospital and didn't see a command post with an armed LEO near the main entrance. And I live in the midwest.

Originally Posted by willardhaven You zeroed in on the specific case[...]

...that was given in the post directly before yours. Weird how that works.

Beyond all that, you're the one who chose to use quotation marks around the word conservative, as if you were implying something regarding the definition or application of the word.

Originally Posted by UncleBob ...that was given in the post directly before yours. Weird how that works. Beyond all that, you're the one who chose to use quotation marks around the word conservative, as if you were implying something regarding the definition or application of the word.

So what are you even arguing? I was asserting that they're not conservative despite the fact that they are classified as such. You argued that they leaned toward Obama so they weren't conservative. I proved that your argument was not in observation of voting records and party enrollment. You then went back to "well they're not really conservative". I agree as that was my original point. What do you want from my life?

Originally Posted by perdition(troy I have armed security personal in my workplace, so that doesn't bother me (to the poster before RvB). RvB, those private sector companies/businesses that you named can and many have put armed guards/security in place. I have no problem knowing that if I go to a mall chances are they have armed security in the building, or off duty LEO's. At local hospital's in my area there are armed security officers in the building, doesn't bug me at all. Parks usually have beat cops that routinely are in the area. The only amusement parks I've been (6 Flags, Disney on both coasts) have armed security on hand. In a school, the same people regulate the guards and training they need that regulate the rest of the school, local communities and states. The military type power already exists.

I have no idea where you live but I don't think I've ever seen armed guards posted at the places I mention. I will admit there are many hospitals that have armed guards, but not all of them do. At any rate, many of the armed security you mentioned involved on/off duty police officers, who are government agents, once again begging the question, if you're increasing the number of government actors/agents in an area with guns isn't that the precise type of conduct which many conservatives/republicans point to as being the idea which the 2nd amendment is protecting from in the first place?

As for "beat cops routinely are in the area" how is that different than the protection afforded to schools. One could easily say that there are cops routinely in the area of a school at this point already, no?

Originally Posted by willardhaven I love that "conservatives" want armed guards posted in schools. You can't make this shit up.

Why do you think it is a bad idea? Some schools already have police officers on the premises like colleges and universities. I do not agree nor disagree with the idea because I am not too familiar with it.

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Wow, saw the Daily Show segment on the ATF. I thought the USPS was ed so much by Congress, but this takes the cake. The government can't monitor sales of dangerous weapons, have sellers keep records, or even do routine inspections. And yet, the other agencies have been given the right to regulate everything not as lethal under the sun. Kinder EGGS!

And holy ! If someone get stoned and drunk, they can still buy a gun!

Originally Posted by detectiveconan16 Wow, saw the Daily Show segment on the ATF. I thought the USPS was ed so much by Congress, but this takes the cake. The government can't monitor sales of dangerous weapons, have sellers keep records, or even do routine inspections. And yet, the other agencies have been given the right to regulate everything not as lethal under the sun. Kinder EGGS! And holy ! If someone get stoned and drunk, they can still buy a gun!

Yeah. That was one of the better Jon Stewart segments on the Daily Show in the past few months. Usually I don't find him humorous (I do like the other people of his team, though), but that was pretty interesting.

Originally Posted by detectiveconan16 Wow, saw the Daily Show segment on the ATF. I thought the USPS was ed so much by Congress, but this takes the cake. The government can't monitor sales of dangerous weapons, have sellers keep records, or even do routine inspections. And yet, the other agencies have been given the right to regulate everything not as lethal under the sun. Kinder EGGS! And holy ! If someone get stoned and drunk, they can still buy a gun!

And thanks to the NRA and their republican lackeys, the director of the ATF now has to be confirmed by the senate. That's why there hasn't been one for years.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ork&id=8958116

State Senator Eric Adams, a former NYPD Captain, told us he's going to push for an amendment next week to exempt police officers from the high-capacity magazine ban. In his words, "You can't give more ammo to the criminals"

I love that they realize that the law will do nothing to stop criminals from getting the weapons they want even though the mags are banned and still pass it, taking the magazines away from law abiding citizens.

Part of this "arms race" mentality doesn't help matters, though.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1830007.html

I'm sure most of us remember this incident - a focus on firearm training (improving aim at the very least) would certainly be more useful for officers than more bullets. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with officers with that kind of poor accuracy having more bullets.

LOL..... giving the cops more ammo then the citizens..

Well our dystopian police state society is coming pretty soon.

Last I heard in the news there was hundreds of police abuse/brutality cases

and in many parts of America, cops actually can get away with robbery on some people

If the cops could barely operate in a situation in a crowded city like New York, I'm supposed to believe that a "responsible gun owner" could save innocent civilians in a crisis. Life isn't a movie or video game, life is hell. I do agree that the cops could do better with more firearms training, but they may need more in other areas like unarmed combat and conflict resolution, among many things.

Half the gun owners (half is being kind) in this country seem to think they're Wyatt Earp and they're going to stop the bad guys. If people with extensive firearms training still make mistakes, you think I want some random gun owner trying to be a hero? Fuuuuuck no.

Originally Posted by Clak Half the gun owners (half is being kind) in this country seem to think they're Wyatt Earp and they're going to stop the bad guys. If people with extensive firearms training still make mistakes, you think I want some random gun owner trying to be a hero? Fuuuuuck no.

Extensive firearms training? Most departments train just twice a year. Give me a break. I know civilians who train way more than that.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/arc...hp/t-9835.html

You know, we're completely failing to address another aspect of these shootings which more guns or armed guards won't solve. There's the simple fact that most of these people committing these mass shootings want to die anyway. A person with nothing left to live for, actually desiring death is not going to be deterred by an armed guard.

Originally Posted by RedvsBlue You know, we're completely failing to address another aspect of these shootings which more guns or armed guards won't solve. There's the simple fact that most of these people committing these mass shootings want to die anyway. A person with nothing left to live for, actually desiring death is not going to be deterred by an armed guard.

Well, mass shootings shouldn't be the emphasis of new legislature anyway. Much of the gun violence is not from mass shootings. Mass shootings get disproportionate attention, which would be fine as a forceful reminder of the actual problems if people would step back and view gun violence as a whole instead of focusing on these much rarer instances.

Originally Posted by ID2006 Well, mass shootings shouldn't be the emphasis of new legislature anyway. Much of the gun violence is not from mass shootings. Mass shootings get disproportionate attention, which would be fine as a forceful reminder of the actual problems if people would step back and view gun violence as a whole instead of focusing on these much rarer instances.

The same disproportionate attention that the news media gives to it creating in the minds of troubled individuals that they can become infamous by staging their own mass shooting...

I hope this becomes a regular media focus. Not that I think it necessarily means much but rather I would be interested in knowing how often these things happen.

Gun Show Shootings: At Least 5 Hurt In Accidental Incidents In Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2513057.html

"At the Dixie Gun and Knife Show in Raleigh, a 12-gauge shotgun discharged as its owner unzipped its case for a law enforcement officer to check at a security entrance, injuring three people, state Agriculture Department spokesman Brian Long said.

Two bystanders were hit by shotgun pellets and taken to a hospital. A retired deputy sheriff suffered a slight hand injury.

The shotgun's owner, 36-year-old Gary Lynn Wilson, brought the weapon to the show to find a private buyer, Long said. Sheriff Donnie Harrison said that it was too early to know whether Wilson might be charged but that it appeared to be an accident."

Accident or not you show up with a loaded gun and someone gets shot I think some type of endangerment charge needs to be levied. If we want to be serious about responsible gun ownership people who mess up like this should be charged.