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Originally Posted by Wolfkin I may be stepping into a fight I know nothing about but if you think an FPS actually needs all those buttons you crazy.

Just pointing out that the Wii controller is limited and comparing "AAA" titles like Resistance, Halo, and Call of Duty. You can not have an experience like any of those using a Wii controller scheme. I do not play my wii, but the games I have played the - and + buttons where never used, but I still added them to make six buttons.

If you wanted to create the FPS of your dreams, would you create it on the Wii? Or would you want to be able to have more access of controls and not take out grenades or dashing to help make your game the best FPS ever? Than again, this is the big Line that Nintendo is drawing from Casual gamers to hardcore and they are holding the industry back and not revolutionizing it. They are just like Atari with how much garbage they have on their console with zero to no quality control wich is flooding the market, and now I have to have discussions like this because Nintendo is always behind the current video game trends.

Oh on...the download link is dead and I haven't even got my show yet. :(

Originally Posted by Davestation When you take the wii mote and aim it you have to look and figure out where on the screen your cross hair is. Than you have to move it and keep it very steady while you aim and than shoot. This is much easier done with analog and just the simple movement of your thumb instead of your whole arm.

Ignorance is bliss. You don't use your whole arm. Anyone that has put some time into the Wii knows this. How do you use your TV remote? Do you stick your arm straight out in the air and aim it at the TV every time you want to change a channel?

Ironically it seems the same crowd that says, "oh you can just flick your wrist in WiiSports instead of doing the full motions" also thinks you have to hold your arm straight out in the air in order to aim at the screen.

Can we bury this wiimote myth yet? Bueller?

Originally Posted by Davestation If you check your history, the first controller to actually use analog stick was the Atari 5200 in the form of their joystick. Nintendo was first to use it for 3-D games, though Sega also used a simular controller on their Sega Saturn Knights into Dreams that was in development at the exact same time. Sony only revolutionized the concept with coming out with two analog sticks. Nintendo copied this on the Gamecube by adding the C-stick, even Microsoft uses this same technology. The first game to make you use the dual analog controllers was Ape Escape for the PS1. The first FPS game ever to use the dual analogs was Timesplitters for the PS2, wich had many of the same developers from Rare that worked on 007 Goldeneye for the N64.

You're missing the point. The point wasn't to debate the exact history of game controllers, but to show that superior control technology is often independent of success at least at first. You've just backed me up there whether you realize it or not.

Again there are lots of factors of why the best fps games aren't on the Wii. The wiimote isn't on that list of factors from what I can tell. I don't believe developers are saying, "the wiimote has that pointing functionality so we're not going to bring our fps games to the Wii."

Originally Posted by Davestation Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller.

Again you're missing the point. I believe I said "pointing functionality is greater than the analog stick for aiming and shooting." You can debate the button counts with yourself if you want. I'm pretty sure the wiimote isn't the end all be all for controllers and will be improved upon in the future. And, again, I don't believe developers are saying, "we're not bringing our fps games to the Wii because of that darn pointing functionality present in the wiimote."

Originally Posted by Davestation No an analgog and joystick are more accurate. You do not see the Army using motion sensor technology to drop bombs on Iraq, they use joysticks because like an analog you can steadily keep aim on a target with ease unlike holding your arm up, if you need something to rest your arm while you play that is not the most efficient.

That's a terrible analogy. Do soldiers aim their M16s (or whatever they use now) with joysticks? I thought they still point and shoot. If the army wanted to shoot virtual human targets on a virtual screen in their living room they would use a wiimote instead of a joystick. It's faster and more accurate.

Originally Posted by Davestation Who's Samantha? Why do you need to keep bibs ready. I bet that Sabrina* can kick your ass in games in about six years... *I thought Wombats offspring was named after a teenage witch, I am not as good of a stalker as I used to be so I may be wrong.

Ok wrong witch. My middle name is Cheapie.

Originally Posted by Wombat Because without any added support, like a desk or all being attached to one piece like a game pad a left handed person can not aim well using their right hand/arm on the Wii-mote. Even for a right handed person, it is shaky and clumsy, an analog stick takes out the shakyiness of a person's arm as does a mouse. That is why both are better then the Wii-mote.

I'm left-handed as well and I don't have any fatigue issues.. i guess it's just personal preference. the closest to being "good" at a shooting game on a dual analog I ever got was Stranglehold, and it still took me a few hours before i stopped spraying the walls with shells. Metroid Prime 3 on Wii came to me much more naturally-and I'm not saying it's perfect- but at least I was pretty accurate within 5 or 10 minutes.

Generally though- I don't even consider FPS games unless they're on a PC or I pick them up really cheap.

Originally Posted by Davestation If you wanted to create the FPS of your dreams, would you create it on the Wii?

while I personally would consider it debatable, my point was that just because it's not the best FPS ever of your dreams doesn't mean it can't be good. Doesn't mean it can't be VERY good. I mean in theory the best mech game ever should have been Steel Battalion (40+ buttons), the two lessons we learned there is that a) never jump ahead 20 more buttons than people are used to and b) more buttons doesn't make it better

Hey Wombat, I feel I need to infrom you. There is already a term that describes your time bullets. Its called Alien Sapce Bat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_space_bats
Example of the term: To debunk the possibility of a successful Operation Sealion by saying the only way it could be successful was if alien space bats helped the Nazis

Spencer Pratt is definitely a douche.

About the DLC debate, do you think if you pre-order a game that you should get free DLC for life? A one time DLC purchase or what?

This question spawns from what Cheapy said. As he exclaimed that he hated the pre-order bonuses given from Gamestop.

So where do your loyalties lie? Also, what about games with limited editions? BAA states you get DLC pack 1 w/ le purchase.

I watched the beginning of a Smallville episode once not knowing what it was. I honestly thought it was some shitty teen drama, such as the New 90210 or One Tree Hill, etc...

the show was a train wreck and i couldnt look away...then a reporter named Lois started talking to a guy named Clark and i realized what i was watching

im glad Wombat recognizes that Smallville is a guilty pleasure and not a good show. (from what ive gathered)

i'm listening to this episode right now and as for the rumor of the huge xbox 360 hard drive i have read in the sarcasticgamer.com forums that the size of it is 1 terabyte! who in the hell plays games that much???