I actually never had a problem with Paypal freezing my funds, but I've heard about this countless of times. Where you either have to wait for the buyer to give you a positive feedback or wait 21 days. Many buyers don't even give feedback after they buy.

And it's quite flawed really, because these people can use the item, wait up to two weeks, and then finally decide they don't "like it" and go into a whole different route and say they want their money back for so and so reasons.

This is rather a bad example, but it's like if I went to Best Buy, bought some iPod and told them, "Look, you know what? I'll take it home, see if I like it, if I do I'll come back and pay." That money isn't YOURS until Paypal releases the funds to you.

From what I've read, as long as you meet certain requirements, such as 100 feedback rating, a higher than 4.8 DSR rating, or etc. Your funds do not get frozen and you can use them.

However, unlike a bank, Paypal is NOT covered by the FDIC. Something happens to the company, I believe you are screwed.

Originally Posted by kurrptsenate 50 feedback and a member for 4 years, yea, you know what you're talking about

I don't follow you. I haven't 50 feedback on any site. 39 here on CAG, and 600+ on Ebay (member since '99). Or were you talking about someone else? You have 3 more feedback than me here and joined only a few months later. What's your point?

i'm amazed at your inability to follow my previous post

either way, i'm done

I don't know; I found it confusing. You mentioned "50 feedback" and I wondered to what you were referring. If you're bowing out of the conversation, I guess it doesn't matter either way.

Originally Posted by kurrptsenate i'm amazed at your inability to follow my previous post either way, i'm done

Nice cover.

Also, before you pull the vet card, you should make certain they aren't in pretty much the same boat as you.

Sigh... this whole thing just shows that corporates really have nothing else to do than going after small stuff.
One day ebay/paypal won't be able to play this monopoly game anymore, b/c some1 is going to step up. Getting really sick and tired of these raising fee crap and the favoring buyers shit they do. But until that day comes, I will try and follow their rule.

Whomever you heard all of this information from didn't really do you any favors.

(1) Paypal ONLY freezes your fees when you are a new user or when there is a problem somewhere along the way (such as you not being a 'verified' member). They don't just 'freeze' your funds for no reason. They freeze your funds when you are a new user in order to ensure that the other party (your buyer) actually does receive something in the mail. There used to be a time when people would open up Paypal accounts, sell thousands of dollars of items on Ebay, then never send anything out. By doing what Paypal does now (freeze funds in new accounts until positive feedback is received), they have pretty much put a stop to this. Again, it's not Paypal's fault that people rip other people off. At least they are trying to remedy the situation. You can always remind your buyer to leave you feedback...usually they do.

You don't need 100 positive ratings to have your funds "unfrozen". The DSR rating is something that Ebay uses, not Paypal. Once your buyer leaves positive feedback for you, your funds get unfrozen. Again, this is only valid when you are a new user and have proven yourself to be trustworthy.

You run the risk of a credit card chargeback EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU SELL SOMETHING. If a buyer decides that they don't like the item, they can file a complaint. As I stated previously, this is not Paypal's fault. They're not the ones that initiate refunds to buyers--the buyers do! Paypal is not in the business of selling/auctioning, they're just a payment processing center.

Why people keep blaming Paypal for things that buyers do is beyond my comprehension. Paypal is just a tool for people to send money to one another, they're not the ones that make people do the things that people do. If a buyer is going to screw you over, there's really not much anybody can do about it. If a buyer can't get his money back through Paypal, they WILL do a credit card reversal and they WILL get it--nothing you can do about it.

And finally, Paypal is FDIC-insured. They pass their funds through a bank that is FDIC insured, so, YES, they ARE FDIC-insured. Paypal will NEVER just "close their doors" and walk away with your money.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...t/general/FDIC

All it takes is a little research, folks. You can't always trust what your friends tell you as being the truth. If a person gets burned, of course their judgment is going to get biased.

Originally Posted by Aenzo I actually never had a problem with Paypal freezing my funds, but I've heard about this countless of times. Where you either have to wait for the buyer to give you a positive feedback or wait 21 days. Many buyers don't even give feedback after they buy. And it's quite flawed really, because these people can use the item, wait up to two weeks, and then finally decide they don't "like it" and go into a whole different route and say they want their money back for so and so reasons. This is rather a bad example, but it's like if I went to Best Buy, bought some iPod and told them, "Look, you know what? I'll take it home, see if I like it, if I do I'll come back and pay." That money isn't YOURS until Paypal releases the funds to you. From what I've read, as long as you meet certain requirements, such as 100 feedback rating, a higher than 4.8 DSR rating, or etc. Your funds do not get frozen and you can use them. However, unlike a bank, Paypal is NOT covered by the FDIC. Something happens to the company, I believe you are screwed.

Well this is interesting. After a two month wait, I finally have $140 available for withdrawal from Bing cashback. They gave me the option of sending it to my PayPal account or through Amazon Payments. I'd like all of my "online funds" in one account but this is pretty tempting.

Being able to use it at Amazon's store is all I want but it looks like a number of merchants also hopped on the bandwagon like Buy and J&R.

Originally Posted by dinobot Sigh... this whole thing just shows that corporates really have nothing else to do than going after small stuff. One day ebay/paypal won't be able to play this monopoly game anymore, b/c some1 is going to step up. Getting really sick and tired of these raising fee crap and the favoring buyers *** they do. But until that day comes, I will try and follow their rule.

I'm looking forward to somebody else jumping into the fray as well. Amazon Payments is a great alternative that is available now. To push that further, auctions.amazon.com is a domain that will take you to a new login feature (which does not currently accept your existing Amazon information).

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I've contacted both Paypal and Steam about the gift payment and gifting of games (Steam has a thing about extra copies not being able to be sold).

Paypal

Thank you for contacting PayPal. Hi, my name is Sonny. I appreciate you sending us an email regarding your concern and I will be happy to assist you with your questions. Let me explain this further. Since the payments are coming from your friends, it is perfectly fine to receive Personal payments. As long as the sender initiates the Personal payment, you do not have to worry about your account because there will be no restrictions. Thanks for sharing your concerns with us. We value what you have to say. If you have time, you can learn more about using PayPal by visiting www.paypal.com/101. Sincerely, Sonny PayPal Consumer Support PayPal, an eBay Company Original Message Follows: ------------------------ Form Message customer subject: Does this qualify for use of personal payments? customer message: Additional Information: 'I play lots of games on Steam and they have these 4-pack deals where you buy a game and it gives you one and 3 others to send to friends. I've been the one doing the up front purchase and they've been using Paypal Personal Payments to send the money they owe me for their part. Is that a use that qualifies for personal payments? I don't want to get my account or theirs locked out for improper use so before we do another one I wanted to get verification.'

Steam

I finally got a reply back from Steam: Hello Josh, Thank you for contacting Steam Support. This rule in the subscriber agreement is meant to prevent the abuse of this gifting system (i.e. user purchases a "copy" of left 4 dead from an online auction and instead gets a gift pass). We understand that friends or groups of people often go-in on four packs of subscriptions and will not automatically disable any of your accounts for it. If you have any further questions, please let us know - we will be happy to assist you.

Well, this topic seems to discourage lowball sales in my mind.

Thank you for taking the time to check with Paypal and Steam, jp0213. Good fact to know that they consider Steam 4-packs to be worthy of Personal payments for "repayment" of the purchaser's copies of the game.

I think gameshares would probably work the same way to Paypal, since it's the same analogy of the up-front purchase of an item and the "repayment" to cover the share of the item, like the "repayment of lunch debt" analogy Paypal themselves use.

Originally Posted by hero101 Well, this topic seems to discourage lowball sales in my mind.

Paypal isn't the only payment method around. Other CAGs are starting to try out Amazon Payments and see how it'll work in comparison to Paypal.

Originally Posted by jp0213 I've contacted both Paypal and Steam about the gift payment and gifting of games (Steam has a thing about extra copies not being able to be sold).

I don't know anything about Steam so I have no comment on that, but your e-mail to Paypal didn't ever mention your friends sending the money to you as a gift payment, which is what's being questioned here. Don't the other personal payment options (like "payment owed") involve some sort of fee? If not, then ignore the following:

I think the vague wording may have resulted in the response you got, but heck, maybe Paypal really doesn't care (although that would surprise me). Calling the money you receive a "payment" is completely different from receiving a gift.

If Paypal really did sign off on gift payments though, that's great news.

I'm pretty sure all personal payments do not have a charge. From their site:

It is free to send a Personal Payment to someone in the United States if you use your bank or balance as the exclusive Payment Method*. All other Personal Payments include a fee as noted below.

Sending or Receiving Money Free
When Payment Method is exclusively:
-PayPal Balance, and/or
-Bank account

2.9% + $0.30 USD
When Payment Method is:
-Credit Card
-Debit Card
-PayPal Credit
-or partially funded by PayPal Balance or Bank account
Either the sender or recipient pays the fee. Not both. The sender decides who pays this fee

Thanks for that, jp0213. Good to see Paypal being reasonable for once!

Originally Posted by bvharris I understand where he is coming from though. The heaviest impact of this does fall on people who are having lowball auctions, and since that currently includes me as well I'm not unsympathetic to what he's saying. In my eyes, as long as I am providing other fee-free means by which a seller can pay for an item (Amazon Payments, Amazon GC, Concealed cash) then it's not unreasonable to ask the buyer to cover the fees if they choose to use paypal as a payment. I am not at all saying I'm going to ignore what shrike is saying, if this is the rule now than of course I am going to follow it. In the end, I think this is going to cause more trouble than it solves. If there's any group of people who are going to get hot and bothered over who pays seventy five cents, it's CAGs. I don't envy saetia having to deal with people on that, especially since he is a relatively new trader having such a high-volume sale.

For lowball seller's just put the cost in the shipping total. Unfortunately, as seller's paypal is a necessary evil. They provide a convenience and as such deserve a fee. The biggest amount of hate for paypal has come about since they were acquired by ebay.

Originally Posted by GraftonWVDiskExchang Allyourblood, I was trying to say the same thing, albeit in a different way. It didn't come out sounding quite as nice as it did when you stated the same thing though. Sure, I have only 1 trade feedback so far, but I did join this site to befriend other people and trade games also. Somebody ALWAYS brings up a sore subject, and manages to stir up a hornet's nest in the process. I'm usually that somebody :-) I have a tendency to put words down on paper the wrong way...which irks some people (as was well displayed previously in this thread LOL). At least I know my writings get noticed and people do think about what I write. They may not agree with what I say, but oh well. I'm just glad that I'm not the only one that agrees that if a person uses a company's services, that they should pay for them...whether you like the company or not. I have seen Paypal completely shut off their services to companies/sites that they think aren't enforcing their policies. I would really hate for that to happen to CAG. Sure, people have a "right" to charge what they want to, but others have rights also (such as the right not to pay somebody else's fees), as do companies that have a right to profit from the products that they produce.

Seller's can include this cost in their price. They just can't discount for alternative payments. As buyer's we pay the fees. Some buyer's just don't realize what their payment covers.

Originally Posted by kurrptsenate paypal operates like a bank. if you don't believe this, than you are pretty darn naive

Exactly!

Originally Posted by kurrptsenate and again, as I said before, it's a necessary evil to deal with this company. honestly though, it's impossible for me to be sympathetic to their "situation"

Yea, their seller's protection pretty much sucks if the stories you read are true. Their buyer's protection is pretty damn good, really good for scammers!


Just realized a no fee method to move funds, Considering the demographics of this site it is probably safe to say many play online poker. If so you can send funds to other members on many of the sites. Just something to consider for those looking at alternatives.

Originally Posted by rmb Seller's can include this cost in their price. They just can't discount for alternative payments. As buyer's we pay the fees. Some buyer's just don't realize what their payment covers.

Actually I think specifically we're not supposed to do this. That's what most would call a surcharge. I like the idea of just bumping up the shipping price a dollar or two to help cover the fees (of course that means non-Paypal payers get burned too though).

People are still gonna be gifting >.> just wont be saying it.

People make bootleg copies of games even though they're not supposed to.

I'm just asking - doesn't the wording in the PP UA suggest that asking the buyer to pay the PP fees is acceptable? I read it as though you cannot force them to pay the fees, which is obviously the case here. I don't take that to mean that I can't ask/request that the buyer pays, though. I just have to hope that they actually will.

Yes? No?