I think the problem is the amount of resources/effort you need to counter rays
that guy in the video was about to mass queens because he saw rays
just like running away from mass Raven missiles is a lot of micro work
it's a lot easier to spam missiles on a bunch of units than it is to select those units to run away

Originally Posted by dcm1602 Ah yeah they are 3 supply not 2. So its 250minerals and 150 gas 3 supply for 1 VR, vs 350 minerals 75 gas 6 supply for their counter. Maybe its just me but id gladly sacrifice a little gas to save on all the supply cap. I mean im really not going to whine about VRs much since I play protoss, but theres no doubt in my mind theyre definitely the best unit in the game and by a significant margin. And if their best counter requires the other guy to have twice as many units as you, well thats not much of a counter in my opinion.

if we go to BW, TvZ standard, there's a point in the game where zerg has 1100 mins, 1100 gas, 22 supply. (mutalisk harass).

To stall it, you need turrets (75 minerals each) a ton of marine medic, stim. To fully counter it you need irradiate, which requires factory/port.

Granted, I can't beat VRs but I would rather try to stop it than to force balance changes.

Well I think the eventual change were going to see with VRs is reducing their min damage,and increasing their max damage. So that theyll still fill the exact same role of having their damage increase with time, and theyll still be JUST as effective as taking out bigger units/buildings (ie keeping roughly the same average damage).

And this would solve the issue of them decimating weak units which is supposed to be their counter.

Phase 1 beta ends May 31st. To be returning weeks after.

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...43027&sid=5000

Originally Posted by KhaosX Phase 1 beta ends May 31st. To be returning weeks after. http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...43027&sid=5000

Oh bother. Just when I got some decent achievements, they will be lost forever.

I'm gone tomorrow, folks. Be back August.

Someone wants to make a thread for SC2 now, go ahead.

Originally Posted by TravistyOJ Oh bother. Just when I got some decent achievements, they will be lost forever.

So we loose our achievements?

What is the point in that? To make some changes and then open it back up?

Originally Posted by JolietJake What is the point in that? To make some changes and then open it back up?

I'm thinking what they create once this initial phase ends will be the shipped game, then they will open it back up with the shipped game settings, allowing time to create a day one patch to fix any balance/general issues that will be in the game.

Facebook integration most likely and to test a live launch scenario.

Has anyone gotten the voice chat to work?

Originally Posted by Mag215 So we loose our achievements?

eventually, yes. It was sort of given that everything would be wiped before the game's actual release

somehow i'm still playing at 100 APM.
if i really try i can play at 120. but it's mostly 70-90.

I have no interest in learning what my APM is in SC2.. i still think it's a somewhat pointless metric in this game. I see people trying to jack up their APM by adding a lot of useless clicks, while I just play the game and do the extra movements when required.

I'm sure there are a lot of worse players than me with vastly superior APMs.

I get that the idea is you're paying a lot of attention to your game, but if you set your units to move or attack right the first time you don't necessarily need to divert them a million times like I see people doing to try to inflate that metric... good use of hotkeys and control groups make micromanagement of groups AND maintaining unit production a hell of a lot easier than in the first game.

I see people overmicro a lot in this game because they're too worried about some phantom statistic that says how 'good' they are. Just because someone gives a move order 47 times in a minute rather than the one time that is necessary doesn't make them a better player.

In SC1 i think it was more important because group movement and controls, along with peon management were factored into the value. In SC2, much of the tedium (that required the extra clicks) is automated brilliantly.

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest eventually, yes. It was sort of given that everything would be wiped before the game's actual release

I still wonder about the 'beta' specific achievements - such as "I'm loving the beta" and "Beta Crusher".

Because they are specific to the beta, I really wonder if there'll be some code, or carryover to the final release. There hasn't been anything official about any of that, but I still wonder.

I could have sworn that after one of the more recent wipes that the 'I'm loving the beta' achievement was already unlocked when I recreated my identical character. We'll see when the final game comes out though!
Another thought is that Blizzard is keeping track of who gets the achievements. People who unlocked more of the achivements were more active in the beta. Perhaps they'll give priority to the active players in future testing.

The only other option is that those were just for fun, and will go away forever. While it is the most likely reason, I'd like to hope that they served some kind of purpose.

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Originally Posted by BattleChicken I have no interest in learning what my APM is in SC2.. i still think it's a somewhat pointless metric in this game. I see people trying to jack up their APM by adding a lot of useless clicks, while I just play the game and do the extra movements when required. I'm sure there are a lot of worse players than me with vastly superior APMs.

To me APM is like the 40-yard dash at the NFL scouting combine. It's a raw number that's somewhat useful.

My micro and early game play need a lot of work. But when the game kicks in the mid-late game, my ability to macro and manage multiple bases (which manifests itself in APM) usually gives me a huge advantage.

My APM rises as the game goes on, not the other way around like all those spammers. It's always fun to watch a game and see someone hit 180 APM in the beginning and bottom out to 60 average in the end.

Its a good way to warm up I guess. A person who just apm spams will react better to a rush 3 minutes into the game as opposed to one who doesn't. But it seems to me as the game draws out, there really isn't much of an advantage.

Originally Posted by kainzero To me APM is like the 40-yard dash at the NFL scouting combine. It's a raw number that's somewhat useful. My micro and early game play need a lot of work. But when the game kicks in the mid-late game, my ability to macro and manage multiple bases (which manifests itself in APM) usually gives me a huge advantage. My APM rises as the game goes on, not the other way around like all those spammers. It's always fun to watch a game and see someone hit 180 APM in the beginning and bottom out to 60 average in the end.

That seems logical enough. The modernizations in SC2 absolutely made the necessity of the mad clicking LESS important.. the ability to queue at multiple buildings, set rally points for multiple buildings at once, and setting peons to minerals/gas automatically seriously reduced the number of required clicks to be good compared to Starcraft, where you had to eagle-eye every peon pop to make sure you were being efficient.

The simple modernizations in SC2 are the things I like most about it.. I can focus on the strategy rather than the logistics of managing a base. I still find I do a bit of clicking when micromanaging or during the initial base builds, but SC2 is a WAY less punishing game than SC1 ever was.

whew.. just ordered almost $900 worth of parts to slap together for this game (and others). hope it's worth it. guess i'm a bit late joining the party it seems.

Technically it's much easier to micro and macro in SC2, but SC2 is much faster-paced than BW, so APM will matter eventually (once people start to actually figure the game out)