To add to the Steam vs Gamestop thing. They're only competitors in the digital PC game selling realm. Gamestop has a store and Steam has a store for that.

Steam will probably never ever sell console games because I doubt Sony or Microsoft want to share profits with Valve. And it's not like Steam offers much benefit over PSN/Xbox Live for game downloading.

Why, it looks like Castlevania may have your favoritest thing in the world: paid DLC that is potentially built into the original download.
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/0...levania-leaks/

Originally Posted by Microshock To add to the Steam vs Gamestop thing. They're only competitors in the digital PC game selling realm. Gamestop has a store and Steam has a store for that. Steam will probably never ever sell console games because I doubt Sony or Microsoft want to share profits with Valve. And it's not like Steam offers much benefit over PSN/Xbox Live for game downloading.

Steam's stance on digital distribution totally trounces that of PSN and XBLM. When you buy a game on steam it's yours and truly is yours. You can go to your friends house and just log into your steam account and then have access to all your games. The Steam model of digital distribution is the future. I think it's perfect.

Xbox and PSN will do better when they stop charging for the novelty of downloading a video game. Not to mention there isn't enough competition with the PSN and XBLM games because so many of them are exclusives. Steam is more than competitive with their pricing because they compete with every other retailer that sells PC games.

Originally Posted by Cao Cao Why, it looks like Castlevania may have your favoritest thing in the world: paid DLC that is potentially built into the original download. http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/0...levania-leaks/

You know, 4MB really isn't that small considering this is a 2D game. Small would be KB. Like in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion when you were downloading whole quest sets and hide outs at like 72kb. Now that's bull shit.

Originally Posted by RichMeisterMan Steam's stance on digital distribution totally trounces that of PSN and XBLM. When you buy a game on steam it's yours and truly is yours. You can go to your friends house and just log into your steam account and then have access to all your games. The Steam model of digital distribution is the future. I think it's perfect. Xbox and PSN will do better when they stop charging for the novelty of downloading a video game. Not to mention there isn't enough competition with the PSN and XBLM games because so many of them are exclusives. Steam is more than competitive with their pricing because they compete with every other retailer that sells PC games. You know, 4MB really isn't that small considering this is a 2D game. Small would be KB. Like in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion when you were downloading whole quest sets and hide outs at like 72kb. Now that's bull shit.

Yeah it'd be perfect if when you bought a game on Steam, you could sell the license, trade the license or just give away the license.

But you can't. So that makes it imperfect. The lack of a box, manual and disc also affects stuff.

Originally Posted by Microshock Yeah it'd be perfect if when you bought a game on Steam, you could sell the license, trade the license or just give away the license. But you can't. So that makes it imperfect. The lack of a box, manual and disc also affects stuff.

No one is ever going to offer you a transferable license for things you buy digitally. It's just not going to happen.

A box manual or disc? Really? The value of a game is in the content. Not the box, manual or physical disc. Not to mention that's stuff that gets lost and scratched. The conveinience of steam more than makes up for the lack of a physical game/disc/case/manual. At one point I used to be all wrapped up in having that stuff. Then I got Steam, and I don't buy PC games at the store and I try not to buy them anywhere but steam because it's convenient to have all your PC games in one easy place that has a universal friends list.

Are you even a steam user? You should try it before you knock it. Because in the end it's the deals that are the biggest draw. There are constantly great deals on great games.

Originally Posted by RichMeisterMan No one is ever going to offer you a transferable license for things you buy digitally. It's just not going to happen. A box manual or disc? Really? The value of a game is in the content. Not the box, manual or physical disc. Not to mention that's stuff that gets lost and scratched. The conveinience of steam more than makes up for the lack of a physical game/disc/case/manual. At one point I used to be all wrapped up in having that stuff. Then I got Steam, and I don't buy PC games at the store and I try not to buy them anywhere but steam because it's convenient to have all your PC games in one easy place that has a universal friends list. Are you even a steam user? You should try it before you knock it. Because in the end it's the deals that are the biggest draw. There are constantly great deals on great games.

Please don't try to sell me on Steam. I've been a member for a while and have over 40 games on it.
It doesn't mean it's a perfect program. If you buy a license, IT SHOULD BE transferable. I mean it is your license. Also, if you buy duplicates of a game, they don't even give you an extra copy of it most of the time. Such cases happens when you buy bundles on sale. It's ridiculous.

Yeah go down to a store or a person and try to sell your "content" without a disc, box or a manual. There's value in physical media and people shopping exclusively digital are too shortsighted to see what will happen if all of it disappears. Certainly not in CheapyD's best interest either.

So until digital content has just as much value as physical media does, Steam is not perfect. It's nice and all. It's my only choice for playing CS:S and TF2. But I stopped buying from there after I bought Killing Floor and it was total garbage and I can't do ANYTHING with it.

Originally Posted by Microshock So until digital content has just as much value as physical media does, Steam is not perfect. It's nice and all. It's my only choice for playing CS:S and TF2. But I stopped buying from there after I bought Killing Floor and it was total garbage and I can't do ANYTHING with it.

Wait how is digital content ever going to have the same value as physical media? What could a virtual product possibly do extra to have the same value as a game, box, and manual you can physically hold and touch? They aren't the same things and never will be. There are people out there who really like to have physical media and don't like digital downloads as much and thats fine. But with the expansion of broadband Internet across the world digital looks to be the future. I don't seem to hear as many people who watch movies digitally complain about this stuff as much as gamers do. If you don't like digital media now I don't think you ever will, what could be done to change your mind? I think it's the idea that gets most people, paying and owning something that isn't a physical thing you can see and touch turns some people off. There is no way digital downloads can rectify that problem, at least not that I can see.

Originally Posted by Microshock Please don't try to sell me on Steam. I've been a member for a while and have over 40 games on it. It doesn't mean it's a perfect program. If you buy a license, IT SHOULD BE transferable. I mean it is your license. Also, if you buy duplicates of a game, they don't even give you an extra copy of it most of the time. Such cases happens when you buy bundles on sale. It's ridiculous. Yeah go down to a store or a person and try to sell your "content" without a disc, box or a manual. There's value in physical media and people shopping exclusively digital are too shortsighted to see what will happen if all of it disappears. Certainly not in CheapyD's best interest either. So until digital content has just as much value as physical media does, Steam is not perfect. It's nice and all. It's my only choice for playing CS:S and TF2. But I stopped buying from there after I bought Killing Floor and it was total garbage and I can't do ANYTHING with it.

If you get a game that you already own via a pack or something you can gift the game. Or you can even sell/trade it here on CAG. So you do get an extra copy.

Is there some underground market for used PC games that I don't know about? Gamestop doesn't even take in PC games and DRM prevents resell from being a legitimate option over buying new. Even before the days of oppressive DRM you couldn't even return a PC game to most retailers for anything other than another copy of the same game due to pirating.

Of course it would be awesome if I could sell copies of games on STEAM that I don't play or want anymore, but it would also be awesome if I could walk onto a car lot get into any car I wanted and drive off the lot with it. Let's be realistic though. It's not like some other digital game service offers you the right to sell your games, and seeing as how we live in a world of greed no company is ever going to offer you that opportunity. And if it did ever happen it wouldn't be up to Steam it would be up to individual publishers.

I'm not talking about buying digital media on platforms with no competition; like XBLM and PSN. Buying their full xbox and playstation games digitally is a stupid move on virtually all fronts because you can usually buy those game new at the store for cheaper or with bonus content for just a tad more than what you will buy it for on their respective networks. Or you can pick it up used for oodles less than their digital price point.

In the case of the console buying digitally is absolutely a mistake. Considering that there's not much of a market for used PC games and Steam's competitive pricing though there are obvious advantaged to buying digitally and especially on Steam. Which while not meeting everyone's standard of "perfection" I think it's safe to say that it's one of the best digital distribution models there is right now and a damned good one at that.

Originally Posted by shipwreck Actually, we both did get free review codes for Castlevania HD. Our feelings are strictly on our time playing the game. There's little reason for me to feel like I should get loot when I've seen everything the game has to offer in an hour.

That is how Castlevania games plays, you level up your character to go beat the shit out of the boss. You get random luck drops and want to evolve and upgrade. So are you saying that you are not a fan of the series? I recall Wombat saying that, but if you play through the first level and eventually upgrade it makes the game easier. The only thing I do not like about it is the time limit, I would rather they give you a grade for how long it takes you to beat a level. The game is a blast with friends. Well, I am not going to say you are crazy for not liking the game but each their own. Also, the first boss is not cheap, if you took the other path you would not have to worry about being attacked by all the enemies when you fall beacuase you will defeat them on your way up there. I did that co-op with a friend and he took one way and I took the other and we where trying to get all the chests and stuff. It is by far my favorite LIVE game I have purchased, though I have yet to play Shadow Complex...

Great episode, guys. Cheapy's thought about Steam selling console games in the future got me pretty excited. A hub-like retailer with the support and selection of Steam for console games would be great.

And I agree with Ship and Wombat about Castlevania. Extremely dull.

Originally Posted by Davestation That is how Castlevania games plays, you level up your character to go beat the shit out of the boss. You get random luck drops and want to evolve and upgrade. So are you saying that you are not a fan of the series? I recall Wombat saying that, but if you play through the first level and eventually upgrade it makes the game easier. The only thing I do not like about it is the time limit, I would rather they give you a grade for how long it takes you to beat a level. The game is a blast with friends. Well, I am not going to say you are crazy for not liking the game but each their own. Also, the first boss is not cheap, if you took the other path you would not have to worry about being attacked by all the enemies when you fall beacuase you will defeat them on your way up there. I did that co-op with a friend and he took one way and I took the other and we where trying to get all the chests and stuff. It is by far my favorite LIVE game I have purchased, though I have yet to play Shadow Complex...

As per usual, I think you are insane. To clarify though, I think I've played and beaten every Castlevania game that has released in North America. Even the crappy 3D games. Harmony of Despair is crappier than the crappy 3D games. In closing, purchase more Live Arcade games. (And looking at the ones you have played, you are saying this is better than Symphony of the Night, Ikaruga, and Pac-Man C.E.)

He said favorite not better. You can have a favorite game without being the best.

Good show!

Originally Posted by shipwreck As per usual, I think you are insane. To clarify though, I think I've played and beaten every Castlevania game that has released in North America. Even the crappy 3D games. Harmony of Despair is crappier than the crappy 3D games. In closing, purchase more Live Arcade games. (And looking at the ones you have played, you are saying this is better than Symphony of the Night, Ikaruga, and Pac-Man C.E.)

Okay, I just was not aware of your status on the series. I just like that Konami found a way to integrate co-op in the Castlevania series. I have enjoyed all the 3D PS2 games, the N64 games where garbage. We just have different tastes and there is nothing wrong with that and I am not the type of asshole is going to say you are retarded for not liking a game.

You played it by yourself, you played it with friends and you did not like it. I was just trying to understand the exact history of you and the series. I am trying to figure out what kind of gamer you are. Do you like Mega Man? I am getting the assumption that you are not a fan of "Hard" games (i.e. Demon Souls) and you also made a point to say that Castlevania HoD was "Cheap". So if you are the type of guy that does not like "Cheap" or hard games I would understand why you do not like certain games better. I hate "Cheap" games but do not mind hard games. Demon Souls is awesome in my opinion, but many of my friends find it too hard or some say its "cheap". I just say that the game is hard, not cheap. Mario Kart is a cheap game in my opinion...

Also, Ikaruga, and Castlevania Symphony of the Night are ports and not Live originals (I was referring to original games). I have a few games that I have purchased but forgot I owned and have not gotten around to playing them. The only one that I am interested in is Castle Crashers, but I only have paid $15 for one Live game and that was for Castlevania HoD. I do not like Micro$oft$ 1200 point pricing for Digital Downloads. I went to Target today and I got Alone in the Dark for $4.98, You are in the movies (with shit camera) for $4.98, and Tekken 6 for $9.98. So for $5.00 more I got three games. So why would I want to go out and buy "Digital Copies" from Microsoft when they have the worst "Sales" in Digital Marketplace (I do not go and buy stuff on the Wii often, but I think they never have sales so I guess Microsoft has the second worse sales in digital downloads?). As a consumer I would rather spend money on itunes or PSN.

EDIT - Wombat is right, Steam is not a major competitor to Gamestop. Thats just like comparing one Pimp pimping females while another pimp pimps trans-sexuals, sure both pimps are offering sex but it is to different markets and different clientele.

Originally Posted by RichMeisterMan If you get a game that you already own via a pack or something you can gift the game. Or you can even sell/trade it here on CAG. So you do get an extra copy. Is there some underground market for used PC games that I don't know about? Gamestop doesn't even take in PC games and DRM prevents resell from being a legitimate option over buying new. Even before the days of oppressive DRM you couldn't even return a PC game to most retailers for anything other than another copy of the same game due to pirating. Of course it would be awesome if I could sell copies of games on STEAM that I don't play or want anymore, but it would also be awesome if I could walk onto a car lot get into any car I wanted and drive off the lot with it. Let's be realistic though. It's not like some other digital game service offers you the right to sell your games, and seeing as how we live in a world of greed no company is ever going to offer you that opportunity. And if it did ever happen it wouldn't be up to Steam it would be up to individual publishers. I'm not talking about buying digital media on platforms with no competition; like XBLM and PSN. Buying their full xbox and playstation games digitally is a stupid move on virtually all fronts because you can usually buy those game new at the store for cheaper or with bonus content for just a tad more than what you will buy it for on their respective networks. Or you can pick it up used for oodles less than their digital price point. In the case of the console buying digitally is absolutely a mistake. Considering that there's not much of a market for used PC games and Steam's competitive pricing though there are obvious advantaged to buying digitally and especially on Steam. Which while not meeting everyone's standard of "perfection" I think it's safe to say that it's one of the best digital distribution models there is right now and a damned good one at that.

www.greenmangaming.com
They let you trade in your digitally bought games.
Your problem is that you're so blinded by Steam's conveniences, is that you don't see their downsides. You said its PERFECT when its NOT.

If Steam sells you digital licenses, then I should be able to do what I want with that license including sell it, trade it or give it away. Until that happens, it's never perfect.

By the way, trading PC games is quite popular on Goozex and other sites.

Also, once again, people who only buy digitally are blinded by the huge downsides that will happen if everything goes digital. No one will own anything.

Originally Posted by Microshock www.greenmangaming.com They let you trade in your digitally bought games.

How is buying Trine for $7.30 and then trading it in for $1.46 better than paying $4 or $5 for Trine on Steam?

Hard games do not bother me. Repetition with no progress or little reward is what I can't stand in games. I find poor overall game structure simply unacceptable in regards to save systems, inventory management, and checkpoints. If I feel like the game is actively trying to screw me over, I detest it. So it's not the difficulty in gameplay that gets to me, it's the constraints that hinder a lot of games and make them unfriendly to play.

Originally Posted by Microshock www.greenmangaming.com They let you trade in your digitally bought games. Your problem is that you're so blinded by Steam's conveniences, is that you don't see their downsides. You said its PERFECT when its NOT. If Steam sells you digital licenses, then I should be able to do what I want with that license including sell it, trade it or give it away. Until that happens, it's never perfect. By the way, trading PC games is quite popular on Goozex and other sites. Also, once again, people who only buy digitally are blinded by the huge downsides that will happen if everything goes digital. No one will own anything.

I don't think comparing green man gaming which has roughly 243 games available for sale to Steam, which has 1100+ games for sale, is a very good comparison. The site you linked me too doesn't really seem to get popular titles either; No Mass Effect, Battle Field, Elder Scrolls, etc.

Not to mention it appears you get a one time download ticket when you buy games from them (I gathered this from the terms of service). So if your computer crashes I guess tough shit or at the very least jumping through a bunch of hoops by talking to their tech support? Steam though I can just install steam, log into my account, and BOOM there are all my games I just have to reinstall them and deal with lost saved files.

Goozex well take PC games, but not all of them. Like Battlefield Bad Company 2, Starcraft II, and Assassin's Creed 2 for instance; due to DRM I assume. DRM is only getting worse so as the years go by I imagine more and more games will become unable to be traded through goozex.

Don't get so wrapped up in my onetime nonchalant use of the word, "perfect". You are obviously opposed to digital distribution on the whole. I think if you ask people that are fans of digital distribution though, or people that are indifferent about it, if Steam has a good digital distribution model a lot of them would say it does indeed have a good system. Fine, it's not perfect, you got me, but shit...what in this world is perfect?

Advertisement

Register for free to remove this ad

Originally Posted by RichMeisterMan I don't think comparing green man gaming which has roughly 243 games available for sale to Steam, which has 1100+ games for sale, is a very good comparison. The site you linked me too doesn't really seem to get popular titles either; No Mass Effect, Battle Field, Elder Scrolls, etc. Not to mention it appears you get a one time download ticket when you buy games from them (I gathered this from the terms of service). So if your computer crashes I guess tough shit or at the very least jumping through a bunch of hoops by talking to their tech support? Steam though I can just install steam, log into my account, and BOOM there are all my games I just have to reinstall them and deal with lost saved files. Goozex well take PC games, but not all of them. Like Battlefield Bad Company 2, Starcraft II, and Assassin's Creed 2 for instance; due to DRM I assume. DRM is only getting worse so as the years go by I imagine more and more games will become unable to be traded through goozex. Don't get so wrapped up in my onetime nonchalant use of the word, "perfect". You are obviously opposed to digital distribution on the whole. I think if you ask people that are fans of digital distribution though, or people that are indifferent about it, if Steam has a good digital distribution model a lot of them would say it does indeed have a good system. Fine, it's not perfect, you got me, but shit...what in this world is perfect?

I'm not opposed to it. Don't stuff your garbage in my mouth. I just don't want it taking over anything. Hard copies of games will always rule regardless if everyone in the world gets broadband because people want to own something.
Doesn't help that a huge majority of the cable providers in the US have caps.

Also, you asked if there was any digital distro that let you sell or trade games and I gave you one. It's not better than Steam but it does something Steam doesn't.
PC Gaming is very imperfect in general now.

Originally Posted by Microshock I'm not opposed to it. Don't stuff your garbage in my mouth. I just don't want it taking over anything. Hard copies of games will always rule regardless if everyone in the world gets broadband because people want to own something. Doesn't help that a huge majority of the cable providers in the US have caps. Also, you asked if there was any digital distro that let you sell or trade games and I gave you one. It's not better than Steam but it does something Steam doesn't. PC Gaming is very imperfect in general now.

Oh so you aren't opposed to it but you completely trash it? If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck...

Green Man Gaming's only option is to trade back the game to them; I hardly count that as free rein over the content and yeah, it does something steam doesn't but without the games it's a totally moot point. Goozex, as I said, doesn't take all games and the list of games it doesn't take will only grow larger.

I guess there will always be a market for hard copies, but I don't feel the need to own my games in the same sense that you do. My life is no more or less fulfilled by the fact that my copy of Starcraft II only exists digitally.