Perhaps by the standards of the USA from 1990-2000 we may be in the crapper, but compared to the rest of the world I think we're still doing alright. We don't have wide spread famine, you don't see people falling over dead in the street due to some mystery illness, we don't have a foreign army in our land blowing stuff up, there's still enough money floating around that you don't need to barter a chicken for a lap dance, the NHL season is starting, we don't have bread lines, idle entertainment is still being made in vast quantaties, etc...

When it really boils down to it, there isn't all that much to complain about short of minor policy issues here and there.

1 out of 4 black men having been incarcerated, 50% of the population doesn't believe in evolution, and minimum wage being below the poverty line are more than petty policy issues imo.

Helps to not be a gangbanger or various other type of hoodlum. 1 in 80 million is president of the ing country...

Think of how stupid the average person is, and then remember that half of them are worse than that - George Carlin (also, stupidity isn't really a policy issue unles syou're talking about public education, but public education does teach evolution and the dumbies are just brainwashed by their church)

The poverty line thing is a bit sketchy as it relates to an income for a family with x amount of children. If you're in a family of four with only one income of $15,080 ($7.25 x 2,080) then you qualify for aid in numerous ways and won't be left on the street to die.

Originally Posted by nasum Helps to not be a gangbanger or various other type of hoodlum. 1 in 80 million is president of the ing country...

So your argument is that 1 in 4 black men are criminals and that anyone of them could be President if they "acted right/white?" Riddle me this: why is it that black people are stopped 7 times the frequency of white people, yet when stopped, white people are 4 times as likely to have drug paraphernalia? Btw, doing or posessing drugs does not make you a gangbanger or hoodlum. Your statement says a lot about your racist views and ignorance.

Think of how stupid the average person is, and then remember that half of them are worse than that - George Carlin (also, stupidity isn't really a policy issue unles syou're talking about public education, but public education does teach evolution and the dumbies are just brainwashed by their church)

So why are people able to be brainwashed despite being taught proper science? Why are most people dummies? Aren't environmental variables important? Wages, nutrition, quality of schools?

The poverty line thing is a bit sketchy as it relates to an income for a family with x amount of children. If you're in a family of four with only one income of $15,080 ($7.25 x 2,080) then you qualify for aid in numerous ways and won't be left on the street to die.

And if you're a single person, you're screwed. Don't forget to factor in federal taxes, FICA, insurance, and other good stuff that would probably reduce $15k to $11k net.

As far as being left in the street to die? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that they'll live in a nice apt, have nice parks, a good library, good schools, and a myriad of other social services that will allieve their lot in any meaningful way for upward socio-economic mobility.

Ahh yes, my racist views.
Have you ever watched Gangland on A&E (or maybe it's History Channel)? Riddle me this, is it possible that these thugs and their habitual offenses skew the 1/4 rate? Maybe if it weren't for a culture of perpetual violence 1/4 would be 1/10?

TABLE 1 – Racial and Ethnic Rates of Incarceration
RACIAL/ETHNIC GROUP RATE PER 100,000
White 412
Black 2,290
Hispanic 742

from:
http://sentencingproject.org/doc/pub...dethnicity.pdf

Data from July 2007, maybe it has changed but we're most definitely not looking at 1/4 here. More like 1/50.

So, to your point, am I suggesting that all blacks should be Uncle Toms to avoid being incracerated? Well, if you consider not being engaged in criminal enterprise (gangs, pimpin, robbery, etc...) being a Tom, then yeah. It's interesting that you call me the racist yet state that "acting white" would remove blacks from this epidemic of incarceration...


Why are people still able to be brainwashed? Mostly because free thinking is no longer valued in our society. New product innovation has gone from something neat like, I don't know, a ing airplane, to a new flavor from Frito Lay. Misguided "tolerance" also hampers our federal education efforts because we have to allow the snake handlers and branch davidians the same respect as "real" churches. If someone with any type of authority would have the balls to call out the morons then maybe the confused masses would have reason to not latch onto these lunatics. But hey, an invisible man and his miracle birth child who later became a zombie wish us to have happy lives so evolution never happened.


Maybe your take home is reduced to 11K, but come April 15th you'll get most of that back due to income credits. A reasonable person would evaluate their tax situation and claim the proper amount of deductions to keep as much of their $15k as possible without having to pay-in come tax day. An even more reasonable person would elect to apply for grants and student loans to increase the chance of getting a job that pays more than minimum wage.
A nice apt on min wage? Definitely not, out of the price range. But there's section 8 vouchers available. Unfortunately you end up living in squalor because the other residents don't give a shit and don't take care of anything. There won't be nice parks because the pushers use them for their trade, mainly because they realize that the income isn't reportable so they can get rich off of the drug trade while still earning welfare benefits. Why bother reading anything from a good library if you're going to get shot in the parking lot? Where are there any good schools? We're all a bunch of dumb creationists remember?
Upward socio-economic mobility? That's a load of BS sir. America is the invisible caste system. If you're born marginalized, might as well get used to it because you're political currency and nothing else.

Originally Posted by dohdough 1 out of 4 black men having been incarcerated, 50% of the population doesn't believe in evolution, and minimum wage being below the poverty line are more than petty policy issues imo.

More than half of all black children grow up in a single parent home, usually with no father figure, could that have anything to do with it? No role model perhaps.

Ignoring the race angle,

Nearly one million of those incarcerated in state and federal prisons, as well as local jails, are serving time for committing non-violent crimes.

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world at 754 persons in prison or jail per 100,000 (as of 2008).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rceration_rate

That alone is a pretty big goddamn problem.

do gitmo detainees count as part of the nearly 1 million jump during the Bush years?

I wonder how Japan manages to have only 63/100000? Maybe a culture that values respect and common decency (and fingering girls on trains) is better than one that glorifies violence?

The trend is much steeper from 1980-2000.

And if gitmo detainees counted as part of the half million jump during the Bush years there would be WAY more outrage then there is, considering they'd be American citizens.

Originally Posted by nasum 1 in 80 million is president of the ing country...

One black man in public housing in D.C. does not solve the problems of African American culture across the board. -Michael Eric Dyson

Originally Posted by nasum do gitmo detainees count as part of the nearly 1 million jump during the Bush years?

Gitmo has only housed 759 detainess. So I'm going to guess no.

Originally Posted by dohdough And if you're a single person, you're screwed. Don't forget to factor in federal taxes, FICA, insurance, and other good stuff that would probably reduce $15k to $11k net.

curious how you came to this conclusion. Care to do the math for us?

Originally Posted by Knoell curious how you came to this conclusion. Care to do the math for us?

Ok smart guy, I've worked for less than that with no benefits. Taxes and standard withholding taken out were 25% of my check, hell, it just about still is. If you count a GOOD health insurance plan that won't bankrupt you if you get a serious illness, that's AT LEAST $25 per week which equals $1300 per year. Let's round off minimum wage to $16k a year divided by 4 and you get $12k. Subtract $1300 and you get $10.7k. Add in an $800 refund, and you get $11.5k.

Originally Posted by nasum Ahh yes, my racist views. Have you ever watched Gangland on A&E (or maybe it's History Channel)? Riddle me this, is it possible that these thugs and their habitual offenses skew the 1/4 rate? Maybe if it weren't for a culture of perpetual violence 1/4 would be 1/10? TABLE 1 – Racial and Ethnic Rates of Incarceration RACIAL/ETHNIC GROUP RATE PER 100,000 White 412 Black 2,290 Hispanic 742 from: http://sentencingproject.org/doc/pub...dethnicity.pdf Data from July 2007, maybe it has changed but we're most definitely not looking at 1/4 here. More like 1/50.

Right, because they're not targeted more by the authorities despite whites being 4 times as likely to have drug parapheralia while also enjoy harsher punishments and longer sentences.

So, to your point, am I suggesting that all blacks should be Uncle Toms to avoid being incracerated? Well, if you consider not being engaged in criminal enterprise (gangs, pimpin, robbery, etc...) being a Tom, then yeah. It's interesting that you call me the racist yet state that "acting white" would remove blacks from this epidemic of incarceration...

LOLZWUT? You're the one that made the comparison of a half black/half white person with financially stable white grandparents as not being a signifigant variable for a person of color to ascend to the presidency. I also didn't go through the black stereotype handbook and listed a good number of them as being a reason as to why black people tend to be impoverished. So yes, you're racist. You might not wear a hood or call anyone a n****r to their face, but your thoughts and reasoning are still the same.

Why are people still able to be brainwashed? Mostly because free thinking is no longer valued in our society. New product innovation has gone from something neat like, I don't know, a ing airplane, to a new flavor from Frito Lay. Misguided "tolerance" also hampers our federal education efforts because we have to allow the snake handlers and branch davidians the same respect as "real" churches. If someone with any type of authority would have the balls to call out the morons then maybe the confused masses would have reason to not latch onto these lunatics. But hey, an invisible man and his miracle birth child who later became a zombie wish us to have happy lives so evolution never happened.

This is all well and good and I agree for the most part, but you're missing the why things are the way they are.

Maybe your take home is reduced to 11K, but come April 15th you'll get most of that back due to income credits. A reasonable person would evaluate their tax situation and claim the proper amount of deductions to keep as much of their $15k as possible without having to pay-in come tax day. An even more reasonable person would elect to apply for grants and student loans to increase the chance of getting a job that pays more than minimum wage.

You admit that the state of education is atrocious in this country, so how do you reconcile that with someone knowing which credits they qualify for. There's a reason why HR Block is a successful company. Most people do not know how to do their personal income taxes. And now you say they should know? This makes no sense.

A nice apt on min wage? Definitely not, out of the price range. But there's section 8 vouchers available. Unfortunately you end up living in squalor because the other residents don't give a shit and don't take care of anything. There won't be nice parks because the pushers use them for their trade, mainly because they realize that the income isn't reportable so they can get rich off of the drug trade while still earning welfare benefits. Why bother reading anything from a good library if you're going to get shot in the parking lot? Where are there any good schools? We're all a bunch of dumb creationists remember?

Do you know you're going in circles here? First off, there's a LONG waiting list for section 8. Property taxes fund schools, parks, and libraries. And you can shunt $1 billion dollars into a school, but if you don't address the underlying problems of having a poor community, it's a waste of money.

Upward socio-economic mobility? That's a load of BS sir. America is the invisible caste system. If you're born marginalized, might as well get used to it because you're political currency and nothing else.

Are you arguing with yourself? Because you say the exact opposite in this.very.post.

Eliminate the War on Drugs. There's $20 billion saved. Cut foreign policy spending by $230 billion. Let's call it a $250 billion reduction in federal war spending, foreign and domestic. That puts federal spending at $3.58 trillion. Cap yearly spending increases from this point to a 2% level; decreases in spending in defense, agriculture, and education, etc would help offset increases in medicare and social security spending.

10 years of spending in this pattern would produce a deficit of $4.36 trillion in the fiscal year 2021.

Tax revenues are projected to come in at $2.57 trillion in FY 2011. Let's assume those will grow at half the annual projected rate of 7% over the next 10 years. That leaves us with $3.63 trillion of revenue in FY 2021. 7% growth would bring us to $5.06 trillion in revenue.

Problem solved (kind of), without any draconian, government halting cuts.

@dohdough

I think the OP was simply stating that despite America's problems a lot of other places have it far worse.

You make some strong accusations, be careful with your words, no one likes to be labeled by another.

Originally Posted by jputahraptor More than half of all black children grow up in a single parent home, usually with no father figure, could that have anything to do with it? No role model perhaps.

So the reason why more than half of all black children grow up in a single parent home is because there isn't a role model and this is why black people are disproportionately targeted for law enforcement or somehow, more prone to commit "crimes" than white people? This is some piss poor reasoning. Which also begs the question: why are there a lack of role models.

Advertisement

Register for free to remove this ad

It's their fault that they're are the victims of racial profiling. If they don't want to be targeted they should stop being black, right?

Originally Posted by work88 @dohdough I think the OP was simply stating that despite America's problems a lot of other places have it far worse. You make some strong accusations, be careful with your words, no one likes to be labeled by another.

The OP made a simplistic point and so did I. He was the one that turned it into black people are gangbangers and everyone that was imprisoned derserved to be. So yeah, if someone is going to use racist stereotypes to defend their views, that person is racist. Racism is not just interpersonal interaction. You don't have to wear a white hood and burn crosses to be racist.

Originally Posted by dohdough So the reason why more than half of all black children grow up in a single parent home is because there isn't a role model and this is why black people are disproportionately targeted for law enforcement or somehow, more prone to commit "crimes" than white people? This is some piss poor reasoning. Which also begs the question: why are there a lack of role models.

Uh you just ran with my statement in the most random direction, a large amount of these kids are growing in a poorer enviorment because they don't have a father and the mother probably works more than one job to support the kids and has less time to spend with them. Think about what purpose a father serves, to teach, to support, and to nurture, now take that away, where does that child get that from, his friends, the media. I'm not saying all kids without fathers wind up in jails but if you have that advantage, I think having that father might help a kid who might fall in with the wrong crowd before they do something to wind up in jail. And this all begs the question, why do so many black men not stick around to raise their children?

As for your question, anybody can be a role model, a teacher, somebody famous, or a friend, but not all role models put out positive messages and therefore I think if anyone, a father will have the best interests of their children in mind.