Originally Posted by HisDivineShadow Games shouldn't crash. Especially not $60 PS3 games. A developer should be QA'ing their title enough to guarantee no crashes or corrupted save files. The game can look like dog poo, but crashes are just unacceptable. If your game crashes at all, you should not be paying $60 as the MSRP.

I agree. If I get sucked into a game to the point that I forget to save, I shouldn't be punished by random crashes. I had several instances in Fallout 3 where I simply forgot to save - normally I save often - and then the game crashed and I had to play the same thing over again. Even replaying 15 minutes worth of the game is annoying.

Unfortunately Fallout doesn't just have random bugs - it has bugs that are so common they get cataloged. Those are really the ones that should get patched (the finger collecting woman who runs away and the church in Point Lookout come to mind from Fallout 3).

Was really tempted to jump in on this deal, but with Dragon Age out soon and not having finished GTA 4 or RDR, I may as well wait for the GOTY.

I don't finish many games. Fallout New Vegas is one of the ones I did finish, it's very good. On the PS3 there are occasional times when the game freezes and requires a reboot, and there are times when the frame rate drops to a crawl, but the game still compelled me to keep coming back.

It's certainly huge, with many, many things to do and many ways to build your character. The companions were fun to play with. I found myself in many amusing situations. I found an outhouse and I chose to "sit" in it. Cass decided to walk right up to me and watch me intently while I was sitting in the outhouse. Cass, you freak!

Finding the real Mr House, and killing him, was pretty major. I actually sat and pondered that for a long time before reloading and going a different way.

Over 70 hours of play, I got my moneys worth from New Vegas.

Originally Posted by HisDivineShadow Games shouldn't crash. Especially not $60 PS3 games. A developer should be QA'ing their title enough to guarantee no crashes or corrupted save files. The game can look like dog poo, but crashes are just unacceptable. If your game crashes at all, you should not be paying $60 as the MSRP.

There is no such thing has perfection, especially when dealing with anything man is involved with making. When dealing with ENORMOUS game worlds like Oblivion, Fallout 3/NV, or Just Cause 2, it is simply impossible to test EVERY possible variant. I've been playing JC2 and has I'm flying miles in a chopper or doing the Spiderman thing, I wonder how it was even possible to generate all the terrain, make sure it was textured, and they you couldn't get stuck in the geometry. The JC2 map is 400 sq. mi. and I've had 5+ minute long chopper flights to get places and amazing how detailed it is, much less when you start blowing things up and returning to places and the damage is persistent. Imagine having to have a database that catalogs the states of every destructible object in an area the size of the real New York City.

Yes, games shouldn't crash ever, but sometimes things slip through. (And I'm speaking as someone who wasn't able to play his $60 copy of Unreal Tournament 3 until it appeared on Steam years later for $10 because it would crash within 20 minutes when it'd bother to start at all. I wasted HOURS updating drivers and un/reinstalling it. I still want to punch Epic in the junk for that.) Also, I really doubt most people would trade graphics for stability. The game doesn't crash and people will say, "Boy, it looked terrible. Why don't developers spend some time making games look good. It's not worth $60." They can't win.

There are 2 main reasons I didn't buy either FO3 ore New vegas new.

1. I'm not going to pay 60 bucks for a game that crashes or has severe slowdown issues. If they want top dollar they can put top effort into making the game stable.

2. Living in the middle of nowhere without a decent internet connection, I don't have my PS3 online. Unfortunately they never release the DLC on discs for cheap, so I kind of have to wait for a complete edition to get the best experience.

Originally Posted by DirkBelig Yes, games shouldn't crash ever, but sometimes things slip through. (And I'm speaking as someone who wasn't able to play his $60 copy of Unreal Tournament 3 until it appeared on Steam years later for $10 because it would crash within 20 minutes when it'd bother to start at all. I wasted HOURS updating drivers and un/reinstalling it. I still want to punch Epic in the junk for that.)

This is why I play console games only now...I got tired paying PC publishers for the privilege of being an alpha tester for them...and is EXACTLY why myself and others are so noisy about the problems with Fallout New Vegas on consoles....it is flat out unacceptable that kind of PC approach should end up on console game...it is not like there are umpteen million possible hardware configs on the 360 or PS3 like on the PC. Also folks are not mentioning when they played the game in regards to the problems... At launch, the game was effectively broken with constant crashing...3 to 4 times per hour once you start moving away from goodsprings. I tired again around Christmas, loaded up the various patches, and it was much improved....it now crashes only every few hours or so. And these crashes were not the result of some glitching effort or 'let me see what happens when I pick up every single item in the game and put them in my locker' but standard game events that if the game was actually QA'ed properly would have been evidently noticeable (such is you have item X in your inventory and talk to vendor Y when they also have item X, the game crashes) prior to release. Bethesda just pushed the game out before it was done because they wanted to make a date, not a stable game.

Just got it in store. I called them on the phone and while it was still labeled the normal price, but when the guy scanned it, it rang up at $20. Ended up grabbing it for $2 after trading in to older ps3 games. This is a great deal since they also have a %50 trade in bonus going right now.

Originally Posted by K_G At launch, the game was effectively broken with constant crashing...3 to 4 times per hour once you start moving away from goodsprings. I tired again around Christmas, loaded up the various patches, and it was much improved....it now crashes only every few hours or so.

I picked up Fallout:NV day 1 (for PS3) and I'd really like to know the details of what kind of character and/or what you're doing in-game to get 3 or 4 crashes per hour. It's not that I don't believe you so much as I'm seriously curious as to what could be causing these excessive crashes that others go on and on about yet I've never experienced.

By the way, I live in the country and use a Verizon air card. It's too slow for PSN, so I've never updated to the latest New Vegas patch. Like I said above, 200+ hours on 4 playthroughs and I can count the number of crashes on two hands. I have a launch 60GB, if that makes any difference.

Originally Posted by K_G This is why I play console games only now...I got tired paying PC publishers for the privilege of being an alpha tester for them...and is EXACTLY why myself and others are so noisy about the problems with Fallout New Vegas on consoles....it is flat out unacceptable that kind of PC approach should end up on console game...it is not like there are umpteen million possible hardware configs on the 360 or PS3 like on the PC. Also folks are not mentioning when they played the game in regards to the problems... At launch, the game was effectively broken with constant crashing...3 to 4 times per hour once you start moving away from goodsprings. I tired again around Christmas, loaded up the various patches, and it was much improved....it now crashes only every few hours or so. And these crashes were not the result of some glitching effort or 'let me see what happens when I pick up every single item in the game and put them in my locker' but standard game events that if the game was actually QA'ed properly would have been evidently noticeable (such is you have item X in your inventory and talk to vendor Y when they also have item X, the game crashes) prior to release. Bethesda just pushed the game out before it was done because they wanted to make a date, not a stable game.

Bethesda has problems, but I'd be more apt to blame Obsidian who made the game. Remember the last game they made? A little buggy incomplete sweetness called Alpha Protocol. Another game they're known for? A little buggy incomplete sweetness called Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. New Vegas comes out and is more (or less) complete (as far as we know), but buggy as all get out, especially at launch. At least they patched it. Far as I know, Obsidian (and Sega) just left AP to rot. Players patched KotOR2 to include the content they cut for time to bring the experience back up to logical.

Btw, Obsidian's next game is coming soon, Dungeon Siege 3. ITS GONNA BE GREAT! Right... right? Guys? ...Right?

Originally Posted by HisDivineShadow Bethesda has problems, but I'd be more apt to blame Obsidian who made the game. Remember the last game they made? A little buggy incomplete sweetness called Alpha Protocol. Another game they're known for? A little buggy incomplete sweetness called Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. New Vegas comes out and is more (or less) complete (as far as we know), but buggy as all get out, especially at launch. At least they patched it. Far as I know, Obsidian (and Sega) just left AP to rot. Players patched KotOR2 to include the content they cut for time to bring the experience back up to logical. Btw, Obsidian's next game is coming soon, Dungeon Siege 3. ITS GONNA BE GREAT! Right... right? Guys? ...Right?

Well you might have just saved me some money then! I was looking at that game for my next possible dungeon crawl/loot collecting game.

Originally Posted by Excast There are 2 main reasons I didn't buy either FO3 ore New vegas new. 1. I'm not going to pay 60 bucks for a game that crashes or has severe slowdown issues. If they want top dollar they can put top effort into making the game stable. 2. Living in the middle of nowhere without a decent internet connection, I don't have my PS3 online. Unfortunately they never release the DLC on discs for cheap, so I kind of have to wait for a complete edition to get the best experience.

So they deserve 0% of your money, but Gamestop gets it all? How does that compute?

You're right that games shouldn't be buggy -- and I found New Vegas's reported bugs unacceptable -- but this isn't a 2D platform. Fallout 3 and New Vegas are massive, open-ended, split-narrative games full of ambition. And New Vegas used a team that was under a stricter schedule, expected to follow-up a game-of-the-year worthy title.

If you remember, even Super Mario Bros. had a bug or two.

Originally Posted by blindinglights I picked up Fallout:NV day 1 (for PS3) and I'd really like to know the details of what kind of character and/or what you're doing in-game to get 3 or 4 crashes per hour. It's not that I don't believe you so much as I'm seriously curious as to what could be causing these excessive crashes that others go on and on about yet I've never experienced.

I was on the 360 and the crashes started to crop up in earnest after hour 4 or 5. I'd say about 60% of them occured in randomly in VATS camera shots where the game would suddenly slow down and then freeze and then crash hard....after playing the patched version, VATS shots randomly slow down and freeze for a few moments but then come back to normal speed and then pops back into normal view. After about hour 15 or so, it seem that there was a one in four chance that opening up a trading screen with a vendor would cause a crash, but through trial and error, I realized that if if I wasn't carrying any casino playing cards when doing this, these crashes didn't happen. The rest were doing extreme stuff like entering buildings/moving between levels in vaults that would open up loading screens that would never end.

It has been a while, so I can't remember my exact stats beyond I was mostly good and used plasma weapons mostly and I usually had two companions with me. These crashes happened during normal gameplay...sometimes in combat, other times just walking around.

Originally Posted by HisDivineShadow Bethesda has problems, but I'd be more apt to blame Obsidian who made the game. Remember the last game they made? A little buggy incomplete sweetness called Alpha Protocol. Another game they're known for? A little buggy incomplete sweetness called Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. New Vegas comes out and is more (or less) complete (as far as we know), but buggy as all get out, especially at launch. At least they patched it. Far as I know, Obsidian (and Sega) just left AP to rot. Players patched KotOR2 to include the content they cut for time to bring the experience back up to logical. Btw, Obsidian's next game is coming soon, Dungeon Siege 3. ITS GONNA BE GREAT! Right... right? Guys? ...Right?

Ah, yes, I definitely remember KotOR 2. Did the modders ever manage to restore the secret HK base? It's been so long that I don't remember if I ever managed to play that part or not!

is the collector edition worth 40 dollar for pc?

I think it's worth $40 ... I went back and picked up a copy of it today, after I found out one Gamestop still had a copy of the CE. I would say it's a more mature and useful CE than many on the market ... you get a making of DVD that is average, you get an exclusive comic that's short but hardcover. The real gems are the poker chips (relatively high quality), the platinum chip that is actual metal and has a nice bit of weight to it (not cheap or plastic), and then the custom playing cards which are great as well.

One of the nicest parts (and I actually held this against the CE at first bc I had a 360 version I bought but never opened at launch and ended up selling) is the size of the CE, it's on the smaller side. I was expecting a Bioshock 2 sized CE but this is actually nice and well sized to display but not take up too much room. So I would say go for it if you can find one. As far as I know, there isn't any other way to find the contents in the CE, so it's not the type of thing where you could buy them separately for less.

hmm im thinking of trading in lost planet 2 for the 360 and picking this up for the pc. Is gamestop doing the 50% trade in bonus?

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Originally Posted by etcrane I think it's worth $40 ... I went back and picked up a copy of it today, after I found out one Gamestop still had a copy of the CE. I would say it's a more mature and useful CE than many on the market ... you get a making of DVD that is average, you get an exclusive comic that's short but hardcover. The real gems are the poker chips (relatively high quality), the platinum chip that is actual metal and has a nice bit of weight to it (not cheap or plastic), and then the custom playing cards which are great as well. One of the nicest parts (and I actually held this against the CE at first bc I had a 360 version I bought but never opened at launch and ended up selling) is the size of the CE, it's on the smaller side. I was expecting a Bioshock 2 sized CE but this is actually nice and well sized to display but not take up too much room. So I would say go for it if you can find one. As far as I know, there isn't any other way to find the contents in the CE, so it's not the type of thing where you could buy them separately for less.

yeah, I picked up the only pc collector edition in my area for 40. Pretty sweet, even if I change my mine on it I am pretty sure I will not have much issue selling it.