Sure, I'm bummed, but I want a perfect game, so take the time to do it right. That's what I say.

Gives me more time to replay ME1 and ME2. Maybe I'll finally get my insanity run done!

Oh God.

Mass Effect 3 tweaked for "larger market"

"One of the things that Ray Muzyuka and the team up in Edmonton have done is essentially step-by-step adjust the gameplay mechanics and some of the features that you'll see at E3 to put this in a genre equivalent to shooter-meets-RPG," he said, "and essentially address a much larger market opportunity than Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 began to approach.

Cue the cries of "sell out," "dumbed down," and "where's my RPG". This might get ugly.

Dudes in the Eurogamer comments are already cancelling their preorders.

Well I'll admit I'm a bit worried now, but won't stop me from getting it.

How can it be "tweaked for 'larger market'" when they've already said they're expanding some of the RPG elements that were thinned out for ME2?

ME2 was already "tweaked" for a larger market when they made it more "you got your RPG in my shooter" than the "you got your shooter in my RPG" they had with ME1.

I certainly hope we don't get "Call of Mass Effect 3" or "Mass Effect 3 of Duty", though I can't imagine Bioware would shoot themselves in the foot that much after all the praise and awards ME2 picked up.

I think whatever they demo at E3 will be something to watch closely.

Originally Posted by shrike4242 I can't imagine Bioware would shoot themselves in the foot that much .

See Dragon Age 2 for said foot shooting.

Hopefully they're just tweaking the shooting mechanics to make it a better shooter and not "dumbing down" the RPG elements any more. ME2 was about as dumbed-down as it gets.

Originally Posted by Hell Monkey See Dragon Age 2 for said foot shooting.

If by "shooting in the foot" you mean "a flawed yet awesome game with many significant improvements from Origins" then... yeah.

Well, if not on the Dragon Age series, at least all of us here can probably agree that Mass Effect 2 was both more accessible and more awesome than ME1, so I think BioWare deserves a little blind faith here, despite all the sky-is-falling talk that is sure to dominate the internet in short order.

Originally Posted by Ryuukishi If by "shooting in the foot" you mean "a flawed yet awesome game with many significant improvements from Origins" then... yeah. Well, if not on the Dragon Age series, at least all of us here can probably agree that Mass Effect 2 was both more accessible and more awesome than ME1, so I think BioWare deserves a little blind faith here, despite all the sky-is-falling talk that is sure to dominate the internet in short order.

I will agree to disagree with you on DAII being better then DA:O.

Anyway onto Mass Effect. Yeah ME2 was incredible, only thing I didn't like was lack of ability to mess with armor for everyone on the squad. Still I think ME3 should be amazing and will have it pre-ordered soon as a CE is announced.

Good news with the delay. I need more time to play through ME2 a few more times.

Originally Posted by Hell Monkey See Dragon Age 2 for said foot shooting.

So I've been told, which is why I'm not touching it until I get through DA1, DA: A and the DLC. That'll be a while at the rate I'm playing it, so they should have it all patched up by then.

Originally Posted by Ryuukishi If by "shooting in the foot" you mean "a flawed yet awesome game with many significant improvements from Origins" then... yeah. Well, if not on the Dragon Age series, at least all of us here can probably agree that Mass Effect 2 was both more accessible and more awesome than ME1, so I think BioWare deserves a little blind faith here, despite all the sky-is-falling talk that is sure to dominate the internet in short order.

I assumed I'd get a counterpoint view from Hell Monkey when you'd comment about DA2.

From what I've read, without any first-hand playing of said game, it seems like it would be better if they didn't seem to rush it out the door and had more time to bug-fix and polish it.

Yes, ME2 is more accessible than ME1. No question there. Did they trim some items out of it that I liked in the first game? Yes. Was it a huge issue? No.

Originally Posted by Hell Monkey I will agree to disagree with you on DAII being better then DA:O. Anyway onto Mass Effect. Yeah ME2 was incredible, only thing I didn't like was lack of ability to mess with armor for everyone on the squad. Still I think ME3 should be amazing and will have it pre-ordered soon as a CE is announced.

From what we've seen so far, assuming it doesn't change in the meantime, it looks like we'll get a nice fusion between the customizations from ME1 and the faster gameplay of ME2.

Unless they turn it into a multiplayer mess, it's a day 1 purchase for me with whatever CE they toss out there.

I'm perfectly fine if ME3 ends up even more shooter than RPG than ME2 personally.

My ideal game (not saying ME3 should be this, just what my ideal game would be) would basically be Gears of War gameplay with the questing, exploration, story and length of a WRPG.

Originally Posted by Ryuukishi Oh God. Mass Effect 3 tweaked for "larger market" Cue the cries of "sell out," "dumbed down," and "where's my RPG". This might get ugly. Dudes in the Eurogamer comments are already cancelling their preorders.

The important quote to get is who was speaking, and who was being talked to.

"Speaking during an investor Q&A today, Riccitiello explained that Mass Effect 3 will boast greater mass appeal than its two predecessors. "

When a CEO is talking to investors he is telling them what they want to hear does not mean anything beyond what we already heard is being changed.

Originally Posted by spid When a CEO is talking to investors he is telling them what they want to hear does not mean anything beyond what we already heard is being changed.

Yup, and the people who are actually in a position to talk about gameplay, Casey Hudson and Christina Norman, have talked about increasing the amount of skill customization and stat crunching from ME2. I have no doubt there will be elements of the game that hardcore RPGers won't welcome, but all this "Gears Effect of Duty" talk is just silly.

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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 I'm perfectly fine if ME3 ends up even more shooter than RPG than ME2 personally. My ideal game (not saying ME3 should be this, just what my ideal game would be) would basically be Gears of War gameplay with the questing, exploration, story and length of a WRPG.

No surprise with that opinion from you.

You might get your wish, you might not. Come back in Q1 2012.

Originally Posted by Ryuukishi Yup, and the people who are actually in a position to talk about gameplay, Casey Hudson and Christina Norman, have talked about increasing the amount of skill customization and stat crunching from ME2. I have no doubt there will be elements of the game that hardcore RPGers won't welcome, but all this "Gears Effect of Duty" talk is just silly.

I would take any information from those two to be far closer to the gospel truth than anything higher-level management have to say about ME3's direction.

I'm still thinking that we'll get the nice middleground in ME3 that we're all looking for as a nice compromise between ME1 and ME2.

Maybe they'll listen to Tha X and make the femShep the default option instead of Sheploo.

Originally Posted by shrike4242 No surprise with that opinion from you. You might get your wish, you might not. Come back in Q1 2012.

Oh I'm sure I'll love ME3 regardless.

And I wouldn't want to see it turn into my "ideal game" as that would alienate too much of the existing fanbase. That's just a game idea I hope some developer takes up in a new game down the road.

(Oh god, what am I doing in this thread?)

I saw some people freaking out about what the big shots over at EA said about "appealing to a wider market." Like spid said, it's probably just buttering up the delay for the investors. I doubt with the extra 3-6 months they gained with the delay, they'll throw in a half-assed multiplayer component or strip down every RPG element already implemented. That would make the final product suffer. I'm guessing the delay was mainly for polish (they really wouldn't want another bugfest like DA2 was), plus a better, less crowded window for launch.

Originally Posted by Arikado I saw some people freaking out about what the big shots over at EA said about "appealing to a wider market." Like spid said, it's probably just buttering up the delay for the investors. I doubt with the extra 3-6 months they gained with the delay, they'll throw in a half-assed multiplayer component or strip down every RPG element already implemented. That would make the final product suffer. I'm guessing the delay was mainly for polish (they really wouldn't want another bugfest like DA2 was), plus a better, less crowded window for launch.

I think your right. At least I hope so...

Originally Posted by spid The important quote to get is who was speaking, and who was being talked to. "Speaking during an investor Q&A today, Riccitiello explained that Mass Effect 3 will boast greater mass appeal than its two predecessors. " When a CEO is talking to investors he is telling them what they want to hear does not mean anything beyond what we already heard is being changed.

I believe this is the truth. I will keep the faith. They can't screw up ME. They just can't.

Couple of tweets from Christina Norman for those that think the sky is falling:

I've been asked if we increased our dev time for ME3 to dumb it down, if we were dumbing it down wouldn't we need less time?

Let me make this simple: we are improving both the RPG and Shooter aspects of ME3

This is why I'm sticking to what Christina Norman and Casey Hudson say as the "real" truth about the development. They've not been shy about sharing details about the game, and keeping things under the vest when they're spoilerific. Good point about the "dumbing it down" taking less time than making it even better.

CEO and other C-level employees aren't people we should be listening to about the reasons for delays.