Here's a question though: Will Wii U launch just before or just after the next COD/AC games? If Wii U launches after, that's not a good thing since gamers are usually inherently impatient pricks about that stuff. 2-3 days/weeks after those games launch is basically 2-3 months in gamer time.

I know the online stuff is still in flux until February or so, but after that is when we should start hearing things from developers who leak things (i.e. Ubisoft).

As for Nintendo franchises on Wii U, I've heard one major one isn't going to make it, but it's not the obvious answer. So that probably means no Pokemon Stadium HD.

No one is going to by a Wii U for COD anyway. They'll buy it on whatever platform they play it on now as that's where all their friends they play the game online with will be playing it.

I think Corvin was right and most core gamers console allegiance are pretty well set due to the focus on playing online with friends, having games and DLC tied to console accounts etc.

The Wii U's key with core gamers is whether it can do enough to get them to buy it as a second console as they're unlikely to switch from MS/Sony as their main console--at least initially.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 I don't think that will get many to change loyalties. With third party exclusives mostly being a thing of the past it just comes down to first party exclusives which probably won't change much. People who love Mario, Metroid and Zelda will want a Wii U, people who love Halo and Gears of War will want a 720 and people who love Uncharted, Gran Turismo etc. will want a PS4. So Corvin is likely right that most people will just buy the successor to whatever console they liked most this generation as their main console the next go around when you factor that in, along with friends lists, content tied to a console's account etc.

Thing is, you kinda point out above that franchises haven't stayed static from one generation to another. Gears Of War and Uncharted are new franchises this generation. Then you look at some of the franchises that have gone by the wayside for Sony: Crash Bandicoot, Jax and Daxter, Gex, Parappa the Rapper, and probably more. As much as people like to compare other consoles to Nintendo, none of them rival Nintendo for long-running franchises. Some carry over to the next generation, but more often than not they don't, and there is always new IP to replace them.

Being tied to online content may be a more valid argument for sticking with a brand, but there is no guarantee that it will fully do that. That is one of the unknows going into the second generation of true online gaming networks on consoles.

Franchises change, but types of franchises that are dominant on a platform don't really don't much from generation to generation.

Nintendo isn't going to all of sudden start making FPS games and WRPG games for instance. MS will probably keep focusing on shooters and so on.

So I can be more broad in my statement and not mention specific franchises, but rather focus on genres. If people want to play platformers and family friendly games, they're going to stick with Nintendo. If they want to play shooters, fighters, sports games, racing games etc. then it will be MS or Sony depending on which series they like more, where their friends play online etc.

Nintendo's biggest problem is lack of new IPs. They've been far too content to just keep shitting out Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby etc. The only semi-major new IP they've put out the past two generations is Pikmin, and that was a niche genre game. Not counting the casual game IPs like Brain Age, Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. that core gamers don't give a shit about.

Without new IPs, they can't attract new gamers who aren't interested in their traditional franchises anymore. Time will tell if that changes with the Wii U. But I'm not holding my breath. They seem content to just focus on families and kids primarily, and they're franchises are a great platform for succeeding in that market.

But that's not going to give them any more success among core gamers. Core gamers are focused on FPS, WRPG, sports and racing games primarily. If Nintendo wants to get back into that market, they need exclusives in those genres. If they don't, then they should stop talking about getting back to core gamers and talk about focusing more on longtime Nintendo gamers who still love their franchises and less on soccer moms with crap like with Wii Fit.

And honestly, Nintendo is best off focusing on families and kids as there's very little chance of them succeeding with the fps/wrpg/sports/racing game playing core gamer set anyway. There's already two consoles that have that market cornered. Nintendo just needs to find a way to sell more games to the kids, families, Nintendo fanboys etc. to get their software attach rate up.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot Some carry over to the next generation, but more often than not they don't, and there is always new IP to replace them.

That's why I say bring on next-gen. New IPs are always ushered in with new consoles. With a small launch user base companies have more room to gamble on new games than relying on the tried and true.

Nintendo at Wii's launch had the following (excluding Zelda):
- Wii Sports (casual, tech demo which somehow became the Game that changed the Generation)
- Excite Truck (pseudo spin-off/successor to Excitebike)

Not exactly new IP's, but Nintendo does have quite a few "dormant" franchises that you could really sell off as new IP's because they haven't had a new entry in 15+ years.

If they wanted a new IP, it'd be smart of them to let Retro do a new IP with them overseeing development since the American Press goes head over heels for a Retro Studios game. That'd probably attract a more hardcore audience.

Yeah, I'd love to see what Retro could do with creating their own FPS game.

The Metroid Prime games were great, but where more adventure games than shooters with the focus on exploration and the lock on shooting etc.

are they gonna kill off the motion plus, i think they made a huge break through with that once Skyward Sword was released but now with this new controller seems like they are just throwing it in the bag and soon may just fade it off and focus on this dumb controller

So the rumors are Nintendo is trying to build an "ecosystem" similar to what Android and iOS has done. If true, the controller is really becoming a sort of tablet. It's an interesting direction with a lot of possibilities. I think what would annoy me most would be the resistive touch screen. Though it works out better only in terms of the stylus, it just isn't near as responsive as its capacitive counterpart.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rumor/28847

Originally Posted by pacemakerguy are they gonna kill off the motion plus, i think they made a huge break through with that once Skyward Sword was released but now with this new controller seems like they are just throwing it in the bag and soon may just fade it off and focus on this dumb controller

The Wii U is compatable with the Wii remotes. Also: http://www.1up.com/news/future-zelda...otion-controls

Originally Posted by omster So the rumors are Nintendo is trying to build an "ecosystem" similar to what Android and iOS has done. If true, the controller is really becoming a sort of tablet. It's an interesting direction with a lot of possibilities. I think what would annoy me most would be the resistive touch screen. Though it works out better only in terms of the stylus, it just isn't near as responsive as its capacitive counterpart.

Resistive screens can be quite responsive. My Nokia N900 has a resistive screen, and I think it is quite responsive. Plus, I can use a stylus with it, which is good because I have fat fingers.

The more that comes about about Wii U, the further my interest in it declines.....

Originally Posted by omster So the rumors are Nintendo is trying to build an "ecosystem" similar to what Android and iOS has done. If true, the controller is really becoming a sort of tablet. It's an interesting direction with a lot of possibilities.

Wow - what a colossal mistake this would be. Am I supposed to carry the tablet around with me or something? LOL. Sorry, but no one plays shitty $1 apps on my couch.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 The more that comes about about Wii U, the further my interest in it declines.....

Same here. So depressing since I've been a Nintendo fan for 25+ years. I will not make the same mistake I did with the Wii and buy it just because it is Nintendo's new console. They are going to have to earn it this time... and the prospect doesn't look good other than maybe buying it after a massive price drop 4-5 years down the line just so I can keep up with Mario/Zelda/Metroid, etc. And even that seems like a stretch.

Originally Posted by Javery I will not make the same mistake I did with the Wii and buy it just because it is Nintendo's new console.

You're probably echoing the sentiments of other Wii and 3DS early adopters.

I don't believe this latest rumor, though. They can't even put a decent online infrastructure together for multiplayer gaming. Take care of that first, then try your hand at duplicating Apple's iOS environment.

Originally Posted by Javery They are going to have to earn it this time... and the prospect doesn't look good other than maybe buying it after a massive price drop 4-5 years down the line just so I can keep up with Mario/Zelda/Metroid, etc. And even that seems like a stretch.

Yep. I'm of the exact same mindset.

Originally Posted by Toulouse You're probably echoing the sentiments of other Wii and 3DS early adopters. I don't believe this latest rumor, though. They can't even put a decent online infrastructure together for multiplayer gaming. Take care of that first, then try your hand at duplicating Apple's iOS environment.

Then people here would just yawn and say that Nintendo is just trying to play catchup.

One thing you have to remember about all of this: the casual and family market is the focus of Nintendo right now, because that's the market that cares the most about what Nintendo did with the Wii. The hard-core gaming crowd didn't care about the Wii and there is probably little Nintendo can do to win over that crowd, who mostly has found homes with Sony and Microsoft.

The best we can hope for is a more friendly experience for the hard-core gamer: HD graphics, a more rich online experience, and more cross-platform titles. But, hard-core gamers will never be the focus of Nintendo. They can't win on that playing field and they know it.

Absolutely right. And as I said before, they're smart to focus on that market.

Us more hardcore gamers who grew up on Nintendo just have to accept that MS and Sony fit our interests better now, and that Nintendo's consoles will probably never offer much for us beyond updates to their franchises and maybe the occasional new IP like Pikmin etc. A Nintendo console will never again be the main console for us. At best it's a 2nd or 3rd console bought to keep up with Mario, Metroid and Zelda.

I personally think Nintendo needs to cater to even a younger audience, there are tons of 3-7 year olds out there who love Nintendo but the games are just too difficult for them. Lets face it Mario is now a property in the US that is most popular with 3-7 year olds, look at the merchandise and clothing out there, its all geared for them. However most of Nintendo's games are geared for the over 10 crowd due to the difficulty however once you get to age 10-11 its already uncool to play Nintendo and you better be playing Xbox or PS3 or you will get literately eaten alive in middle school and high school. I have not met a 3-6 year old who can handle playing a Nintendo game due to the difficulty. So here we have a paradox, the games are catching on with younger and younger kids, but the games are too difficult for them.

iOS and leapster right now are killing the market for the youngsters since parents will hand their iPhone to their 2 year old and it has apps that are geared for that age range while Nintendo has nothing for the lucrative 2-7 year old market. Its time for Nintendo to get their hat in the ring and release some preschool friendly games. I have no doubt these games would be extremely popular and sell like crazy.

In order for there to be an incentive to purchase the console right away the games must have online multiplayer, the multiplayer must be free of charge and be active and remain active for at least a few months after the game launches. Otherwise there is no incentive to purchase the console now because the games will be the same games 5 years from now and they will be cheaper then.

I don't think Nintendo should go the app store route, the reason being is right now there are too many app stores, the market is saturated and people are already grandfathered into iOS or Android because they were there first. If everyone goes the App store route then eventually the app stores will start to crash and burn, and become not profitable. It may be profitable now but 5 years from now when everything is an app it will not be so profitable. Also if Nintendo is doing an app store they need to learn how to have sales and a central account and make it so you can get your data back if something happens and get a large amount of prepaid cards to market in the same stores that are filled with iTunes and Microsoft point cards. No one can compete with the sales and free apps of the iOS and Android app stores right now. If Nintendo screws this up they will crash and burn so bad.

Originally Posted by SaraAB I personally think Nintendo needs to cater to even a younger audience, there are tons of 3-7 year olds out there who love Nintendo but the games are just too difficult for them. Lets face it Mario is now a property in the US that is most popular with 3-7 year olds, look at the merchandise and clothing out there, its all geared for them. However most of Nintendo's games are geared for the over 10 crowd due to the difficulty however once you get to age 10-11 its already uncool to play Nintendo and you better be playing Xbox or PS3 or you will get literately eaten alive in middle school and high school. I have not met a 3-6 year old who can handle playing a Nintendo game due to the difficulty. So here we have a paradox, the games are catching on with younger and younger kids, but the games are too difficult for them.

Depends on what you mean by "Nintendo game". There are certainly some that my 5 year old can handle just fine. Last year, the big thing for us (when he was 4) was Kirby Epic Yarn, which was challenging enough without getting too frustrating. Mario Kart is also very much in his range. (I don't have Mario Kart, but my son got lots of mileage from the very similar Sega All Stars Racing.) Also, my son can hold his own in Super Smash Bros.

I don't know what he plays at other people's houses, but he spends hours playing with his friends on Wii and doesn't seem to tire of it, so I don't think it is as much of a problem as you think. Yeah, some games he struggles with (SMG2 is frustrating for him), but for the most part there is plenty of enjoyment he gets out of games.

What I don't want to see is things getting too dumbed down that it stops being interesting. For example, he had Dora and Diego games for the PS2 which he played for a time, but after he beat them, he had no reason to play them any more. Those games were painfully easy.

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Kirby's Epic Yarn is a perfect game for my 4 year old - same with all of the Lego games. YOU CAN'T DIE! It's that simple. If they made SMB or whatever the same way (as an option to be turned on) my kid would be able to play through that as well. Batman: Brave and the Bold is another game like that. It would be nice if most games implemented some type of "no fail" mode.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot Depends on what you mean by "Nintendo game". There are certainly some that my 5 year old can handle just fine. Last year, the big thing for us (when he was 4) was Kirby Epic Yarn, which was challenging enough without getting too frustrating. Mario Kart is also very much in his range. (I don't have Mario Kart, but my son got lots of mileage from the very similar Sega All Stars Racing.) Also, my son can hold his own in Super Smash Bros. I don't know what he plays at other people's houses, but he spends hours playing with his friends on Wii and doesn't seem to tire of it, so I don't think it is as much of a problem as you think. Yeah, some games he struggles with (SMG2 is frustrating for him), but for the most part there is plenty of enjoyment he gets out of games. What I don't want to see is things getting too dumbed down that it stops being interesting. For example, he had Dora and Diego games for the PS2 which he played for a time, but after he beat them, he had no reason to play them any more. Those games were painfully easy.

I think a lot of it is parents would rather their young children be playing educational games on leapster or their ipad/iphone than those kind of Nintendo games. Nintendo could maybe make some more money in the toddle crowd by having some Mario Edutainment type games.

And gaming skill varies by kids. I have a nephew thats 4 and a half or so, and he can't handle NSMB, Mario Kart, Mario, Lego Batman and Sonic Olympic games etc. that i tried to play with him over the hollidays, but other kids can for sure. I think he's just too hyper and doesn't have the patience/attention span to learn the controls etc.