Originally Posted by dmaul1114 I think a lot of it is parents would rather their young children be playing educational games on leapster or their ipad/iphone than those kind of Nintendo games. Nintendo could maybe make some more money in the toddle crowd by having some Mario Edutainment type games.

Ha! Before I had kids I thought the same thing but those games blow (they can tell) and kids learn a TON on their own (with guidance, of course). At that age video games are a treat and purely for fun, IMO.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 And gaming skill varies by kids. I have a nephew thats 4 and a half or so, and he can't handle NSMB, Mario Kart, Mario, Lego Batman and Sonic Olympic games etc. that i tried to play with him over the hollidays, but other kids can for sure. I think he's just too hyper and doesn't have the patience/attention span to learn the controls etc.

I think 4 is a good age to start introducing video games and skill definitely varies by kid - my son is about 4.5 and he is already sick at video games but a lot of his friends are awful. He can finish Lego Batman easily and he is playing through a bunch of the other Lego games right now (Harry Potter, Pirates, Clone Wars, etc.). He is decent at NSMB but that game frustrates him once he gets past a few levels. I love watching him play with the Xbox controller - he hits every button without looking like it is second nature. Crazy. My daughter (7), on the other hand, hasn't shown as much of an interest in video games - she will play them but she doesn't really ever ask to do so. My son is miles better than she is at them.

I think this may be Nintendo's last console. Old people and little kids aren't going to care about a touch screen controller the way they did with basic motion control. Let's just hope that when Nintendo becomes a third party they don't ruin Mario and Zelda the way Sega did with Sonic.

Originally Posted by Javery Ha! Before I had kids I thought the same thing but those games blow (they can tell) and kids learn a TON on their own (with guidance, of course). At that age video games are a treat and purely for fun, IMO.

I wasn't touting the merits of them. Just noting that Leapfrog stuff sells like hotcakes, as to Edutainment iphone/iPad apps, so there's clearly a market for it.

I think most of the market is parents just wanting a digital babysitter for their kids, and feeling less guilty about an crappy edutainment game than a regular video game though.

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I doubt Nintendo is going to stop producing consoles anytime soon. Unlike Sega when they got out, Nintendo has been profitable with every console they've released. Even if Wii U is a failure, I doubt Nintendo would step away from a business that has been a huge success for them over the past 30 years.

Originally Posted by Javery Kirby's Epic Yarn is a perfect game for my 4 year old - same with all of the Lego games. YOU CAN'T DIE! It's that simple. If they made SMB or whatever the same way (as an option to be turned on) my kid would be able to play through that as well. Batman: Brave and the Bold is another game like that. It would be nice if most games implemented some type of "no fail" mode.

Funny, I just gave that to my son for Christmas .

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 I think a lot of it is parents would rather their young children be playing educational games on leapster or their ipad/iphone than those kind of Nintendo games. Nintendo could maybe make some more money in the toddle crowd by having some Mario Edutainment type games.

While my son does like his Leapster, it doesn't keep his attention like a DS does. He actually got his first DS this Christmas thanks to my mom, who didn't want my son left out amongst his cousins.

As for edutainment, Nintendo probably made a good amount of money on the Brain Age games. (My son actually likes playing those type of games on our cell phones.)

Originally Posted by rlse9 I doubt Nintendo is going to stop producing consoles anytime soon. Unlike Sega when they got out, Nintendo has been profitable with every console they've released. Even if Wii U is a failure, I doubt Nintendo would step away from a business that has been a huge success for them over the past 30 years.

Agreed.

Selfishly I'd love to see them go third party as I'd love to get their franchises on a console I actually want to own (rather than having to buy a Nintendo console just to play them) but they're still profitable so that's not going to happen any time soon.

It would take multiple failures in both the console and handheld area for that to happen. And they're coming off big commercial successes with the Wii and DS.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot F While my son does like his Leapster, it doesn't keep his attention like a DS does.

For sure kids are more interested in the pure games than the learning ones. That's why I say the sales are more that many parents feel less guilty letting Leapster babysit their kids thana DS or Wii since they can justify it as being educational. Not saying you do that, just that's why those things sell like hot cakes in general.

As for edutainment, Nintendo probably made a good amount of money on the Brain Age games. (My son actually likes playing those type of games on our cell phones.)

Those appeal to adults to.

I'm more talking things that teach counting, reading etc. like Leapster games do. Parents would probably buy those up for the same reason they buy up Leapsters--they can let the Nintendo occupy the kid for a bit while they do other stuff, and feel better about it since it's "educational."

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 I'm more talking things that teach counting, reading etc. like Leapster games do. Parents would probably buy those up for the same reason they buy up Leapsters--they can let the Nintendo occupy the kid for a bit while they do other stuff, and feel better about it since it's "educational."

I did buy my son a reading game for his DS, and he does play with it. apparently it records his voice and plays it back for him.

Sure, and imagine how something like that would sell if it featured Mario and friends.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 I think a lot of it is parents would rather their young children be playing educational games on leapster or their ipad/iphone than those kind of Nintendo games. Nintendo could maybe make some more money in the toddle crowd by having some Mario Edutainment type games. And gaming skill varies by kids. I have a nephew thats 4 and a half or so, and he can't handle NSMB, Mario Kart, Mario, Lego Batman and Sonic Olympic games etc. that i tried to play with him over the hollidays, but other kids can for sure. I think he's just too hyper and doesn't have the patience/attention span to learn the controls etc.

My 11 year old cousin cannot handle playing video games with the family without basically screaming and crying as I confirmed over the holidays, but this is a rant for another day.. he literately ruins it for everyone! Does anyone else have this with an 11 year old or is my situation unique? This is a kid who supposedly loves games sooo much too... So yes game skill does vary greatly by child.

I haven't seen a younger kid who doesn't get horribly frustrated by video games these days though. The mario games are in particular extremely frustrating for what they are, I know Nintendo has tried but they really should remove the timer or at least have options in them that gear themselves to the younger and inexperienced gamer. If they had options to remove the timer and make the game easier then kids could start off easy and eventually select a higher difficulty. Of course the harder modes would be left untouched so those looking for a challenge would have nothing to complain about. A very difficult, timed experience isn't what Wii owning parents signed up for when they bought New super mario bros for their kids.

I still think it would be very beneficial for Nintendo to expand its Mario franchise, and some of its other properties into younger-kid friendly and possibly edutainment games, ideally a little of both so parents have a choice.

Super Baby Mario Bros.?

Sadistical Wario Bros.

Originally Posted by TheLongshot Then people here would just yawn and say that Nintendo is just trying to play catchup. One thing you have to remember about all of this: the casual and family market is the focus of Nintendo right now, because that's the market that cares the most about what Nintendo did with the Wii. The hard-core gaming crowd didn't care about the Wii and there is probably little Nintendo can do to win over that crowd, who mostly has found homes with Sony and Microsoft.

But that's just it, they do need to "play catchup." Not in becoming more Hardcore, but in simply possessing the technical capabilities of their competitors, whether it's Sony, MS, Apple, whoever.

They still don't know how to relate to developers. What would these kind of examples suggest to other media content providers for N's supposed ecosystem?

Maybe you're right, maybe this ecosystem is spoken for and on its way, but IMO Nintendo isn't equipped to make it into anything resembling success. It will, at best, duplicate existing services already provided by Nintendo (e.g. digital download delivery).

Steam's the same way. Why I don't know. Probably different reasons, but for Wii Ware, I imagine it's embarrassment over the platform.

Also, I'm confident there won't be Friend Codes. Yeah...I've tried writing that three times.

Originally Posted by KingBroly Also, I'm confident there won't be Friend Codes. Yeah...I've tried writing that three times.

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me
Fool me three times, ???

fool me thrice, shame on both of us

I hope this does work for Nintendo.

Originally Posted by 200STM I hope this does work for Nintendo.

In what sense?

It brings the hardcore gamers like myself back!

And what would they need to do that exactly?

I mean, besides...
- No Friend Codes
- User Accounts
- VC/WW transfers
- Store Sales (Which is apparently happening this time)
- Actual Third Party Support

What do they need?

I think we've beat that point in the ground. And you hit most of the points.

For me the key ones are:

Top notch graphics. Not just at launch, but need to be on par with the Xbox 720 and PS4 or I won't buy until a Wii U is very cheap if at all.

Needs a standard controller. I'm not playing FPS and WRPG etc. with that unwieldy tablet controller. No standard controller packed in, I probably won't buy.

Robust online system. Gamertags instead of friend codes, party chat, cross game invites etc. Online on par with the MS and sony systems basically. And also need a full achievement/trophy system as I find that adds some replay value to games.

True third party support. All the big games, and they have to look and play just as good as they do on the Xbox 720 and PS4 when those consoles are out.

So in short, I probably ain't buying one as it's launching soon and will thus almost definitely be underpowered when the 720/PS4 launch. And I highly doubt they'll pack in a standard controller. They'll have another classic controller pro type accessory, and that won't get much third party support since not many developers will make games requiring a controller that wasn't included with the console.


The controller is my main concern. Nintendo has just shown no ability to make comfortable, ergonomic controllers lately. Wiimote with Nunchuck is pretty good. But Wiimote by itself sucks. Struggling a bit with Metroid Other M now as playing with the Wiimote sideways, and using that tiny d-pad, cramps my left hand up after an hour or so. And then there's the Kid Icarus 3DS game that was causing hand cramp problems. Rather than change the shitty control scheme their packing in a stand to put the 3DS on so people can play cramp free! http://ds.ign.com/articles/121/12164...source=twitter

Nintendo just sucks at making hardware. Have made nothing but bad decisions from the N64 on and haven't made a good controller since the SNES either. Still have a lot of good software though. As I said earlier, wish they'd fail and just go third party. But not going to happen any time soon as the Wii and DS sold like hot cakes and they have a stranglehold on the family/kid market. So you have to suffer through their hardware if you want to enjoy their software.