Originally Posted by Idiotekque Yeah I'm not savvy about this stuff, but I'd buy a Sony before I bought a Toshiba. Besides the graphics card, that Toshiba doesn't seem very impressive for that price. Is it possible to get a similar Sony with a graphics card that will work better for games?

You have to pay extra for a dedicated card. Really Sony and Toshiba are both horrible brands for laptops. You want to look at ASUS, MSI, Lenovo, and iBUYPOWER. The problem is, to get a decent gaming laptop with a dedicated card (which you need to perform well) in a good brand, you will have to pay $700-800 if not more.

What it comes down to is that you absolutely need a dedicated card for gaming. Integrated graphics aren't meant for it. Playing a game on low settings with a 800x600 resolution is NOT playable. You wouldn't even be able to read the words on a screen like that with that kind of resolution.

If you absolutely want Sony, here are some decent gaming laptops.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

EDIT: I just saw your post. The ones you linked to are NOT gaming laptops. To get something with a decent frame rate you will have to look at the ones I linked to here.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque Yeah I'm not savvy about this stuff, but I'd buy a Sony before I bought a Toshiba. Besides the graphics card, that Toshiba doesn't seem very impressive for that price. Especially with that processor, it's way weaker. Is it possible to get a similar Sony with a graphics card that will work better for games?

I bought one of these a few months ago and am extremely happy. I've played ME2, DX:HR, Majicka and a bunch of other games with no problems.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834158198

Yes, it's a refurb, but I couldn't tell the difference. This is pretty much the best gaming value you could find.

There's another version of this model (dv6-6135, I think) that has Blu-Ray and a better chassis. Both of them go out of stock extremely quickly.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque Well, the Vaio seems to be the same price everywhere (Newegg included). The only problem is the graphics card (I really want something that will play games well at the highest settings at the right FPS).

Honestly, this is a tall order for any laptop without breaking the $800+ region.. And even then, your games will likely not be running at the highest possible settings most of the time.

Your safest bet. Stick to this advice (although personally I would go with the 2nd of the two options. I wouldn't even bother with a 520M at that price):

Originally Posted by thegreatest You have to pay extra for a dedicated card. Really Sony and Toshiba are both horrible brands for laptops. You want to look at ASUS, MSI, Lenovo, and iBUYPOWER. The problem is, to get a decent gaming laptop with a dedicated card (which you need to perform well) in a good brand, you will have to pay $700-800 if not more. What it comes down to is that you absolutely need a dedicated card for gaming. Integrated graphics aren't meant for it. Playing a game on low settings with a 800x600 resolution is NOT playable. You wouldn't even be able to read the words on a screen like that with that kind of resolution. If you absolutely want Sony, here are some decent gaming laptops. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo EDIT: I just saw your post. The ones you linked to are NOT gaming laptops. To get something with a decent frame rate you will have to look at the ones I linked to here.

Originally Posted by Golden Idol Alice: Madness returns is an outright terrible game. The only good things about the game are the art design and that's it. It steals game mechanics for Super Mario 64 for Christ's sake! It's not worth playing honestly. Skim through youtube to see the art and wikipedia the story. It's gameplay is boring.

I believe you have what is called an "outlier" opinion. And if I'm making a list of positives and negatives for a game, "mechanics like Super Mario 64" would fall into the positive category.

I'm in no way discounting your opinion, but it seems a bit outside the norm and certainly at odds with my own.

That one you linked doesn't even say what graphics card it has?

I don't really understand something "not being a gaming laptop". The specs put against "gaming laptops" are nearly identical, with the "gaming laptop" often having less RAM and a weaker processor. What's up with that?

I do understand that the ones linked have better graphics cards, but is that worth an extra $200-300 when you're actually getting WEAKER other components? I don't understand that.

Would it be possible to buy something like this:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-White...emium/19536281

But then swap the graphics card out for one that will work fine with games? Because that's a really good price in comparison to the other systems on Newegg that are being linked, except for the fact that it has a cruddy graphics card. Wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy the best and cheapest and swap the graphics card?

I've heard really good things about Vaios and their reliability, not to mention a friend of mine just bought one and is really happy with it. That's why I'm kind of steering in that direction. Still, I'm not set on one, but when I see links to these other laptops they really just don't seem worth the price.

And when it comes to this laptop (which is the only other one I've seen that seems more reasonable), even though it has a better card, it's got a weaker processor and less RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834127541

That just doesn't seem right.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque That one you linked doesn't even say what graphics card it has? I don't really understand something "not being a gaming laptop". The specs put against "gaming laptops" are nearly identical, with the "gaming laptop" often having less RAM and a weaker processor. What's up with that? I do understand that the ones linked have better graphics cards, but is that worth an extra $200-300 when you're actually getting WEAKER other components? I don't understand that. Would it be possible to buy something like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-White...emium/19536281 But then swap the graphics card out for one that will work fine with games? Because that's a really good price in comparison to the other systems on Newegg that are being linked, except for the fact that it has a cruddy graphics card. Wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy the best and cheapest and swap the graphics card? I've heard really good things about Vaios and their reliability, not to mention a friend of mine just bought one and is really happy with it. That's why I'm kind of steering in that direction. Still, I'm not set on one, but when I see links to these other laptops they really just don't seem worth the price.

I don't know much about laptops, but I don't think you can simply swap out a video card in most of them. The GPU is pretty important.. I would prioritize that over the amount of ram.

Huh... That sucks. That's just so odd why the "better" models have weaker specs and WAY higher prices... but have a different video card. If only I could just get the one I want... but have a different video card put in it. >_>

thinking about biting on Last Remnant, has there been a better price?

Originally Posted by Idiotekque That one you linked doesn't even say what graphics card it has?

I understand that it's difficult shopping for a computer... much less a gaming computer.. but: The laptop mentioned has a NVIDIA 540M.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque I don't really understand something "not being a gaming laptop". The specs put against "gaming laptops" are nearly identical, with the "gaming laptop" often having less RAM and a weaker processor. What's up with that?

If you want to use a laptop to play video games, you need to a DEDICATED graphics card. Bottom line. You're not going to get the same type of performance from anything else and really you're not going to be able to play anything other than some cheap casual-bin video games on an integrated graphics card. But since you said: "I really want something that will play games well at the highest settings at the right FPS," I'm guessing that's not the case.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque But then swap the graphics card out for one that will work fine with games? Because that's a really good price in comparison to the other systems on Newegg that are being linked, except for the fact that it has a cruddy graphics card. Wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy the best and cheapest and swap the graphics card?

Nope. It's really as difficult as possible to upgrade any piece of hardware inside of a manufacturers laptop. Other than increasing ram, you're not going to be given too many options.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque I've heard really good things about Vaios and their reliability, not to mention a friend of mine just bought one and is really happy with it. That's why I'm kind of steering in that direction. Still, I'm not set on one, but when I see links to these other laptops they really just don't seem worth the price.

I'm guessing your friend has very different intentions for their laptop. If you're going to browse the internet, play casual card games or web games or bejeweled or whatever, then I'm sure a cheap $400 walmart computer would work fine, but you just simply can't expect it to perform the same as any dedicated gaming computer.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque And when it comes to this laptop (which is the only other one I've seen that seems more reasonable), even though it has a better card, it's got a weaker processor and less RAM.

You're comparing an i7 to an i5. i7 > i5 in most cases. And while I'll agree that 4GB of ram might be a tad bit low for serious computing use, ram is one of the easiest and cheapest components to change in any laptop so you shouldn't fuss over that.

Originally Posted by exaznkid thinking about biting on Last Remnant, has there been a better price?

it was 10 dollars before on steam

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A couple people have said it's been at $10 before. I personally would wait for a lower price point, since you can buy it brand new for a console for $15 or so; even cheaper used.

Also, what would anyone say about this laptop?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Series-VP...485069&sr=1-12

The only kicker there seems to be the processor. How good is that graphics card though, and would that processor kinda kill the deal?

Thanks Op for shrinking the text down on the sale game list. That really big text was hard to read.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque A couple people have said it's been at $10 before. I personally would wait for a lower price point, since you can buy it brand new for a console for $15 or so; even cheaper used. Also, what would anyone say about this laptop? http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Series-VP...485069&sr=1-12 The only kicker there seems to be the processor. How good is that graphics card though, and would that processor kinda kill the deal?

That laptop has integrated graphics.. so I'd skip it. As others have said, you need a dedicated GPU for a gaming laptop.

HD in the name of the card = Integrated graphics, huh? I'm so effin' clueless.

Originally Posted by Idiotekque HD in the name of the card = Integrated graphics, huh? I'm so effin' clueless.

When it says "integrated on APU" that means that it has no dedicated GPU:

AMD Radeon HD 6320 graphics (integrated on APU)

Originally Posted by Idiotekque That one you linked doesn't even say what graphics card it has? I don't really understand something "not being a gaming laptop". The specs put against "gaming laptops" are nearly identical, with the "gaming laptop" often having less RAM and a weaker processor. What's up with that? I do understand that the ones linked have better graphics cards, but is that worth an extra $200-300 when you're actually getting WEAKER other components? I don't understand that. Would it be possible to buy something like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-White...emium/19536281 But then swap the graphics card out for one that will work fine with games? Because that's a really good price in comparison to the other systems on Newegg that are being linked, except for the fact that it has a cruddy graphics card. Wouldn't it be more cost effective to buy the best and cheapest and swap the graphics card? I've heard really good things about Vaios and their reliability, not to mention a friend of mine just bought one and is really happy with it. That's why I'm kind of steering in that direction. Still, I'm not set on one, but when I see links to these other laptops they really just don't seem worth the price.

I'm starting to think that you don't know the difference between a processor and a graphics card. The two Sonys I linked to have the same processor and the one you linked to for $850 has that same processor as well. The main price difference between the two I linked to is the fact that one has a blu ray drive and the other does not.

In order for something to be a gaming PC it needs a gaming graphics card. Processor and RAM really doesn't matter all that much. Honestly, those Sonys are very far behind when it comes to gaming capabilities.

Here is a good site to look at to get an idea of how a card will perform. The different cards are ranked along the right side.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...M.48313.0.html

Also, for your reference, I have a gaming laptop and I thought it may be helpful to link to an actual laptop made for gaming since none of the ones discussed so far really are. They have the ability to play some games (not very well), but aren't made for gaming. Here is the laptop I have:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834230142

Originally Posted by thegreatest I'm starting to think that you don't know the difference between a processor and a graphics card. The two Sonys I linked to have the same processor and the one you linked to for $850 has that same processor as well. The main price difference between the two I linked to is the fact that one has a blu ray drive and the other does not. In order for something to be a gaming PC it needs a gaming graphics card. Processor and RAM really doesn't matter all that much. Honestly, those Sonys are very far behind when it comes to gaming capabilities. Here is a good site to look at to get an idea of how a card will perform. The different cards are ranked along the right side. http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...M.48313.0.html Also, for your reference, I have a gaming laptop and I thought it may be helpful to link to an actual laptop made for gaming since none of the ones discussed so far really are. They have the ability to play some games (not very well), but aren't made for gaming. Here is the laptop I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834230142

No, I know the difference between a processor and graphics card. The problem was that I was seeing far cheaper laptops with 2.5GHz processors and 6GB of RAM put next to far more expensive laptops with 2.2GHz processors and 4GB of RAM. That didn't make sense to me, but the 2.2GHz i7 processors surpass the 2.4GHz i5 processors, right?

Going along the lines of RAM and processing speed not being a big deal, what's the lowest processor one should settle for in favor of a better graphics card? I'm trying to be extremely frugal here, which is annoying and sucks, but I don't really have a choice.


EDIT: How do the two cheapest ones on this page look? How are those graphics cards?

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/c...nu-id=products

Originally Posted by thegreatest Here is the laptop I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834230142

That's a great spec laptop (even a bit of overkill w/ 12GB of ram), but it sure is ugly as sin.. although to be honest, that's clearly not the intention. I kind of like how the bulk of the laptop gives that extra angle to the keyboard.

"But the 2.2GHz i7 processors surpass the 2.4GHz i5 processors, right?"

I'm not so computer literate so someone humor me. Is this quote correct or is the Ghz measure universal in that a higher number is always a better performer?