I don’t have any particular affinity for Scott Walker (in fact he killed a promising rail project I would have liked to see built) but I think recall pushers were very arrogant. I think this is the correct outcome.

Sucks to have people willingly sell themselves short but what did they think was going to happen? Most of the people rallying against him last year were those who voted Democrat anyway.

Exit polls had a preference for Obama. Thats bizarre. Who would vote for Obama AND Walker? They need to find one of these folks for an interview.

I consider Obama an extreme right winger, but most people that would vote for Walker do not.

Originally Posted by Dr Mario Kart I consider Obama an extreme right winger, but most people that would vote for Walker do not.

I like your style old bean.

Originally Posted by Dr Mario Kart Exit polls had a preference for Obama. Thats bizarre. Who would vote for Obama AND Walker? They need to find one of these folks for an interview. I consider Obama an extreme right winger, but most people that would vote for Walker do not.

Local Politics vs National Politics, they're two entirely separate beasts in the eyes of the voting public. There is zero correlation between how people vote for Governor vs how they vote for President, if anything there is a negative correlation. We had GOP Governors here in Connecticut for 2 decades, but no Republican Presidential candidate has even come close to winning here since George Bush in 1988.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...ial-elections/

Well, let's put it in some perspective here. More people voted for Barrett than the number of people that signed the petition, polls said that 60% of registered voters think that recalls should only be instituted if the official commits a crime, and I think it was 16% of Obama supporters supported Walker.

Considering that people believe that Unions=bad is a tautology on both "sides" of the aisle, I'm not surprised at all about the results. This is like a larger version of that town in Colorado? that decided to shut off street lights after a certain time to save money. The result? The lights weren't turned off equitably and were only shut off in the non-nice parts of town with the crime rate escalating. They also cutoff funding for public park upkeep and road repair. It's ing insane, but it looks like Wisconsin is the new Kansas.

As for being arrogant, I don't even know how one would quantify that considering the bullshit that Walker pulled by creating a deficit with corporate tax cuts and then blaming the teachers.

edit: Oh yeah, and Walker outspent Barrett 8:1 with more than half the money coming from out of state, so considering that, Barrett didn't do that bad considering he had already lost to him in the past.

Interesting that walker won with a bigger margin than when he was elected. Certainly doesn't bode well for union sentiment.

Maybe there is hope for the country after all.

I have to give republicans credit, they are a group of master manipulators. It's mind blowing what they can get the public to do and think. They've convinced are good number of people that Obama is a socialist, despite most people not even knowing wtf socialism is. They've managed to get people to turn on unions, despite the fact that unions were designed to help the very people now turning on them.

I can only wish that Democrats were that good at manipulating people.

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They aren't turning them on (private sector) unions, they are turning them on (public sector) unions. You are right though, (private sector) unions are great for the people that are represented by them. Either way, I got to vote for my boy scotty two times in two years.

Originally Posted by perdition(troy They aren't turning them on (private sector) unions, they are turning them on (public sector) unions. You are right though, (private sector) unions are great for the people that are represented by them. Either way, I got to vote for my boy scotty two times in two years.

You live in Wisconsin, the joke is on you.

Eh, its not that bad. Four distinct seasons, lots of things to do outdoors. Nothing strikes me as that much different from when I lived in PA or in FL. (other than the heat not being like Florida and there isn't rain on a daily basis).

Originally Posted by perdition(troy They aren't turning them on (private sector) unions, they are turning them on (public sector) unions. You are right though, (private sector) unions are great for the people that are represented by them. Either way, I got to vote for my boy scotty two times in two years.

How is it that private unions are ok, yet public ones are bad?

In Wisconsin's case, the teachers unions already agreed to almost all of the provisions except ending collective bargaining. We're talking pay freezes and reduced benefits. It's ing bonkers how education is so important, yet we continually persist as a county in valuing those that give it, less and less.

I hope you're not planning on having kids because Walker is going to completely over the school system now.

Originally Posted by Clak It's mind blowing what they can get the public to do and think.

Forgive me for using a television program to elucidate a point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEInZnbXHCE

Originally Posted by dopa345 Interesting that walker won with a bigger margin than when he was elected. Certainly doesn't bode well for union sentiment. Maybe there is hope for the country after all.

My sentiments exactly.

Maybe just maybe...it was a good sign.

You know, in a way I'm almost glad it turned out this way. Now Walker will have a full term to muck things up and eventually show that shortsighted solutions to long term problems aren't the answer.

Originally Posted by dohdough How is it that private unions are ok, yet public ones are bad? In Wisconsin's case, the teachers unions already agreed to almost all of the provisions except ending collective bargaining. We're talking pay freezes and reduced benefits. It's ing bonkers how education is so important, yet we continually persist as a county in valuing those that give it, less and less. I hope you're not planning on having kids because Walker is going to completely over the school system now.

Private unions = private owned, private money, and decisions can be made however the company wants it. If the union gets too outrageous in its demands for pay and benefits, the company runs itself out of business and ceases to make money (ie the city of Detroit).

Public unions = my tax money, and no competition. If the union says that they want x, y, and z and there just isn't the money then it just becomes a, "well I guess we'll strike and you can see how well the city functions without its police, fire department, and teachers".

You're right, they did agree to almost all of the provisions, ya know, after the law was passed and they saw the end of the money train. Then they saw that they could probably give a little here or there . Complaining about having to pay towards your own pension and healthcare isn't going to get you very far to anyone other than another teacher. Also, breaking collective bargaining allowed school districts to get their health insurance from companies other than just the teachers unions personal insurance (WEA) saving even more money. As crazy as it may seem, spending money =\= a better education.

I do plan on having kids, and would never put them into the failing public school system in the US. There are too many teachers that are in the high school version of "tenured" and no longer care about teaching, just about getting a few more years in and then collecting their pension that need to move out of the way for younger teachers with new ideas and a desire to shape new minds. If taking away collective bargaining rights removes the old "Teacher A has been there for 4 years and is the best teacher in the district, Teacher B has been there 20 years and is an awful teacher, budget cuts says we have to fire one teacher so sorry TA, we are keeping TB she has longer in the district" I'm all for it.

Originally Posted by nasum You know, in a way I'm almost glad it turned out this way. Now Walker will have a full term to muck things up and eventually show that shortsighted solutions to long term problems aren't the answer.

Ya, because long term solutions on how to save districts money on pensions, healthcare costs, and budget costs is shortsighted.

The "lazy teachers living a life of luxury" frame from the right remains one of the most astounding things I come across in modern political discourse.

It isn't a long term solution. It's a band-aid at best. It will also likely result in very good teachers leaving to find a place where their skills will be better compensated. I have friends in Hudson that have started to look for homes in Woodbury and other eastern ring suburbs as of today.

A long term solution would be to budget X% of tax revenue with 4 year projections.

Of course let's not forget the increased administrative costs of negotiating with each individual employee as oppossed to a Union Steward dealing with all the negotiations for the group.

Originally Posted by nasum It isn't a long term solution. It's a band-aid at best. It will also likely result in very good teachers leaving to find a place where their skills will be better compensated. I have friends in Hudson that have started to look for homes in Woodbury and other eastern ring suburbs as of today. A long term solution would be to budget X% of tax revenue with 4 year projections. Of course let's not forget the increased administrative costs of negotiating with each individual employee as oppossed to a Union Steward dealing with all the negotiations for the group.

They are still represented by the union.

Originally Posted by mykevermin The "lazy teachers living a life of luxury" frame from the right remains one of the most astounding things I come across in modern political discourse.

It's not a life of luxury, but it is a good life. I have no problem with them living the lives that they have and the pay that they receive is fine by me.

Well, clearly you do not if you support cuts to their total compensation packages and their power to negotiate those packages. That's trying to have it both ways.