Originally Posted by Lord_Kefka Wow. I can't believe I stayed up this late on a work night to replay from the beginning of the Cerberus Assault mission like they said. And they did it to me again. I got all into it, up until the very very end. I should have youtubed these from the start. Thinking I should sell my CE's now. Which hurts, cause ME2 ranks in my top games. So yeah, Reject ending was a wholesale rejection of the Indoctrination Theory. It would have been great to break the spell or do something outside of the box. Give them creative credit, but it was a backhanded slap. Even though you prove in the gameplay itself that the logic of the starchild is flawed. The Quarians picked the fight with the Geth, who just wanted their own chance to live. And you brought them together. But don't argue! Cause Casey knows what's best. Control and Synthesis are now the "good" endings. Without rehashing the whole argument, Destroy was the good ending because 1) Shepard can live, 2) it fits the theme of all three games, and 3) Control is impossible and Synthesis is a choice made against the will of all. It was even listed as the best possible ending in the official guide. Now it's the worst ending by far. Confirmed to kill EDI and the Geth. It's also the only one where I didn't see Jack for some odd reason. Guess the evil, indoctrinated enemy slave who caused in-fighting among their own people was right. Control was the way to go. Sure, that same logic and indoctrinated in-fighting ending the previous cycle, but it's all good now. Shepard is now the Lord. And everything is super happy. Same with synthesis, hell it even adds back all of the collective consciousness of the past cycles! Barf. I liked the clarification scenes for the most part. But it all smacks of rushed product more than creative vision. They said "we didn't expect everyone to think the relays were destroyed". Oh yeah, that's why they blew up previously and now only the rings inside break. Or how the Normandy is suddenly in much less distress and not completely stranded on a jungle world. Sure, it was on fire before and Joker looked like he was losing the ship, but let's clear that up for you. And of course the whole squadmates getting injured, picked up and the Normandy forced to retreat. Makes sense now, bravo. But I really don't see how I just "missed" it before. Sigh. It does what it said it would do. Unfortunately, in my opinion the whole ending was too rushed and too entrenched in their "creative decision" to ever be accepted. I'm out Bioware. Thanks for the ride.

Yeah, the Normandy in the original endings had massive damage when it crash lands on the planet, now it looks untouched.

And they shit all over the Destroy ending, as well as adding the trollish " you" reject ending (Which I initially liked for it's balls, but now it just pisses me off. Space magic or everybody dies.). Paragon Shepard follows the Illusive Man's example now? Admiral Anderson was a RENEGADE? The same Anderson who had beef with Saren for acting like goddamn renegade Shep?

And why the hell do they say to play through from the Cerberus Base and up? Nothing changes before the charge, why couldn't I have loaded my save from before the final fight and saved an hour? I honestly was worried the DLC hadn't loaded properly because there was NOTHING to signify it was the EC before the end.

To be honest, I don't know what I should have expected. Only thing that probably would have made me happy was an Indoctrination Theory ending so we could get rid of the space magic. The theory honestly still has fewer plotholes than the "real" endings, and the troll reject ending kinda reinforces it in it's own way.

Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 are some of my favorite games of all time, and there's a lot I love about Mass Effect 3. I'm not mad at Bioware, just disappointed with the direction they decided to take this series. Hopefully they can redeem themselves with a future project...(Don't up Dragon Age 3. PLEASE.)

After thinking about it more, I think the Mass Effect series is a good example of death by committee. I'm reminded of something Adam Carolla said once.

When did any art form get better by committee? Did anything ever get better, is there any great work, any concerto, any painting, any poet, where a hundred ing friends of your mom just stood there and said, I don't think I like it? Change that, Leonardo. That should be different. No, it's impossible.

When people said they want more closure, Bioware caved and gave it to them. When they wanted a Garrus romance, they caved and gave it to them. When they wanted Shepard to have gay sex because that's hip and progressive, they caved and gave it to them. When they wanted two different covers, one with femshep and one with broshep, two covers they received. When a vocal minority of whiny feminists complained when the blonde femshep won that stupid online poll, it was changed to the redhead femshep. When people wanted more accessible gameplay, we got Mass Effect 2: Modern Warfare, and Mass Effect 3: No Gameplay Mode. Even the default femshep was chosen by the so-called fans. This was all on top of whatever interference EA caused by virtue of simply being EA. Don't get me started on the ridiculous addition of multiplayer.

Bioware never once thought, "No, you. your requests. If you don't like it don't play it. Go make your own game with buttsex and fan fiction-level writing." In an effort to pander to everyone, to tolerate everybody and their mother's wishes, they alienated their core audience with each iteration. For example, making the game more accessible to women means, according to one Bioware staffer, giving players the option to skip gameplay. In the realm of stupid video game controversies, that statement is far more offensive than anything Anita Sarkeesian could think up.

I feel Bioware told the story they wanted to tell in Mass Effect. I think there's a lot to be said for the auteur theory. Not that a game like Mass Effect can be done without a team backing you up, but I think art is best when there is a strong leader who does not compromise on their vision for anyone, not the fans, not the publisher, no one.

For Mass Effect 3, I think they just wanted the most amount of people to like them and they failed miserably pandering to everyone.

For Mass Effect 3, they LITERALLY lied to everyone about what the ending would encompass. And then when they did the Extended Cut, they lied that wouldn't add an ending (they did), and that ending basically told them to off.

If that's pandering, then I misunderstand the definition of pandering.

It tells me they failed to stick to their artistic vision, but that shit was happening long before they decided to release The Extended Cut.

But that's sort of what the ending DLC was all about, continuing with the futile plan of trying to please everyone. Fans are inherently fickle, and you will never please anyone, but if you have a vision and stick to it, even the most cynical fan will respect you deep down.

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Originally Posted by JasonTerminator And why the hell do they say to play through from the Cerberus Base and up? Nothing changes before the charge, why couldn't I have loaded my save from before the final fight and saved an hour? I honestly was worried the DLC hadn't loaded properly because there was NOTHING to signify it was the EC before the end.

Because this is where your EMS is checked and locked in for the ending.

Wow, can we please not do the gay romance and Jennifer Hepler debates here.

I , too, stayed up way too late. But it was "Bad Decision Tuesday". I just did one ending, my canon ending, and was very pleased. The extra content was really strong. It felt complete, but not tacked on or too wordy where it dragged on. Great job, Bioware!

I did two endings yesterday before bed... and came away with mixed feelings. They're better than what they were, granted that's not saying much, and did much to improve on things but fail way short of actually fixing the game and while I'm happy on some level that Bioware did at least this it still doesn't excuse them for what they shipped and just how poorly they handled the whole thing...

Said it before and still mean it... The trilogy deserved a better conclusion than what it got and Bioware games have gone from a CE preorder (Day 1 buy) for me to a buy at some later point... like when its 20 bucks and my money doesn't affect their bottom line in the least.

Edit: Oh, yeah, more DLC teased...

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/06/26/ma...much-more-dlc/

Originally Posted by Arikado Because this is where your EMS is checked and locked in for the ending.

Good to know. I didn't have much time last night, only to the beginning of priority earth, and was wandering when I would see something new, and why I hadn't yet.

I am enjoying exploring the new content with the EC, but I'm really excited to hear about some single player DLC. This leviathon business sounds really interesting.

I played through the "red" ending last night and was very satisfied. I did not really hate the way it had originally been released, but this definitely was an improvement.

I'm about ready for some Shadow Broker scale DLC, please. I'd also love them to explore additional squadmates at some point. It took me a while to warm to Zaeed and Kasumi in 2--what with their lack of legit dialogs--but Kasumi ended up being one of my favorite squadmates.

Looking forward to seeing what they have planned.

Originally Posted by Ink.So.Well. The "Legend" save they are talking about should be the first auto save you come across. Are you saying you have none of those at all? Either way that save point isn't mandatory. You can use whatever you have available before Cerberus assault to experience "everything".

yeah I think I got it. I saw no autosave before Cerberus but one before the final Citadel. So I played that. I don't think the extended scenes really helped me understand. It was kinda of everything I assumed happened anyway.

For some reason one of my saves simply wasn't working which confused me.

Shepard's death in the first 10 minutes of ME2 was done better and had more impact to me than his "demise" in each ME3 ending.


Edit: Shit, I guess that's kind of a spoiler. Sorry. Not sure who in this thread isn't aware of the ending at this point though.

so I guess this is how the guy I ran into last night was doing it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTiIRbGr8nA

I wish they would have pandered on the ending. Despite all their accommodations, the story of most of the game was still great. It actually seems the opposite is true. One person had too much control over the end and no one told him he's retarded.

Originally Posted by KingBroly The Reject ending is basically Child: "We are Bioware. Don't like our choices? you! Game Over."

For once, I agree with you.

This ending had the most potential. Actually, every ending had a ton of potential that was just squandered. I can dig the new stuff a lot more than the old, but they royally ed up. The ending to a 3 game, 5 year series deserves more attention, or at least just as much attention, as the whole journey. Basically, Bioware dropped the ball.

And whoever said these new endings were just clarification. You basically told us nothing before, and we were just supposed to ensue all of the things you added. And you again, because you said the endings wouldn't change. Well guess what? They did, and they should have. Don't pretend you didn't screw up like seeing your squadmates picked up, or the mass relays are only "damaged" instead of "blown the up", or stupid ass Joker is so "ho-hum" instead of panicking. And the ship taking off from the planet they no longer crash land on. You guys are assholes, plain and simple.

My ranking of the endings:

1. Synthesis - My Shepard was a guy who would have saved as many people as he could have. It was great seeing everyone make it, and surpassing their greatness. Still a little retarded about how it all works, but it was the "happy" ending I hoped to have.

2. Control - Actually much cooler than I had expected.

3. Refusal - So much potential lost. Would have loved to have seen some new gameplay where you take on Harbinger or the Star Child as a way to reach your own ending, through your own means. Love the new star gazer scene though.

4. Destory - So much loss, for so little gain. For some reason, I still don't know why this is the only ending where Shepard survives.

All in all, I'm much more satisfied with the new endings. I would definitely have liked these a lot more, had I not seen the originals. They went for a "shit" ending to a bad ending.

I think every ending deserved to be way more personal, for everyone's own Shepard, and much longer and higher production values than a slide show. Is the in game engine really that expensive to use? I could have went for a MGS4, 1 hour long ending. Anyways, I'm ready for some new single player DLC. I'd prefer something that focuses on the events after the ending, but I doubt we'll get that.

Originally Posted by theredworm so I guess this is how the guy I ran into last night was doing it

Well shit, the Scorpion is one of my favorite guns. Guess I'll have to avoid it until this gets fixed. Thank God the Falcon isn't affected too.

EDIT: Nevermind, it affects my three favorite guns, Scorpion, Striker and Falcon. Great.

Originally Posted by dualedge2 They did a wholesale rejection of the Indoctrination Hypothesis (Yes, it's "hypothesis", not theory because a theory has to be backed up by something called "evidence" and be a little something else called "repeatable") months ago. Remember that whole panel BioWare had? Not once did they address, discuss, or even acknowledge its existence. The Indoctrination Hypothesis was out LONG ago. It was just that some refused to accept it.

Yes, I realize that Bioware pretty much snubbed the theory some time ago with their statements of "artistic vision". But as JasonTerminator eloquently stated, while it was far from perfect it had less plot holes and answered more questions than the original vision. The arguments made for it in the well-put together Youtube video had items that led more towards evidence than "magic star-child controls Reapers and the cycle". That was at no point foreshadowed. Sure, it may be "beyond comprehension", but then why try to explain all of your motivations and ask the player to make the decision on the ending?

Originally Posted by Spokker It tells me they failed to stick to their artistic vision, but that shit was happening long before they decided to release The Extended Cut. But that's sort of what the ending DLC was all about, continuing with the futile plan of trying to please everyone. Fans are inherently fickle, and you will never please anyone, but if you have a vision and stick to it, even the most cynical fan will respect you deep down.

Good point. It did smack of trying to literally add in community wishes instead of clarifying their vision. I did appreciate the additional exposition (for the most part), but a lot of it felt like "here you go, we're putting in what you want." And to be clear, that's not what we were most upset about. I didn't want "my" ending in the sense of exactly what I wanted to happen. A lot of people, including myself are happy to be told a story, but the original was like getting to the end and forgetting what happens. So you make general broad statements and end up painting yourself into a corner. Which leads to......

Originally Posted by Anexanhume I wish they would have pandered on the ending. Despite all their accommodations, the story of most of the game was still great. It actually seems the opposite is true. One person had too much control over the end and no one told him he's retarded.

Yep. The story was magnificent through-out and it seems like one person's vision over-rode all of the themes and storytelling. The new Control ending just flies in the face of the other 99% of the story, and it has the least downside. You don't kill synthetic life like in destroy, and you leave the rest of the galaxy free unlike the forced evolution of synthesis.

General additional ending thoughts:
The rejection ending actually felt like the ending that made the most sense with the story as told. If Shepard says "I won't make this choice for the galaxy", then the Crucible never fires and that cycle is wiped out. Sad, but left with hope that the Reapers will be defeated. Destroy was the closest after that, with unintended consequences of destroying all synthetic life. It's an imperfect ending, and fits the renegade Shepard most. A very "the ends justify the means" type scenario, where your synthetic buddies are offered up for sacrifice. Something a Paragon Shepard wouldn't choose lightly. Interestingly, the Renegade Shepard is the "default" canon Shepard for those late-comers to the game. Which felt like a punishment at the time, since it leads to more death and difficulty. Example: Wrex being dead from ME1, leaving Wreav to unite the Krogan and likely seek revenge against the other races.

Maybe this was the best we could get from them. You sacrifice, make all the Paragon choices, and the perfect ending just doesn't exist in this story. You aren't owed a happy ending in any sense. No one says just because you play by the hero's rules, that a somewhat bittersweet, imperfect human ending choice isn't the best that fate could deliver. I'm sorry, but I just have to reject Control and Synthesis. Those are just TOO "and they lived happily ever after". It doesn't fit. Say what you will about the theory, but it's proven that Saren was indoctrinated and desired synthesis. It only led to his manipulation and downfall as a puppet to a Reaper extinction event. The Illusive Man was also indoctrinated and sought control. The only difference between them and Shepard is that Shepard resisted them all the way through the end. Or maybe that was really the reason why Shepard could make the choice and change the laws of things. Because he/she did so of free will. I don't know. Maybe I was expecting more drawbacks from those choices because they did conflict with everything my Shepard stood for. It's almost insulting to just turn around and say "duh, we had to draw you map on what this ending means" when it is in such direct conflict with your central themes.

On that note, the Normandy picking up injured crew members and being forced to retreat, great. The Normandy crash was way different, I don't see how that isn't a change instead of clarification. The ship isn't as damaged and the escape isn't as frenzied. If it "could be easily repaired" like starchild said, I still think supplies and replacement parts might be hard to find on a non-industrialized garden world. But that's nitpicking I suppose. The idea is that they can repair and move on, but that feels more like a change. Same with the Mass Relays. Again, nitpicking says "how long does it take to repair them, especially since no one understood how to create them? They were all existing structures, the current cycle didn't make them." But the size of the explosion and damage is without a doubt reduced. I don't see how Bioware could possibly say we interpreted that wrong. A much bigger explosion + my comment about "who knows HOW to fix them?" = bad times. The slideshow was ok, big time pandering on seeing Zaeed with his feet up, sitting on a dock. Generally, getting the idea across that everyone goes home including Krogan and Quarians.

On a funny note, I noted on Youtube it always seemed to be Shepard's LI who tearily puts up his/her name on the memorial wall of the Normandy. In my game, it was Kaiden. I had pissed off Liara by hooking up with Miranda while keeping her on the line. Didn't romance Tali, so they decided Kaiden would be the one. I was just trying to be Paragon, didn't mean for so much homo-erotic subtext. I turned him down at the Citadel. Guess he was still carrying a torch.

Overall, I guess this did it's job. I still want to see low EMS results, and how the slideshow can differ. All the ones I saw were Genophage cured, Quarians alive kind of thing. I want to know how it's different if you screwed over the Krogan or chose the Geth over the Quarians type of thing. Generally, I don't know if I like the endings any better know, but I think I'm ready to move on from this game. It hung over me like a bad breakup. Now I got a little closure, some stuff doesn't make sense, I have some questions unanswered. Just like a real life breakup.

after the first round where he killed everything with a rocket I sat back and waited 11 min for the full clear on gold, you can guess who glitched