(2) applied the Ryan reforms to Medicare and Medicaid (or, alternatively, folded in Medicare and Medicaid acute-care into the PPACA exchanges); (3) equalized the tax treatment of employer-sponsored and individually-purchased insurance; and (4) not increase taxes or the deficit.

That's the problem right there and exactly what I was referring to. There can be no bipartisan bill when one person wants fire and the other person wants water.

That seems like a pretty big compromise. Universal coverage + privatizing Medicare.

Originally Posted by Blaster man (2) applied the Ryan reforms to Medicare and Medicaid (or, alternatively, folded in Medicare and Medicaid acute-care into the PPACA exchanges); (3) equalized the tax treatment of employer-sponsored and individually-purchased insurance; and (4) not increase taxes or the deficit. That's the problem right there and exactly what I was referring to. There can be no bipartisan bill when one person wants fire and the other person wants water.

Your original point was that republicans refused to participate and I argued that was not true. You put blame on the republicans and I disproved that. Again this was a partisan bill with no compromise by the democrats that had all the power. It was a democrat act ram rodded through. I posted the article because it again disproves your original point. Now if you want to change it and say they did try to participate but you just didn't LIKE a comprised bill and the shit pile democrat bill was better than a compromised bill that accomplishes much more and isn't mostlyl shit like the democrats one...that is another story altogether.

I for one like parts of the democrat and the republican plans and believe a better non-partisan act could have been passed. But since the democrats had the power and wanted it ALL their way that didn't happen.

And your argument that somehow those that had all the power are not to blame boggles the mind. How do you compromise with the democrats who have all the power know it and think that only their plan is the shiznet and refuse to represent all the people and do a bi-partisan bill? The democrats used their power and in a bad way and forced their self-righteous plan on everyone else...why becasue they could.

You lost on your point as it was not true.

edit: again they could not and were not allowed to partcipate.

Originally Posted by Pliskin101 Your original point was that republicans refused to participate and I argued that was not true. You put blame on the republicans and I disproved that. Again this was a partisan bill with no compromise by the democrats that had all the power. It was a democrat act ram rodded through. I posted the article because it again disproves your original point. Now if you want to change it and say they did try to participate but you just didn't LIKE a comprised bill and the shit pile democrat bill was better than a compromised bill that accomplishes much more and isn't mostlyl shit like the democrats one...that is another story altogether. I for one like parts of the democrat and the republican plans and believe a better non-partisan act could have been passed. But since the democrats had the power and wanted it ALL their way that didn't happen. And your argument that somehow those that had all the power are not to blame boggles the mind. How do you compromise with the democrats who have all the power know it and think that only their plan is the shiznet and refuse to represent all the people and do a bi-partisan bill? The democrats used their power and in a bad way and forced their self-righteous plan on everyone else...why becasue they could. You lost on your point as it was not true. edit: again they could not and were not allowed to partcipate.

Originally Posted by Blaster man Pliskin, I'm not going to quote your post because most of it is irrelevant insults. Instead I will say this, the Democrats tried working with Republicans but you don't seem to want to accept this. The fact is, the Republicans didn't have anything to contribute other than cuts and rolling back Medicare. Note that the Medicare rollback comes with tax cuts which means that it wouldn't even save money which is supposedly what they care about.

Really? Exactly as I said. The Republican's won't participate in a bipartisan manner. All they will do is make unrealistic demands to disband government. You can argue all you want about this nonsense but most people don't think medicare should be gone and the democrats will never allow it to happen. In fact, the republican's won't either but they pushed this plan because they thought it would get them votes.

Anyway, arguing with you is pointless. You don't want to admit that the Republican's chose to push plans that they knew were unacceptable to Democrats. Maybe the Republican house has a plan to increase military spending and the Democrats put out a plan to completely eliminate the military. Well gee, why the hell won't the Republican's work in a bipartisan manner? You really don't seem to get it so I'm not going to bother discussing this issue anymore.

Moving on, it's Constitutional and I love it. Now it will be around forever.

Originally Posted by Strell Hey guys, does the sun revolve around the Earth?

You betcha! Just like the world is flat and people used to ride dinosaurs.

Originally Posted by Blaster man There was no trickery in Congress. It was the Senate's bill, not Obama's bill. The republicans had a chance to participate but chose to be as partisan as possible. They KNEW this outcome was possible yet still refused to participate because of extremist tea bangers.

As I said, you said: refused to work with and that it was the republicans fault. When I addressed that then you said in the next post a "few republicans" and then you changed it after that to well I didn't like what they were offering.

Guess what you were wrong pal. I addressed you and disproved your claim and then you change it to.... well I didn't like what they offered ... that isn't the same as well they offered nothing now is it?

So bottom line again is the democrats had a super majority REFUSED to have the bill any other way or bi-partisan. They wanted it all their way and because they could have it all their way THEY DID. Well their bill ALL THEIR WAY is a pile of shit with a few chocolate chips in it and there in no one else to blame for this CRAP then the idiot democrats who think that they know everything and what is best for EVERYONE regardless of what other people say or want.

As I said this is a great lesson why one political party should never have all legislative and executive power. No one special interest should ever have so much power. They did and they used it in a destructive selfish self-righteous manner.

Originally Posted by Blaster man Moving on, it's Constitutional and I love it. Now it will be around forever.

What makes you think or even want the whole thing in all it's crapness to be around forever? You are happy with ALL of it?

"FOREVER" LMAO

Get another thing....it is upheld by the consitution the same consitution that allows this to be repealed and changed. So the ruling does not make it set in stone forever. Thank goodness.

It should and will be changed. Have no doubt that it will be changed for the better. Not left in it's entirty of crapness that the democrats forced on everyone.

Originally Posted by Pliskin101 As I said, you said: refused to work with and that it was the republicans fault. When I addressed that then you said in the next post a "few republicans" and then you changed it after that to well I didn't like what they were offering. Guess what you were wrong pal. I addressed you and disproved your claim and then you change it to.... well I didn't like what they offered ... that isn't the same as well they offered nothing now is it? So bottom line again is the democrats had a super majority REFUSED to have the bill any other way or bi-partisan. They wanted it all their way and because they could have it all their way THEY DID. Well their bill ALL THEIR WAY is a pile of shit with a few chocolate chips in it and there in no one else to blame for this CRAP then the idiot democrats who think that they know everything and what is best for EVERYONE regardless of what other people say or want. As I said this is a great lesson why one political party should never have all legislative and executive power. No one special interest should ever have so much power. They did and they used it in a destructive selfish self-righteous manner.

I have no idea what you're going on about. You seem to be self-righteous here. I don't give a shit what my first post said. You can go back to the first post after the discussion progresses if you chose to do so but I'm not an English professor and I have no intention of arguing plurals or tenses with you. You can feel like you "won" the internet argument if you wish but everyone knows that the republican's did not put forth a plan, they put forth a joke equivalent to the democrats putting out a military budget of zero and asking why the republican's won't work with them. So yes, you WIN, they put out a bill if you consider that a bipartisan attempt. In the real world, such an attempt is all grand-standing when they know it has issues that make it 100% unacceptable. They created that bill in order to say they put something out there knowing that the Democrats wouldn't accept it.

If the Democrats put out a plan to zero out the military budget, does that make their bill a bipartisan attempt? Give me a ing break. Go act all high and mighty with someone else because I don't fall for that bullshit like you do.

It's goddamn pathetic when you're arguing politics and you don't know jack shit about it. Claiming this bill that the Republican's put out there was a bipartisan effort is either completely disingenuous (probably the case) or you need to go actually learn about politics and stop believing whatever shit you heard in the media. This is what's wrong with this country. There's too many people that believe lip service is real bipartisanship. There is no bipartisanship in this country anymore. The Democrats would have bent over backwards to get just ONE republican sign on.

You are a idiot... you don't understand bipartisan at all that is painfully obvious.
The democrats did not bend over backwards not even close and in fact it was just the opposite and that has been proved....and is a well known FACT.

You are just making up shit now and were then.

You are just rambling off BS to ramble off BS.

I am just amazed how stupid you are. Take your own advice and go learn something about politics you might want to start with the word bipartisan...here I will help you..


"representing, characterized by, or including members from two parties or factions: Government leaders hope to achieve a bipartisan foreign policy."

There you go using definitions to claim that proves your point instead of using common sense. Next time the military budget is up, if the Democrats propose to zero it out and shut it down completely, that's a bipartisan effort. Got it.

I'm done hitting my head against a wall trying to explain common sense to someone that only reads the dictionary for fun. Okay you WIN, the republicans are completely bipartisan. They try to work with the democrats on EVERYTHING. In fact, they're as centrist as you can come. Hell, when you look up "centrist" I bet boners's picture is right there (beside yours). Good job on your victory. You've proven to everyone on CAG that the republicans were trying to legitimately work with the democrats. I congratulate you on your victory.

Originally Posted by Blaster man There you go using definitions to claim that proves your point instead of using common sense. Next time the military budget is up, if the Democrats propose to zero it out and shut it down completely, that's a bipartisan effort. Got it. I'm done hitting my head against a wall trying to explain common sense to someone that only reads the dictionary for fun. Okay you WIN, the republicans are completely bipartisan. They try to work with the democrats on EVERYTHING. In fact, they're as centrist as you can come. Hell, when you look up "centrist" I bet boners's picture is right there (beside yours). Good job on your victory. You've proven to everyone on CAG that the republicans were trying to legitimately work with the democrats. I congratulate you on your victory.

I never said the republicans are completely bipartisan NEVER. There you go making up shit again.

Originally Posted by Pliskin101 You are a idiot...

God, these are always my favorites...

The argument over whether the debate was bipartisan is largely irreverent. Its something that might have mattered when the bill was still being debated. The whole problem now is that so many people have bought into a bill that is essentially a bailout to the health insurance industry. It forces the poor and middle-class to buy health care they cannot necessarily afford. These people receive a subsidy, yes, but they still end up paying a significant amount for health care. There's no negotiation of drug prices. And of course, the Supreme Court ruling shows that the federal government has unlimited taxing power. (Other bad Supreme Court rulings: Citizens United, Bush v. Gore, Plessy v. Ferguson.) Considering that the president now has nearly unlimited power to wage wars, surveil and kill people without due process, I'm starting to wonder if anyone cares about limitation of powers or the Constitution anymore.

So seriously, can someone explain this to me in a non crazy way.

I thought that, like everyone other product or service on the planet, if everyone has access to it the price come down overall. If everyone has health insurance then there is less need to charge 2 times the actually amount because you are more likely to receive payment correct?

I am not getting this at all.

Also, repubs seem to bank on the fact that big business has a heart when it has been proven time and time again that they dont. I actually do not like big government I would rather have the market work itself out...but that only works when humans stop acting like human and actually care about one another which is almost impossible.


If business really cared about health care they would have naturally done something about it themselves a long time ago.

Originally Posted by Soodmeg So seriously, can someone explain this to me in a non crazy way. I thought that, like everyone other product or service on the planet, if everyone has access to it the price come down overall. If everyone has health insurance then there is less need to charge 2 times the actually amount because you are more likely to receive payment correct? I am not getting this at all. Also, repubs seem to bank on the fact that big business has a heart when it has been proven time and time again that they dont. I actually do not like big government I would rather have the market work itself out...but that only works when humans stop acting like human and actually care about one another which is almost impossible. If business really cared about health care they would have naturally done something about it themselves a long time ago.

Sounds to me like you understand it fine.

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I dont see how people can say this is a good thing

SAY your making 25,000 a year working for a company that offers heath care

When this goes into effect the choice for the place you work at is

PAY heath care for 8,000 per person
or
PAY the fine for 2,000 per person and the job picks the fine

Now you have to go out and BUY Heath care

You either buy it at 3,000 bucks or Pay the fine at 1500


So now instead of having a job that paid 25,000 you have a job that pays 22,000 since you have to pay 3,000 for your own heath care

More on this 'crappy' bill....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Etww...feature=relmfu

Highlights from this... The PENALTY (not tax) will affect 2-3% of Americans... and at worst, cost you 1-2.5% of your income. Granted, it's my favorite liberal Cenk Uygur, but he's always atleast accurate and is actually firing back at Conservative Jabba the Hut Rush Limbaugh's ridiculous partisanship.

LOL at all the conservative "Middle class got FUUUUUU' in this thread

It's incredibly disingenuous for republicans to act like they give a damn about the middle class.

Originally Posted by slidecage I dont see how people can say this is a good thing SAY your making 25,000 a year working for a company that offers heath care When this goes into effect the choice for the place you work at is PAY heath care for 8,000 per person or PAY the fine for 2,000 per person and the job picks the fine Now you have to go out and BUY Heath care You either buy it at 3,000 bucks or Pay the fine at 1500 So now instead of having a job that paid 25,000 you have a job that pays 22,000 since you have to pay 3,000 for your own heath care

Ok. American and their selective outrage confuses me. We are all ok with Apple Inc working 3rd world workers to the point that they commit suicide on a daily basis. We were all ok when BP destroy and entire ecosystem for generations to come. We are also ok with many many Wall Street company waging war on each other at the expensive of our homes, jobs, security.

All of those things we have decided that we are pretty ok with...(we dicided that by not actually taking any real action against such things) why the outrage at keeping people healthy in some way? Does it cost money? Yep but with all the things we spend money on how is health cross the line?

Your ok with America building yet another super missile that they can control from a couch that cost 2.3 billion but a couple thousand for health for the population is far too costly?

It makes no sense....

I am sick of people pretending America is so great and basing decision on fallacy. Yes, its better than living in a hut in Kenya but when Repubs get to talking they pretend that anyone who didnt take over then layoff 3 company while pocketing millions are "just not trying hard enough" so they dont deserve anything.

American Business have huge advantages in so many ways embarrassing...non legal workers, corp loopholes, creative tax payment so being forced to get health care of your workers isnt that big of a deal.

Just dont get it...being forced to help is the line we should never cross but its ok to layoff 200 workers so that your stock goes up .20 cents? Get over yourself corp America.