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Florida's Voting Machine Problems

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Old 07-28-2004, 11:25 AM   #1
Florida's Voting Machine Problems

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Some Fla. election electronic records lost
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By HILARY ROXE

July 28, 2004 $|$ MIAMI (AP) -- A computer crash erased detailed records from Miami-Dade County's first widespread use of touchscreen voting machines, raising again the specter of elections troubles in Florida, where the new technology was supposed to put an end to such problems.

The crashes occurred in May and November of 2003, erasing information from the September 2002 gubernatorial primaries and other elections, elections officials said Tuesday.

The malfunction was made public after the Miami-Dade Election Reform Coalition, a citizen's group, requested all data from the 2002 gubernatorial primary between Democratic candidates Janet Reno and Bill McBride.

In December, officials began backing up the data daily, to help avoid similar data wipeouts in the future, said Seth Kaplan, spokesman for the county's elections supervisor, Constance Kaplan.

The loss of data underscores problems with the touchscreen voting machines, the citizen's group said. "This is a disaster waiting to happen," said Lida Rodriguez-Taseff, chairwoman of the Miami-Dade Election Reform Coalition. "Of course it's worrisome."

The group is concerned about the machines' effectiveness, following revelations about other problems with the system. Last month, state officials said the touchscreen systems used by 11 counties had a bug that would make a manual recount impossible. Earlier this month, a newspaper study indicated touchscreen machines did not perform as well as those that scanned paper ballots.

Also Tuesday, election reform groups asked a judge to strike down a state rule preventing counties that use the machines from conducting manual recounts from them.

State election officers say manual recounts are not needed since the machines tell each voter if they are skipping a race, known as an undervote, and will not let them vote twice for the same race, known as an overvote. The officials also maintain that the computer systems running the machines can be trusted to count the votes accurately as they're cast, and give the final numbers when needed.

But lawyers representing the ACLU and other groups said the state should require a paper trail in case a physical recount is needed, as it was in the 2000 presidential race in Florida.

"I have concern about votes that are cast but not recorded," said Howard Simon, executive director for ACLU of Florida.

Election supervisors from some of the 15 counties using touchscreens had asked the state if they would need to go through the laborious process of printing screen images of each ballot during a recount.

The Division of Elections then ruled that state law only requires a recount to determine voters' intent, and that it is impossible to question voter intent with touchscreen ballots.

Florida counties without the touchscreen machines use optiscan technology, in which computers read voters' pencil marks on paper ballots, and would be able to do physical recounts in tight races.

Administrative Law Judge Susan B. Kirkland has 30 days to make her decision after receiving the hearing transcript, which is due back in 10 working days.

Florida's voting system has been under scrutiny since the 2000 debacle, when it took five weeks of legal maneuvering and some recounting before Republican George W. Bush was declared president.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:18 PM   #2
Here in Virginia we are required by law to use those same machines.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:22 PM   #3
Yeah, I'm in VA too.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:25 PM   #4
No surprise...

The electronic voting machine is THE WORST thing to happen to America in a long time.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:31 PM   #5
It doesn't matter how terrible they are, they seem like a good idea to anybody who doesn't know anything about them and is naive; that's over 90% of voters, and over 99% of decision makers.
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:38 PM   #6
the just need to keep it simple there a ftp website that show you how to crack 3 or more different machines. and they evened showed how easy it was to crack one on screen savers (before g4 days)
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Old 07-28-2004, 12:41 PM   #7
Whats the url for that site?
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Old 07-28-2004, 02:12 PM   #8
Those same voting machines are causing problems in California too! Unfortunately, they are being made by a California company (Whose name I forget) and they are lobbying hard to keep the machines going..
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Old 07-28-2004, 02:22 PM   #9
lets make sure an all Republican task force is put in charge of votin like last time. It worked wonders, especially in the black communities.
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Old 07-28-2004, 03:02 PM   #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xevious
Those same voting machines are causing problems in California too! Unfortunately, they are being made by a California company (Whose name I forget) and they are lobbying hard to keep the machines going..
Diebold.
Their board of directors give quite a bit of money to one of our nation's political parties. Care to guess which one?

The other large manufacturer of voting machines is ES&S. Their machines will be used in some other states in the 2004 election. Coincidently they also give money to the same political party.
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Old 07-28-2004, 03:07 PM   #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xevious
Those same voting machines are causing problems in California too! Unfortunately, they are being made by a California company (Whose name I forget) and they are lobbying hard to keep the machines going..
Diebold.
Their board of directors give quite a bit of money to one of our nation's political parties. Care to guess which one?
Wait, wait, I think I know this...

"committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next
year." - Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc.
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Old 07-28-2004, 03:30 PM   #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldad9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xevious
Those same voting machines are causing problems in California too! Unfortunately, they are being made by a California company (Whose name I forget) and they are lobbying hard to keep the machines going..
Diebold.
Their board of directors give quite a bit of money to one of our nation's political parties. Care to guess which one?
Wait, wait, I think I know this...

"committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next
year." - Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc.

Thanks for reminding me of the Company's name. And thanks for letting me do my 300th post.
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:08 PM   #13
What people fail to realize in trying to fix what happened in Florida is a simple maxim:

Perfection is the enemy of good.

CTL
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:09 PM   #14
What people fail to realize in trying to fix what happened in Florida is a simple maxim:

Perfection is the enemy of good.

CTL
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:26 PM   #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTLesq
What people fail to realize in trying to fix what happened in Florida is a simple maxim:

Perfection is the enemy of good.

CTL
Are you saying we should keep the current machines so Bush can easily win?

Thats not democracy.
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:29 PM   #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackzilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTLesq
What people fail to realize in trying to fix what happened in Florida is a simple maxim:

Perfection is the enemy of good.

CTL
Are you saying we should keep the current machines so Bush can easily win?

Thats not democracy.
You really are a troubled little boy arnt you?
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:33 PM   #17
They aren't going to use those machines in Ohio now because of the security issues involved. BTW Diebold is based in Canton, OH
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Old 07-29-2004, 09:33 PM   #18
the security seriously does need to be tightened up.

I think it might have been in my town, but there was like a group of blacks at the votign place who would send a couple of people out to get drunken and/or homeless people. Then they'd bring em back, give them a voting card with the candidate that they wanted the people to vote for already marked and sent the people in to turn in the voting slips
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:23 AM   #19
I don't see any problems with Florida's voting machines. The Diebold guy just left and all the routers and equipment Jeb Bush had sent to my house will properly ensure that I'm giving Florida to GW.

What problem? I don't see a problem. It works just fine. Want to watch me elect Mickey Mouse as a write in candidate in Palm Beach County? Wait until you see which of the Golden Girls gets elected to Miami city council.

This election is going to be so much fun. I have a whole state at my beck and call through my iMac.
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:48 AM   #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikohn4ever
lets make sure an all Republican task force is put in charge of votin like last time. It worked wonders, especially in the black communities.
Funny you should say that. Florida leaves election operations to county officials. In each of the three problem counties during the 2000 election the county commisioners were all Democrats.

But don't let that shatter your dearly held mythology.
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