Advertisement

Register for free to remove this ad

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGGS7VRH31.DTL

Lots of our tax money went down the drain.

Oh that the same level of dilligence and interest was being paid to the "Oil for Palaces Program" run by the UN.

Originally Posted by CTLesq Oh that the same level of dilligence and interest was being paid to the "Oil for Palaces Program" run by the UN.

Yeah, those accusations came from Chialbi, a convicted embezzler, who refused to show the proof he had of it. Then all his computers were seized. Funny how this story died out.

OMG.... you mean war profiteering exists? You mean we haven't been able to transcend 4,000 years of human history in this conflict? Oh my.... we're doomed.

So, if I murder you & your family, it's simply that I haven't been able to transcend millenia of human barbarism, and thus, it's ok?

Awesome.

seppo

Boy... that's a well reasoned response to a conversation about people making questionable profits.

Bravo.

Originally Posted by PittsburghAfterDark Boy... that's a well reasoned response to a conversation about people making questionable profits. Bravo.

Like your's was.

The topic is inane. The reason no one discusses these "profiteering" stories, other than angry liberals, is that every person with a brain knows financial abuses take place in light of war and confusion. It's happened in every war man has ever fought including every war this country ever fought.

You do your best to minimize it, of course but 27 cases? In a year? With how many billions of tax dollars being spent in Iraq? So 1 case every two weeks? I'm supposed to care? I'm supposed to get fired up? I'm supposed to demand something be done?

If I went and did a complete audit of people receiving SSI on a fradulent disability claim, people making false Medicaid/Medicare claims or exaggerated claims do you think I would find more than 27 cases to prosecute in a year?

This isn't news to anyone.

Originally Posted by PittsburghAfterDark The topic is inane. The reason no one discusses these "profiteering" stories, other than angry liberals, is that every person with a brain knows financial abuses take place in light of war and confusion. It's happened in every war man has ever fought including every war this country ever fought. You do your best to minimize it, of course but 27 cases? In a year? With how many billions of tax dollars being spent in Iraq? So 1 case every two weeks? I'm supposed to care? I'm supposed to get fired up? I'm supposed to demand something be done?

Well I guess it would certainly help if the GOP didn't block amendments to create stiffer penalties for war profiteers.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0604/061704cdam1.htm

I'm sorry you don't care about the govt wasting our money, but this is what happens with no oversight. To say "oh well this always happens" is nonsense. People complain that we spend too much helping other countries or on welfare, but when it is shown how money is wasted, they go "oh well" I'm sure if this came out during a dem administration the right wing media would be frothing at the mouth.

Your point, PAD, apparently was, s**t happens. My point, was, if I do s**t to you, then is that sufficient justification? S**t happens?

See, I thought it addressed your point exactly. Shouldn't have relied on your ability to think.

Guess that was my problem.

seppo

I tell you what helava. If you ever came near my family, if you ever threatened my family I would remove your gead from your shoulders with a twelve gague and they'd be removing your body in a bucket. There's my response to you.

right. Ok, here's a new concept for you - I have no desire to threaten you, or your family. It's a rhetorical device, ok? I take your argument to what I believe is a logical extreme, in order to illustrate how thoughtless and stupid it is. Then, you say, gee, if I apply the same logic to my statement, it *does* seem silly.

Now, what you've done is basically shown everyone else that you're a hypocrite, see? War profiteering is simply human barbarism at work, and we can't expect people to rise beyond it. Murder is simply human barbarism at work, and we can't expect people to rise beyond it. Yet, we should, or you'll blow their heads off.

Delightful!

Just to clarify, because PAD doesn't seem to be able to follow from concept to concept. Here it is in one sentence:

War profiteering is bad, and "losing" a billion dollars should be punishable.

Got it?

Thanks for making my point, buddy!

seppo

War profiteering is simply human barbarism at work, and we can't expect people to rise beyond it.

Oh curious sir, we're not talking about war profiteering here. War profiteering is invading a country and stealing their wealth. It is having paintings, jewels, gold and national treasures "disappearing" into the sands of history. You don't even understand the concept between war profiteering and standard government corruption.

Iraq invaded Kuwait and plundered gold, money, cars, televisions, rugs and just about anything not nailed down. That is war profiteering, that is a war of conquest.

What you have here is not theft of a conquered nation. What you have here is people taking advantage of a system put in place that has billions of dollars floating around for various "reconstruction". This is not us stealing Iraqi money this is the same as overcharging for things or taking part in government programs.

You aren't motivated in condeming this because it's government waste. If you were you'd be outraged that $1.5 trillion dollars was assigned to entitlement programs. Entitlement programs without necessary means testing and entitlement programs that get as few as 12 cents of every dollar to the end recipient. If you cared about government waste, if you truly cared, you would be screaming bloody murder over this.

Instead you cry about 27 fraud cases in one year for a war you disagree with. Instead of the unquestioned hundreds of thousands of clear cut cases of fraud and horrible track record of government waste in our major entitlements programs. You're a hypocrite of the nth degree and you know it.

So, if I murder you & your family, it's simply that I haven't been able to transcend millenia of human barbarism, and thus, it's ok?

This is a legitimate debating point to you? This illustrates your superior intellect? Or does it make you look like a reporter who asks someone "So when did you stop beating your wife.".

Murder is simply human barbarism at work, and we can't expect people to rise beyond it. Yet, we should, or you'll blow their heads off.

Your statement makes no sense. Of course murder is barbarism. What, are you daft? If you're not going to threaten an act of murder aginst my loved ones yes... unquestionably I am going to put an end to your life.

Clear enough for you?

Just for those who missed it in the article I posted earlier:

Republicans Wednesday blocked an effort by Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., and Judiciary ranking member Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., to create stiffer criminal penalties for war profiteering. The Leahy/Daschle amendment to the fiscal 2005 defense authorization bill would have created new penalties -- including up to 20 years in jail -- for government contractors convicted of inflating the cost of goods or services. It was defeated 52-46.

Zell Miller was the only Democrat to vote against it.

I haven't seen that bill MBE or read anything about it. But quite honestly "inflating the costs of goods and services"? That's the guideline? That's every step of American business. From producer, wholesaler, retailer to consumer every step inflates the costs of goods and services.

As presented that article is too nebulous to comment on.

It's easy to comment on. Watch - Republicans would not vote to increase the penalties for war profiteers. It doesn't say anything about increasing the definition of war profiteers, just the penalties and Republicans would not do it. Frankly, I find that disgusting. And I'm not singling out any specific company. Anyone guilty of profiteering should be punished.

Originally Posted by ZarathosNY Yeah, those accusations came from Chialbi, a convicted embezzler, who refused to show the proof he had of it. Then all his computers were seized. Funny how this story died out.

Tell that to the ongoing investigation run by Paul Voelker.

Ask him why Kofi Annan keeps stone-walling.

No offense, by claiming the accusations where all Chialbi shows a great deal of ignorance.

CTL

Originally Posted by MrBadExample Well I guess it would certainly help if the GOP didn't block amendments to create stiffer penalties for war profiteers. http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0604/061704cdam1.htm

If you are going to make this partisan, it would help if the Democratic Nominee for President bothered to vote on the amendment.

Originally Posted by PittsburghAfterDark War profiteering is simply human barbarism at work, and we can't expect people to rise beyond it. Oh curious sir, we're not talking about war profiteering here. War profiteering is invading a country and stealing their wealth. It is having paintings, jewels, gold and national treasures "disappearing" into the sands of history. You don't even understand the concept between war profiteering and standard government corruption. Iraq invaded Kuwait and plundered gold, money, cars, televisions, rugs and just about anything not nailed down. That is war profiteering, that is a war of conquest. What you have here is not theft of a conquered nation. What you have here is people taking advantage of a system put in place that has billions of dollars floating around for various "reconstruction". This is not us stealing Iraqi money this is the same as overcharging for things or taking part in government programs. You aren't motivated in condeming this because it's government waste. If you were you'd be outraged that $1.5 trillion dollars was assigned to entitlement programs. Entitlement programs without necessary means testing and entitlement programs that get as few as 12 cents of every dollar to the end recipient. If you cared about government waste, if you truly cared, you would be screaming bloody murder over this. Instead you cry about 27 fraud cases in one year for a war you disagree with. Instead of the unquestioned hundreds of thousands of clear cut cases of fraud and horrible track record of government waste in our major entitlements programs. You're a hypocrite of the nth degree and you know it. So, if I murder you & your family, it's simply that I haven't been able to transcend millenia of human barbarism, and thus, it's ok? This is a legitimate debating point to you? This illustrates your superior intellect? Or does it make you look like a reporter who asks someone "So when did you stop beating your wife.". Murder is simply human barbarism at work, and we can't expect people to rise beyond it. Yet, we should, or you'll blow their heads off. Your statement makes no sense. Of course murder is barbarism. What, are you daft? If you're not going to threaten an act of murder aginst my loved ones yes... unquestionably I am going to put an end to your life. Clear enough for you?

Sorry PAD, but what you are describing is pillaging, not war profiteering. It always amazed me how right-wing thinking always defies logic.