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Good to see Dems calling a spade a spade:


DES MOINES -- Sen. Tom Harkin called Vice President Dick Cheney a "coward" for avoiding service in Vietnam and called on President Bush to end the "backdoor draft."

The Iowa Democrat was responding Friday to the call-up of a Des Moines police officer who has already completed his eight-year military commitment.

Harkin echoed comments earlier this week by Des Moines Police Chief William McCarthy, who said the military's treatment of Des Moines Police Officer Rodell Nydam was "evil."

Nydam, 26, is being called back to Iraq despite finishing his National Guard commitment in April. He's being called up under the military's "stop loss" exemption, which can extend duty in wartime.

Harkin, who served as a jet pilot in the Navy, said the exemption wasn't intended for situations like the war in Iraq. He said first responders like Nydam are needed to protect the community.

"The part of the U.S. code that provides for this anticipates major wars, major national emergencies," Harkin said. "That is not what we're confronting right now. You think about using this law only in (extreme cases), only when we're really in dire, dire need."

Harkin also shot back at Cheney, who said in a visit to Iowa on Tuesday that presidential candidate John Kerry lacks a basic understanding of the war on terrorism and cannot make America safer.

He noted that Cheney had several student deferments that allowed him to skip serving in Vietnam.

"When I hear this coming from Dick Cheney, who was a coward, who would not serve during the Vietnam War, it makes my blood boil," Harkin said. "Those of us who served and those of us who went in the military don't like it when someone like a Dick Cheney comes out and he wants to be tough. Yeah, he'll be tough. He'll be tough with somebody else's blood, somebody else's kids. But not when it was his turn to go."

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2...f00074d537.txt

While I don't agree with calling Cheney a coward, I do think someone who worked to avoid military service should be less of a hawk now.

Good to see that the Dems also use the 'pre-emptive strike' tactic, although they bastardize bush for doing the same in Iraq.

Two points:

1. Lots of people had student exemptions to being involved in the Vietnam War. Why is Cheney now a "coward" for having one?

2. The IRR call-ups are not a "backdoor draft". When people sign up to go into the service, they sign a contract for an initial term and then can leave, but with an additional period where they can be called back in time of need. Regardless of whether you agree that these call-backs are a good or bad thing and what they mean in a broader context, saying these people were misled or are involved in a "backdoor draft" is just plainly untrue.

Originally Posted by elprincipe Two points: 1. Lots of people had student exemptions to being involved in the Vietnam War. Why is Cheney now a "coward" for having one? 2. The IRR call-ups are not a "backdoor draft". When people sign up to go into the service, they sign a contract for an initial term and then can leave, but with an additional period where they can be called back in time of need. Regardless of whether you agree that these call-backs are a good or bad thing and what they mean in a broader context, saying these people were misled or are involved in a "backdoor draft" is just plainly untrue.

1.I heard AFTER the student exemptions were null in void or Cheney was flunking out of Yale there was some deal about getting his gf or wife pregnant at the time to avoid service which I find reprehensible. If this is right it's one thing to be a student at the time to avoid service and all that and we remember what Clinton did but to get a woman pregnant of all things to do it.
Haha now look at me playing moralist. chuckles. But seriously if he didn't want to serve why not just go up to Canada like Clinton?
B there's a difference between a military pre-emptive strike and a political one i.e. one doesn't involve American lives being lost in the process.

anyone else hear him rag on Kerry for using the word "sensitive" when Bush also used the same word in reference to Iraq in an earlier speech?

He talks tough, and needs an ass kicking

Originally Posted by CaseyRyback anyone else hear him rag on Kerry for using the word "sensitive" when Bush also used the same word in reference to Iraq in an earlier speech? He talks tough, and needs an ass kicking

Cheney may talk shit and cuss but Bush just gets under my skin more. I resent his cocky demeanor and think he needs to be taken down a notch. You say Cheney needs an ass kicking, well I think Bush needs it more and my dad is just the guy to do it. No I wouldn't do it because I'm too young and it wouldn't be a fair fight but my dad's about the same age as Bush. Nitpick me all you want PAD or ElPrinciple but Bush talks WAY too much shit and he needs to be shown he couldn't fight worth a damn because, yes I believe this, Bush is ALL talk in terms of the physical.

Yes, John Kerry doesn't have a cocky demeanor at all........

And as far as talking shit is concerned, how long have you been observing the political arena? 1 or 2 years? How do you know when shit is coming out of a politicians mouth? When it's open.

Originally Posted by bmulligan Good to see that the Dems also use the 'pre-emptive strike' tactic, although they bastardize bush for doing the same in Iraq.

I think a verbal pre-emptive strike is in a SLIGHTLY different class then something that caused the deaths of thousands. I sincerely hope you were joking when you said that.

Yes, it's called facetiousness. Definately hard to distinguish in a written forum, sorry. It kinda loses it's intention when it's explained.

No offfense b but you can't tell me sometimes when Bush looked smug that you thought he DIDN'T look like he needed his ass beat.
Kerry on the other hand, looks half dead most of the time, lending credence to what I've said all along. I created him to become a member of the living zombie troupe "The Rolling Stones". ;-P

Originally Posted by Sarang01 Cheney may talk shit and cuss but Bush just gets under my skin more. I resent his cocky demeanor and think he needs to be taken down a notch. You say Cheney needs an ass kicking, well I think Bush needs it more and my dad is just the guy to do it. No I wouldn't do it because I'm too young and it wouldn't be a fair fight but my dad's about the same age as Bush. Nitpick me all you want PAD or ElPrinciple but Bush talks WAY too much shit and he needs to be shown he couldn't fight worth a damn because, yes I believe this, Bush is ALL talk in terms of the physical.

No need to nitpick, and Bush does talk shit all the time. He's a politician, and further a member of one of the two big parties. What do you expect?

Originally Posted by Sarang01 1.I heard AFTER the student exemptions were null in void or Cheney was flunking out of Yale there was some deal about getting his gf or wife pregnant at the time to avoid service which I find reprehensible. If this is right it's one thing to be a student at the time to avoid service and all that and we remember what Clinton did but to get a woman pregnant of all things to do it. Haha now look at me playing moralist. chuckles. But seriously if he didn't want to serve why not just go up to Canada like Clinton? B there's a difference between a military pre-emptive strike and a political one i.e. one doesn't involve American lives being lost in the process.

"You heard"? Is there any reputable publication that you can link to with this information?

This is from Slate. I'm not saying that it isn't speculation, but it does provide a timeline so draw your own conclusions.

What Chatterbox never realized until recently, however, is that Cheney's eldest daughter, Elizabeth Cheney, likely owes her very existence to her father's avoidance of the Vietnam draft. The Washington Post's Phil McCombs made the intimate calculations in a profile published in April 1991, when Cheney was defense secretary. The timeline: Aug. 29, 1964: Dick and Lynne Cheney marry. May 19, 1965: The Selective Service classifies Dick Cheney 1-A, "available immediately for military service." July 28, 1965: President Lyndon Johnson says draft calls will be doubled. Oct. 26, 1965: The Selective Service declares that married men without children, who were previously exempted from the draft, will now be called up. Married men with children remain exempt. Jan. 19, 1966: The Selective Service reclassifies Dick Cheney 3-A, "deferred from military service because service would cause hardship upon his family," because his wife is pregnant with their first child. July 28, 1966: Elizabeth Cheney is born. Jan. 30, 1967: Dick Cheney turns 26 and therefore becomes ineligible for the draft. Dedicated students of obstetrics will observe that Elizabeth Cheney's birth date falls precisely nine months and two days after the Selective Service publicly revoked its policy of not drafting childless husbands. This would seem to indicate that the Cheneys, though doubtless planning to have children sometime, were seized with an untamable passion the moment Dick Cheney became vulnerable to the Vietnam draft. And acted on it. Carpe diem!

http://www.slate.com/id/2097365

Imagine, Dick Cheney not rushing out to war...it's almost like he's a back stabbing power hungry fascist.

That's interesting, although hardly conclusive...kind of like W.'s Texas Air National Guard stuff.

Originally Posted by evilpenguin9000 Imagine, Dick Cheney not rushing out to war...it's almost like he's a back stabbing power hungry fascist.

That comparison was an insult to Hitler!

It is funny because Hitler is a bad man and I said you insulted him by associating his political party to Dick Cheny, who is view by many as an abmormally evil person.

PC power!

Originally Posted by Sarang01 Cheney may talk shit and cuss but Bush just gets under my skin more. I resent his cocky demeanor and think he needs to be taken down a notch. You say Cheney needs an ass kicking, well I think Bush needs it more and my dad is just the guy to do it. No I wouldn't do it because I'm too young and it wouldn't be a fair fight but my dad's about the same age as Bush. Nitpick me all you want PAD or ElPrinciple but Bush talks WAY too much shit and he needs to be shown he couldn't fight worth a damn because, yes I believe this, Bush is ALL talk in terms of the physical.

its almost ironic how you say Bush talks all big and bad you would like to beat him up, but instead of you (the one talking all big and bad) doing something, you would get your dad to beat up the president.

Amazing, a 25 year-old married man got his wife pregnant. Shock! Gasp! How can it be?

In the meantime, it turns out that a certain politician who likes to call others coward has lied extensively about his military record by claiming combat duties when he in fact was never so assigned and had a career rather similar to the President's.
http://instapundit.com/archives/017246.php

Isn't it funny how all these Democrats can't keep their war stories straight?

Back and forth.