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http://www.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=6278
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/36032.html

It will have flash memory instead.

At some point, when users want to save their e-mail messages, copy music, or anything like that, the only storage they will have is what we give them.

Elitist M$ quote?

That sucks. I had heard rumors of this for a while now.

I'll miss being able to use my own music. And I'll hate having to buy memory cards.

Edit: Note that the guy in the article doesn't work for MS, only the company that will be making the flash memory. At least, if he hasn't pissed MS off by revealing all this.

Yeh this definitely is a step backwards for MS. I don't think I'll be buying an XB2 whenever it comes out. By then the PSP will supply all my gaming needs

What is flash memory?

"What is flash memory?"

Its just a memory card like what GameCube uses.

The XBox hard drive is mainly used to pirate games so there really is no reason to keep it for XBox 2.

oh, well that stinks

that was one of my favorite features about the xbox, not having to use costly memory card space

The last part of the article suggests that the next Xbox might not get the shaft in memory cards like the Gamecube did. It says this company can produce flash memory units that hold up to 40+ GB. I doubt we'll see units with that much capacity, but maybe one card/unit will be enough for the average gamer.

What has me concerned is what this story implies about the functionality of the next Xbox. If there is not going to be a hard drive then there will be no way for the console to act as a DVR like Tivo, something that I could live without but I don't want six different boxes in my entertainment center. Sony has already tipped their hand in this regard with the release of the PSX and I appauld them for their foresight in giving the consumer the option to have a one-box-that-does-it-all, even if they did rush it out the door and require firmware updates.
It was long thought that MS would use the first Xbox to sneak into the living room and then introduce the Xbox 2 as the must have consumer device that does it all. Without the hard drive I find it hard to believe. Who knows maybe they have great plans. Xbox live is already broadband only and if MS developed the technology and signed all the right papers they could cut deals to have an online music library (or anything else for that matter) that streamed to your Xbox as you were playing, although I don't like that idea.
If nothing else we will all find out something during E3.

Still not impressed by this source. Not going to foam at the mouth just yet.

I think we have a bit of sensationlism from the media (or I guess you could say a bit of hype mongering from M-System's CEO)

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/news/news_6090737.html

When contacted by GameSpot, Xbox group product manager David Hufford said Moran was "talking way over his head." He continued, "Mr. Moran is aimlessly speculating, and we never comment on speculation. We've made no such announcements about future Xbox products and services. And we don't intend to for quite a while. Until we do, we suggest people take guesswork for what it is."

MS stated a month+ ago that they would only put in a HDD if Sony put a HDD in the PS3, they haven't officially changed that stance as far as I can tell from that quote. Of course the head of the company that makes the flash discs would love to have his discs be THE storage medium for the X2 (not just a secondary portable storage solution), that means serious coin for this company.

Personally I'm hoping Sony goes with a HDD in the PS3 and MS decides they have no choice and puts one in the next Xbox as well. Either that or these large flash discs really will be large/good (and cheap) enough to act as a HDD replacement. Kind of doubt they will be packed in the box with the console...

Already posted with official story...

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8646

Originally Posted by wubb I think we have a bit of sensationlism from the media (or I guess you could say a bit of hype mongering from M-System's CEO) http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/news/news_6090737.html MS stated a month+ ago that they would only put in a HDD if Sony put a HDD in the PS3, they haven't officially changed that stance as far as I can tell from that quote. Of course the head of the company that makes the flash discs would love to have his discs be THE storage medium for the X2 (not just a secondary portable storage solution), that means serious coin for this company. Personally I'm hoping Sony goes with a HDD in the PS3 and MS decides they have no choice and puts one in the next Xbox as well. Either that or these large flash discs really will be large/good (and cheap) enough to act as a HDD replacement. Kind of doubt they will be packed in the box with the console...

They will not be large and cheap. You will be paying $40 for 64 megs! Probably $60 for 128 MB. If they do not include the flash memory in the box and there is no hard drive that means I have to buy memory cards! This drives up my cost as a user and makes this product no different than the Gamecube and PS2.

I expect one company will deliver either a hard drive and that company will have the advantage in the next round.

Of course if Microsoft can delive the Xbox 2 with no hard drive for $99 I will buy it!!!! But at $300 without a hard drive? I'll wait for the PS3 so the price war can begin!

I'm betting the majority of Xbox owners DO NOT use the system for pirating or Linux, but for regular gaming use and XBL. Taking out the HD functionality does stop the copying of games to the HD, but also eliminates the positives of not needing memory cards... being able to rip your own music for listening in-game, convenient saving, faster loading and more complex graphics (cache to HD) not to mention downloadable updates and software. To me the Xbox Next/2 seems like a step backwards, and a slap in the face. Of course its not really fair to judge until we get some real specs and games, but until then my opinions not going to change =/

Originally Posted by magilacudy being able to rip your own music for listening in-game, convenient saving, faster loading and more complex graphics (cache to HD) not to mention downloadable updates and software

See, with the flash "discs" as they're calling them, I don't see this being a problem...if the cost of say, a 10GB flash "disc" is less than the cost of a hard drive, with the added benefit of no moving parts, it *may* actually be a better alternative. For the person who quoted current thumbdrive prices being what we'll pay when the time comes, you're sorely mistaken. As technology such as flash memory becomes more and more common and more easily mass produced, the price will plummet. By the time the Xbox next is ready for market, the pricing will adjust.

However, as far as ripping your own in-game music, how many games actually use this? I know out of 30+ Xbox games I own, I think only maybe 5 or 6 actually support this feature. I wouldn't miss it. As for saving and updates, if the internal flash memory was even a GB or two, that'd be more than sufficient for most of that.

People are also upset at the "compatibility" issue of flash memory. Anyone who has a USB/Pen/Key/Flash drive knows that the PC treats it as just another "disc." My friend can bring his over, and when it's connected my computer sees it as the (E:) drive. I don't see why the Xbox Next wouldn't function in a similar manner. With the proper internal usage, the "caching" function of the previous generation Xbox can be maintained. It's the architecture of the CPU and GPU that will be the primary issue in compatibility.

The music ripping makes the Xbox versions of certain multiplatform games more desireable to me. Games like Tony Hawk and a lot of the racing games, for example.

I'd miss that feature, but it wouldn't make me want the next console any less.

the ability to put my own music in alot of my games is huge, it makes Tony Hawk that much better, otherwise I'd get sick of it quicker hearing the same songs over and over

It's true the feature is only in a handful of games, but it's the 2nd largest benefit that makes me get games for the xbox over the other consoles.

WSB. Most of the functionality could be maintained depending on the size, and if Microsoft is tipping thier hand so early, they must be able to at least produce one that is of a size that would even be usable for them.

The only really negative thing that comes out of this is that the XBox2 is now very unlikely to be backwards compatable... it's very likely the methods of writing to disk would be different between the two media. (unless the Xbox OS is more robust than I think it is)

See, with the flash "discs" as they're calling them, I don't see this being a problem...if the cost of say, a 10GB flash "disc" is less than the cost of a hard drive, with the added benefit of no moving parts, it *may* actually be a better alternative. For the person who quoted current thumbdrive prices being what we'll pay when the time comes, you're sorely mistaken. /quote

If the new flash memory is built into the box yes it will be cheaper. If they are selling them to consumers for purchase you are not going to be able to purchase the flash memory for cheap. If Microsoft's goal is to make a profit on the hardware this time around we are going to pay much more for the box or it has to be stripped down.

The mantra of every hardware company that's made it has been "get the hardware to the consumer, even at a loss, then make your money on software licensing." MS just has to get the cost down enough so they aren't taking too big of a bath when they sell the new machine at $300 at launch. (note, $300 is just a wild guess)

Regardless, reading this article again makes me think that MS could just call off any deal with this company, since this guy has been throwing all sorts of details out that should probably remain secret for another year at least.

I feel sorry for anyone who owns an xbox and doesn't use custom soundtracks. Custom soundtracks is one of the big selling points that got me to buy my xbox.