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Am I missing something?

I admit it: I was suckered in by the overwhelming hype. Having never played the original Soul games, I didn't know what I was getting into. After purchasing Soul Calibur 2 for the GameCube (no particular reason), I was compeletly and utterly dissatisfied.

Obviously, the battle system is what I am most disappointed with. I believe the fact that you can counter/parry pretty much any attack in the game is its downfall. The computer/AI does it nearly 99% of the time. It makes the game not only frustrating, but trying to recipricate is nearly impossible. Why? Because there are so many moves in the game that knowing which button to press in order to counter is stupidly difficult. Only with many years of practice will you memorize every animation (and number of frames) for every attack and grab in the game, and only then will you "master" this game. Otherwise, even a button masher may be victorious. I fail to see where you would apply some sort of skill in order to be victorious.

In conclusion: facing off against the AI isn't fun. Losing to a button masher isn't fun. Where's the fun? Weapon Master mode? Hah!

Is that supposed to be a review? Otherwise this should go on another board.

I'm gonna have a little fun here, since I don't consider this a full review. If you're easily offended or irritated, you may want to skip this:

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Am I missing something?

Probably.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy I admit it: I was suckered in by the overwhelming hype. Having never played the original Soul games, I didn't know what I was getting into.

Been under a rock or something?

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy After purchasing Soul Calibur 2 for the GameCube (no particular reason), I was compeletly and utterly dissatisfied.

Sometimes happens when you make an uninformed gaming choice.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Obviously, the battle system is what I am most disappointed with. I believe the fact that you can counter/parry pretty much any attack in the game is its downfall. The computer/AI does it nearly 99% of the time. It makes the game not only frustrating, but trying to recipricate is nearly impossible.

Practice, padawan.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Why? Because there are so many moves in the game that knowing which button to press in order to counter is stupidly difficult. Only with many years of practice will you memorize every animation (and number of frames) for every attack and grab in the game, and only then will you "master" this game.

So now the PlayStation generation expects to master a fighting game in a weekend?

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Otherwise, even a button masher may be victorious. I fail to see where you would apply some sort of skill in order to be victorious.

Obviously you've never played with other people.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy In conclusion: facing off against the AI isn't fun.

Get some friends.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Losing to a button masher isn't fun.

Get some friends who know how to play.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Where's the fun?

Lost on you, apparently.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Weapon Master mode? Hah!

Can't beat 4-3, can you?

I'll tell you what yellowaznboy, if you're willing to put that game in a box and mail to my house (you'll pay for shipping since I'm doing you the favor of getting rid of the game), I'll be more that happy to take it off of your hands. Post if interested.

Originally Posted by Scrubking Is that supposed to be a review? Otherwise this should go on another board.

Are you suggesting that because I don't follow the tired formula of a point-scale system that my opinion doesn't belong here?

www.dictionary.com's definition of a review:

re·view ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-vy) v. re·viewed, re·view·ing, re·views v. tr. To look over, study, or examine again. To consider retrospectively; look back on. To examine with an eye to criticism or correction: reviewed the research findings. To write or give a critical report on (a new work or performance, for example). Law. To reexamine (an action or determination) judicially, especially in a higher court, in order to correct possible errors. To subject to a formal inspection, especially a military inspection.

Last time I checked, that's exactly what I did. Perhaps it is because I didn't include my opinion on the graphics or the music?

Thank you for your response, WhipSmartBanky.

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky Sometimes happens when you make an uninformed gaming choice.

I agree. I made a stupid, careless mistake. But that's irrelevant.

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky Practice, padawan. So now the PlayStation generation expects to master a fighting game in a weekend?

Read below.

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky Can't beat 4-3, can you?

Actually, I have played the game to death, despite the fact that I find the game flawed. I've invested months in the game in an effort to "master" the game.

Anyway, Weapon Master mode = easy, in my opinion. I ended with a level 83 <insert stupid name here>, and would have "leveled" all the way to 99 except it becomes monotonous, especially after collecting every single weapon in the mode.

And of course I play against human players! I know many people who have this game and play with me regularly. We even hold small tournaments, and, I can honestly say, that's where the fun is, if not for the social interaction and the competitive atmosphere. But playing against the AI has made me realize that it is nearly impossible to master the game without many, many years of training.

Btw, have you even played the game? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass in an attempt to look somewhat clever, as you provide no insight on the game itself. If you have, what's your opinion of the battle system?

And please, don't classify me under the generalized group of "Playstation generation," as I probably have more gaming experience than you.

because people are stupid and like what sucks

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Thank you for your response, WhipSmartBanky.

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy I agree. I made a stupid, careless mistake. But that's irrelevant.

Hey, you brought it up.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Read below.

Ditto.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Actually, I have played the game to death, despite the fact that I find the game flawed. I've invested months in the game in an effort to "master" the game. Anyway, Weapon Master mode = easy, in my opinion. I ended with a level 83 <insert stupid name here>, and would have "leveled" all the way to 99 except it becomes monotonous, especially after collecting every single weapon in the mode.

That's fair.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy And of course I play against human players! I know many people who have this game and play with me regularly. We even hold small tournaments, and, I can honestly say, that's where the fun is, if not for the social interaction and the competitive atmosphere.

Then why'd you ask in your previous post, "Where's the fun?" You're contradicting yourself.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy But playing against the AI has made me realize that it is nearly impossible to master the game without many, many years of training.

You say this as if it's a bad thing. I remember back in the day everyone spent years mastering SFII and its various iterations, counting animation frames and learning attack priority and collision zones. People are STILL playing it today, holding tournaments and whanot, and there's even an anniversary edition that just came out recently in Japan for PS2, IIRC.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy Btw, have you even played the game? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass in an attempt to look somewhat clever, as you provide no insight on the game itself. If you have, what's your opinion of the battle system?

http://cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewt...ighlight=#8045

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy And please, don't classify me under the generalized group of "Playstation generation,"

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy as I probably have more gaming experience than you.

Unless you're over 30 years old and been playing games all your life, I sincerely doubt that.

LOL Chalk 10 up for Whip!!! Thats the funniest thing ive read all day Thx man lol

yea Soul Calibur 2 was a really fun fighting game to me. I have only put in like 20 hours but thats only because none of my friends want to play SC2

basically it took me 15 to master link completely and to become really good with him , although my friend always kills me with cervantes

It's a pretty good fighter, although I'm not much of a fighting game fan. One of my friends is nationally ranked though, in SCII tourneys

Again, thank you for your responses, WhipSmartBanky.

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky Then why'd you ask in your previous post, "Where's the fun?" You're contradicting yourself.

Notice what I said at the end of that passage. I sincerely don't find the game fun at all (more frustration than fun), but sometimes you just have to stick with it to see what happens. Anyway, I find tournaments, in general, to be fun, and probably even a game like Barbie Race and Ride would be "fun" if a tournament was ever held...

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky You say this as if it's a bad thing. I remember back in the day everyone spent years mastering SFII and its various iterations, counting animation frames and learning attack priority and collision zones. People are STILL playing it today, holding tournaments and whanot, and there's even an anniversary edition that just came out recently in Japan for PS2, IIRC.

You can't really compare 2D fighting games with 3D fighting games. But even so, Soul Calibur 2 has so much more depth than Street Fighter II (and it's 2D iterations). "Mastering" Street Fighter is not as difficult as "mastering" a 3D fighting game such as Soul Calibur 2. With Soul Calibur, there are infinitely more "moves" and thus strategies, especially with the "8-way" maneuvers. With SFII, it's either block or jump. But the point is, realizing this, it would take a lifetime for players to play in extremely high levels of skill.

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky http://cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8045&highlight=#8045

That review doesn't include anything about the battle system at all, which is, um, pretty much what this game is about. Sure, you talk about the graphics and the sound, but how does that make the game fun?

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky Unless you're over 30 years old and been playing games all your life, I sincerely doubt that.

You don't have to be in your 30's to have extensive gaming experience. I buy/play older consoles/games. I would list the number of game-related products I have, but then I would put myself in the same boat as minx (another jab at minx's huge library of games ).

As a very casual player of the fighting genre, I found SC2 to be a disappointment myself too. I loved the original on the DC and just found this to be pretty much the same game. Felt more like SC 1.5 to me. That doesn't make it a bad game at all. The fighting system is pretty tight, the characters are solid, and of course the graphics are top notch. It just didn't take the next step I was hoping it would take for me personally like the original did.

I am not a hardcore fan of fighting games though so any subtle differences would be lost on me.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy You can't really compare 2D fighting games with 3D fighting games. But even so, Soul Calibur 2 has so much more depth than Street Fighter II (and it's 2D iterations). "Mastering" Street Fighter is not as difficult as "mastering" a 3D fighting game such as Soul Calibur 2. With Soul Calibur, there are infinitely more "moves" and thus strategies, especially with the "8-way" maneuvers. With SFII, it's either block or jump. But the point is, realizing this, it would take a lifetime for players to play in extremely high levels of skill.

I agree for the most part...the SF2 reference was to illustrate my point. However, I still don't see why having a deep 3D fighting system that takes a "lifetime" to master is in any way a bad thing. However, I do contend that to "play in extremely high levels of skill," either in SFII or SC2, does take practice, but not a lifetime.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy That review doesn't include anything about the battle system at all, which is, um, pretty much what this game is about. Sure, you talk about the graphics and the sound, but how does that make the game fun?

While I didn't get into the same level of detail you did, I clearly mentioned what you call the "battle system" almost right off the bat:

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky The control is precise and exact - if you can't do a particular move there's no one to blame but yourself, not the controller or the input system.

The control of the game puts the "fun" in "fundamental." Also, I mentioned the following:

Originally Posted by WhipSmartBanky Cool variety of weapons for each character to use in the extra modes, and lots of things to unlock and try out, and tons of modes to keep you busy long after you've unlocked everything. I rarely buy new, full-price games, and when I do, I can count on one hand the number I've pulled this much play time on, and I plan to log a lot more hours in the future on it...

I don't think you really need me to elaborate. I wouldn't have played the game nor would I continue to play it if I wasn't having fun. Clearly you're frustrated, and I have no complaint with that, but...if, as you say, you've played the game for several months...well, nobody plays a game for months if they're not having some level of fun.

Now, IMHO, as far as the AI goes, even on the hardest levels, once you've attained a certain level of competency in your gameplay, it's a cakewalk. I find the most challenge in playing against human players. Even the SC2 AI at its best is still predictable, but a human player is not as nearly so.

And to be honest with you, if you're getting your butt whooped by button-mashers, then you haven't learned to play at a competent level yet. Any skilled SC2 player will dominate a button-masher regardless of character. If you find yourself on the losing end of those types of battles, you need practice. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy You don't have to be in your 30's to have extensive gaming experience.

I'm not saying you do. However, I have been playing video games in one form or another for all of my life, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have too. What you have to understand though, is that unless we're very similar in age, I'm going to have more gaming experience than you. I'm not bragging or boasting about it, it's just a fact.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy I buy/play older consoles/games.

As you should. I'm glad you appreciate your gaming roots.

Originally Posted by yellowaznboy I would list the number of game-related products I have, but then I would put myself in the same boat as minx (another jab at minx's huge library of games ).

The size of your collection and your gaming experience have nothing to do with one another. It only shows your dedication. If you contended that you're a more dedicated gamer than I am based on your gaming collection, I might be more apt to concede that point.

I'm going to discontinue the annoying quoting.

About the AI: while the computer is "predictable," the way in which it counters pretty much anything you throw at it is where the frsutration lies. And I never said the computer was impossible to defeat; I said facing them was not fun.

As for losing to button-mashers, I exaggerated that part a bit. I tend to allow newbies and casual gamers the option of infinite health to make it a challenge. For the most part, it's relatively easy to knock my opponent out of the arena before my life bar is diminished. However, the occasions in which a person just mashes the buttons, and my inability to discern which move it is, results in a KO or ring-out is where the frustration lies.

Off-topic: Time vs. experience is a funny thing. What you choose to do with your time and what you experience depend on your actions. You may have, for example, played a particular game before me, but if I play the same game when I am capable, isn't my experience, in terms of that game, comparable? What I'm trying to say is, age may or may not have anything to do with the experiences you have as a result of your actions (or lack thereof).

Confused? I am...

Right...and I agreed with you. Age has absolutely nothing to do with your gaming experience. Time playing, however, does. If I've been playing games for 25 years and you've only been alive for 18 years (for example) it's not all that unreasonable to expect that I'd be more experienced, especially if it was my lifetime hobby even if it was yours as well. However, since you haven't offered to reveal your age to refute that, I can only guess.

However, to add the confusion and pick nits...there might be some games I've mastered that you've never played, and vice versa. Either way, it doesn't matter. Don't profess to be more experienced than me because you have more games, and I won't profess to have more experience than you because I've been gaming longer. Ya dig?

Anyhow, as far as your frustration in your SC2 situation, I know you say you play with friends, but you'd probably benefit if you found the one person who constantly whoops your ass, and sat down with them, no handicaps, and just played. Repeatedly. You'll learn more intuitively fending for yourself than you will trying to read move-lists.

Other than that, I really don't know what to suggest to help you. You'll only reach a low skill threshold playing the AI all the time. If you continue playing with your friends, I guarantee you it'll get easier.

haha 3d fighter have more depth than 2d. You should be on Carson.

Well...it has something to do with that pesky 3rd dimension.

Let's see:

2D = length and width.
3D = length, width, and...*gasp* DEPTH!

Heh. So yeah, I think a 3D fighter would have more "depth" than a 2D one.

Thank you for your time, WhipSmartBanky.

man for the first time i fully read a dicussion, LOL you the man Whip and of course you have your point too aznboy anyway personally i'd enjot this game if it was as difficult and take that long to master. i love a fighting game that last. if it was easy then there would not be much to do in the game eh? DBZ for example, if you're not a fan, finish it in couple of hours and it goes to the collecting dust corner, unless you play with someone else