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Originally Posted by drone8888 Any job that makes you separates your soul from your body, should be highly scrutinized. Lawyers are needed why? It's not the will of the people, who make the laws, it's the filthy scam artists in the government who create them. Instead of using common sense to figure shit out, and sometimes make a mistake, we have retarded rules that no one understands except for the highest paid lawyers, which allows the guilty to walk. There are no just lawyers, unless you are the common American that worships the television. If you're a lawyer, you're an inhuman piece of trash. You turn your morals on when you leave the job, and that's despicable.

I take it your parents are doctors?

Originally Posted by irishsoccermbw All of the "don't go" comments are ridiculous. If someone goes to law school because they aren't sure what they want to do or are just looking to make lots of money, than yes it is a bad idea and terribly unrealistic. I've wanted to be a prosecutor my entire life, so law school is a necessary step for me. For the "don't go" people, what do you guys do? Accountants? Teachers? I am sure you could poll CAG and find tons of people who have negative views on those career paths as well. If you read the OP, the guy simply asked if there were any lawyers or law students here, not your personal opinions on the profession.

I am an accountant and I find your post HIGHLY offensive.

One can definitely go to law school if they actually be smart about it. The thing is too many people these days go to law school fully on loans, don't specialize in a field with demand, and end up working shit jobs, many of which don't even have to do with law, and have thousands and thousands of loans for the rest of their lives. You just need to be smart about it. I know from personal experience about this as my ex did the same exact stupid things I mentioned. He didn't really specialize in anything, took out nearly $200k in loans, and was only in the 50% percentile of his law class at a top 50ish school. He hasn't been able to find a decent job to save his life and he graduated 4.5 years ago. Just don't be him and you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by drone8888 Any job that makes you separates your soul from your body, should be highly scrutinized. Lawyers are needed why? It's not the will of the people, who make the laws, it's the filthy scam artists in the government who create them. Instead of using common sense to figure shit out, and sometimes make a mistake, we have retarded rules that no one understands except for the highest paid lawyers, which allows the guilty to walk. There are no just lawyers, unless you are the common American that worships the television. If you're a lawyer, you're an inhuman piece of trash. You turn your morals on when you leave the job, and that's despicable.

Geez, I don't like lawyers as much as the next guy, but you're taking it to a whole different level.

Originally Posted by docvinh Geez, I don't like lawyers as much as the next guy, but you're taking it to a whole different level.

I know right, you'd think he's talking about going into business school or something.

but the vast majority of people who go to law school have useless degrees, communication or political science or psychology or whatever... sure, unless they're getting into a good school (I wouldn't say T14 or bust, maybe top 50) they'll have trouble finding a job but I bet it's less trouble than they'd have with their worthless poly sci degree...

People who end up realizing law school is a mistake seem to have made undergrad mistakes. Generally speaking, law school improves your career prospects, it's just that for some people the improvement isn't drastic enough for them to be satisfied.

Originally Posted by Koggit but the vast majority of people who go to law school have useless degrees, communication or political science or psychology or whatever... sure, unless they're getting into a good school (I wouldn't say T14 or bust, maybe top 50) they'll have trouble finding a job but I bet it's less trouble than they'd have with their worthless poly sci degree... People who end up realizing law school is a mistake seem to have made undergrad mistakes. Generally speaking, law school improves your career prospects, it's just that for some people the improvement isn't drastic enough for them to be satisfied.

You sound like a business major. Education is never a mistake.

Originally Posted by Koggit but the vast majority of people who go to law school have useless degrees, communication or political science or psychology or whatever... sure, unless they're getting into a good school (I wouldn't say T14 or bust, maybe top 50) they'll have trouble finding a job but I bet it's less trouble than they'd have with their worthless poly sci degree... People who end up realizing law school is a mistake seem to have made undergrad mistakes. Generally speaking, law school improves your career prospects, it's just that for some people the improvement isn't drastic enough for them to be satisfied.

Yeah my ex was a poli sci major. He basically made all the wrong moves. You're not ed if you have a useless undergrad major if you go to a top 10 school and are in the top 20% or so of your class. But if don't do those things with a shitty undergrad degree, then yes you are ed.

My ex went to a Top 50 school also but like I said he was only in like the 50th percentile of his class and he did NOT get an internship with a law firm.

Originally Posted by irishsoccermbw For the "don't go" people, what do you guys do? Accountants? Teachers? I am sure you could poll CAG and find tons of people who have negative views on those career paths as well.

I'm a law student. Law school is a terrible experience; you will learn absolutely nothing of practical value, and your job prospects will be determined largely by what school you go to and who you know rather than what you study or how well you do, particularly in this economy.

So, I'll qualify: Don't go unless you're going to a T14.

Originally Posted by c0rnpwn You sound like a business major. Education is never a mistake.

Whatever it is you get from useless liberal arts degrees is not what I would call an education... if you want to study Cinema History or whatever for you, that's great, but those people better not walk around thinking they're educated and therefore deserve better jobs. Law degrees are only one step removed from this.



The majority of people who bitch about law school not being worth it are actually in a bad situation because of their undergrad, not because of law school. They spend 4 years in undergrad wasting their time with a slacker major, so when they graduate they aren't appealing to employers, they can only get maybe $25k/yr in positions with with low ceilings... they're unhappy with those options so they go to law school, where after 3 years they usually start $40k+, but then they bitch about this not being fair pay for their 7 years of education. In fact, the $40k is actually a damn fair increase from the $25k their Music Theory degree would've gotten them.

Similarly, if they had worked their ass off and graduated top of their class where they would've then had options for $40k+ out of undergrad, then those same credentials would've gotten them into a top law school where they would've gotten $70k+ out of law school, or if they had a more challenging program (engineering or graduate level science) then out of undergrad they may get $70k+ offers, but they also get an admissions boost to in applying to law school, and out of law school $100k+ offers because there's more demand for lawyers with technical backgrounds. It's all proportional to how in-demand you are out of undergrad: the better shape you're in out of undergrad, the better shape you'll be in after law school. If your situation out of undergrad sucks, law school isn't going to magically fix anything.

I can almost guarantee, anyone with poor career prospects out of law school had poor career prospects out of undergrad. It's just that people tend to blame the most recent related event for any problem, or in this case the most recent school.

Soooo, basically only engineering degrees are the only worthwhile degrees for law school apparently. Everything else is a waste of time. Good to know.

I can see where a degree in some kind of art or english (kind of) is irrelevant to a law degree, but unless you're talking about some specific kinds of law, math and science degrees seem even less relevant. Something like political science, history, or criminal justice seems to make more sense as an undergrad degree if you're going for law afterwards.

Obviously if you got terrible grades it doesn't really matter, but I don't see where a degree in fields like engineering or biology would be more relevant to law in general. Maybe I'm missing something.

Doc, could you point out where I said only engineers should go to law school? Pretty sure I didn't say that.

To condense my previous post: prospective law students should expect their J.D. career prospects to be better than but proportional to their bachelor's degree career prospects. It's really that simple.

Originally Posted by SpazX I can see where a degree in some kind of art or english (kind of) is irrelevant to a law degree, but unless you're talking about some specific kinds of law, math and science degrees seem even less relevant. Something like political science, history, or criminal justice seems to make more sense as an undergrad degree if you're going for law afterwards. Obviously if you got terrible grades it doesn't really matter, but I don't see where a degree in fields like engineering or biology would be more relevant to law in general. Maybe I'm missing something.

Leaving aside the benefits of studying formal logic, which is covered extensively (and almost exclusively) in technical fields, the idea isn't so much that the technical background makes you a better lawyer, but rather the technical background is favored by law school admissions committees (helping you get into a better school) and desired by employers (since patent law is relatively lucrative and there are disproportionately fewer lawyers with technical backgrounds).

Relax man, I'm just ing with you. I guess it really depends what branch of law you're going into which makes it worthwhile and lucrative. Don't they cover formal logic in Philosophy too? That's pretty much a useless degree unless you continue on to grad school or law school.

Originally Posted by Koggit Doc, could you point out where I said only engineers should go to law school? Pretty sure I didn't say that. To condense my previous post: prospective law students should expect their J.D. career prospects to be better than but proportional to their bachelor's degree career prospects. It's really that simple. Leaving aside the benefits of studying formal logic, which is covered extensively (and almost exclusively) in technical fields, the idea isn't so much that the technical background makes you a better lawyer, but rather the technical background is favored by law school admissions committees (helping you get into a better school) and desired by employers (since patent law is relatively lucrative and there are disproportionately fewer lawyers with technical backgrounds).

There is no statement that makes my blood boil more than "you can do anything with a law degree." Other than practicing law, there isn't anything that you can do with a law degree that is suddenly open to you after going through law school.

Also, your law degree and experience isn't going to fling open doors in the business sector either. In fact, most people will look at you strangely and wonder why you're going another route instead of raking in the money as a lawyer.

If you can go to law school for free or with minimal loans, then it might not be a bad idea. It really depends on what you'd be doing if you weren't in law school. Also, the $160K jobs aren't there like they were a few years ago. Even patent lawyers were laid off recently, and the supply of lawyers for those jobs far outweighs the demand, even when legal work is at a high.

You don't need $160k+ to be rich.. average starting salary private sector from UW Seattle is $92k and they're just rank 30 or so (they're my current undergrad, and probably going to be my most realistic target for law)... that's already about 50% more than the average UW CSE grad, and I'd argue that the CSE department is harder to get into (slightly higher acceptance rate.. but.. well, I'll spare the details unless anyone requests them).. $92k is about the upper limit for many engineering employers and yet half of new grads from a rank ~30 school are raking in more than that.. I have a lot of trouble viewing that as under compensated

Originally Posted by Koggit Doc, could you point out where I said only engineers should go to law school? Pretty sure I didn't say that. To condense my previous post: prospective law students should expect their J.D. career prospects to be better than but proportional to their bachelor's degree career prospects. It's really that simple. Leaving aside the benefits of studying formal logic, which is covered extensively (and almost exclusively) in technical fields, the idea isn't so much that the technical background makes you a better lawyer, but rather the technical background is favored by law school admissions committees (helping you get into a better school) and desired by employers (since patent law is relatively lucrative and there are disproportionately fewer lawyers with technical backgrounds).

Slacker majors? Liberal arts does not equal education? Goodness gracious, you don't realize why those people are getting those degrees. It's not for the money (and if it is, I agree with you they should've chosen something else).

And you'd probably poo poo my Latin major, despite the fact I've probably learned as much logic from it (the language itself as well as the classical philosophers) as you have from engineering. I'd say you're being a little short-sighted, but you'd probably respond indignantly.

Originally Posted by lawhorns04 There is no statement that makes my blood boil more than "you can do anything with a law degree." Other than practicing law, there isn't anything that you can do with a law degree that is suddenly open to you after going through law school.

A JD can be as useful as you want it to be. It all depends on what you want to get out of it. One of my good law school buddies runs a managing firm for Broadway actors (for him the JD is just a means to an end...it looks good on the wall). If you plan to run for public office there is nothing better to have in your arsenal than a JD. With a JD you can work as a consultant/ public service/ sit on corporate boards and a variety of other things.

In the end it's your imagination that is stopping you from getting the most out of your JD.

I'm not bothered by people choosing useless degrees, nothing wrong with em, I'm just bothered by the ones that come out 4 years later bitching about the job market (or 7 years later, re: law school), and unfortunately that's the majority

I dropped out of Washington University in St. Louis after a semester about 6 years ago. I wasn't too enthused about the prospects of being $120K+ in debt after finishing school. That said, I'm going to retake the LSAT this June and dip my toe back into the law school pond.

My advice is to apply as broadly as possible and do everything you can to minimize the amount of debt you take on to finance law school. The top 14 schools are probably the only ones worth going deeply into debt for, and that's soley due to their reputations.

People are saying "no job prospects" what professions have 'good' job prospects in the economy we live in today? Besides the always in demand medical field, what areas have high demand?

When I clicked on this thread I thought there would be an intelligent discussion about the legal profession and the education process, that sure has not happened as of yet.

Also, Latin major? What opportunities does a Latin major have outside of teaching? I'm just curious.