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Originally Posted by camoor Don't know about that, a college education on a resume still carries weight. Alot of the value from college comes from contacts. Do you have any colleagues who landed jobs - perhaps they could put in a good word for you. Half the game is working your contacts, seriously.

Right. Around here, a BS in CS is pretty much the baseline for tier 1 help desk. Without someone to put in a good word for you, prospects are not good.

edit: I'll probably have my CCENT in the summer and do ICND2 for the CCNA by New Years, so I guess we'll see how that goes.

edit2: About Romney, I seriously wonder if he thinks he's privileged. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he thinks he isn't because someone like Buffet or Gates has tons more you money. Just looking at how he talks to people in lower economic classes, it's so obvious that he really has no idea how to relate to them. It's ing bonkers.

Originally Posted by camoor Don't know about that, a college education on a resume still carries weight. Alot of the value from college comes from contacts. Do you have any colleagues who landed jobs - perhaps they could put in a good word for you. Half the game is working your contacts, seriously.

Short answer, no. Long answer, no. They're all in the same boat as me basically.

Originally Posted by Clak It kills me that Kerry was labeled as some blue blooded elitist, and Romney apparently isn't, bullshit. They're both wealthy white guys who haven't had to really work much in their lives.

The funny thing is that Kerry could beat Romney if he was a Republican. War veteran that married well could've gone all the way with a good country song to back it up.

Originally Posted by Clak Short answer, no. Long answer, no. They're all in the same boat as me basically.

That sucks man.

You just need that big break, good luck to you.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 Good Krugman column today relating to the above discussion. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/op...s.html?_r=1&hp

Republicans can't look behind or in front of themselves... in other news the sky is blue. I can't totally hate on Krugman since he's disdainful of the right.

Originally Posted by camoor That sucks man. You just need that big break, good luck to you.

Yeah, and that's getting harder all the time it seems. I'd like to take some of those cert classes, but some are $4,000 for just a 1 week course, it's insane. That doesn't even include the cost of taking the cert test.

Originally Posted by Clak Yeah, and that's getting harder all the time it seems. I'd like to take some of those cert classes, but some are $4,000 for just a 1 week course, it's insane. That doesn't even include the cost of taking the cert test.

There are some cert tests that you can take after buying a book, downloading the demo software, and studying/playing with it. Pick a hot tech and you can start out as an admin and work your way into dev.

Nothing new, but an interesting read on a study about the lack of empathy among conservatives that finds the more into politics the less empathetic a conservative is--while the opposite is true of liberals.

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.c...ts-of-empathy/

Originally Posted by camoor There are some cert tests that you can take after buying a book, downloading the demo software, and studying/playing with it. Pick a hot tech and you can start out as an admin and work your way into dev.

That works for the simpler stuff, I'd never imagine taking a class to take say the A+ exam. For more complicated stuff though, it might be worth it to take a class, since the cert test themselves aren't cheap to begin with. Some let you take them again if you fail, but not always. If i were to go for my CCNA for example, I'd probably want to do the class, having never worked with cisco equipment.

Originally Posted by Clak That works for the simpler stuff, I'd never imagine taking a class to take say the A+ exam. For more complicated stuff though, it might be worth it to take a class, since the cert test themselves aren't cheap to begin with. Some let you take them again if you fail, but not always. If i were to go for my CCNA for example, I'd probably want to do the class, having never worked with cisco equipment.

Yeah, definitely take a class if you've never touched any Cisco hardware. Nothing beats being hand-held to learn their IOS or even basic network theory. Looking back, I could've learned binary and subnetting on my own, but it would've been SO much harder and I'd be bald from ripping all my hair out.

If you're serious about getting some certs, you really can't beat going to a community college with a Cisco Academy. Classes are cheap(mine was around $350), mini-sessions can get you through a class in 2-3 months, and you get a 58% off voucher on cert tests(which brings the cost down to about $150) with I think a free re-do if you fail. Plus, there is no need to buy a book because the entire curriculum is online though Cisco and you have access to all the updated versions for life.

Those cram/crash courses are good if you're already working on the stuff everyday, but for a noob like me, there's just simply no way I could've done it.

Well I honestly will probably stay Microsoft side, simply because I do have some experience with Server 2K8 AD, etc. Would be harder for me to start from scratch with Cisco stuff. i was just using the CCNA as an example. I haven't checked in a while, and these certs change too damn often, but I think there is an MCP cert that deals with systems/server administration I may do.

Originally Posted by Clak Well I honestly will probably stay Microsoft side, simply because I do have some experience with Server 2K8 AD, etc. Would be harder for me to start from scratch with Cisco stuff. i was just using the CCNA as an example. I haven't checked in a while, and these certs change too damn often, but I think there is an MCP cert that deals with systems/server administration I may do.

Ah...my b...I thought you wanted to go into network admin from your example. But yeah, MS certs have a much more complicated cert tree, so I decided to stay far away from them. Especially since they change them up every few years.

Yeah the constant changing pisses me off. Used to be fairly simple with the MSCA and MCSE, now deciphering what is what is like a test in and of itself. I'm looking more at systems/server administration I think. It will just be easier for em to get into at this point, having had classes in college relating to it. Might look into Linux+ and along those lines too since Apache and Linux are used so much for web servers. I believe MS has a cert based around IIS, but I don't see a lot of job openings that mention IIS.

RE: Chart
So a disinterested liberal is more of a dick than a disinterested conservative? That's kind of weird, you'd think baseline would be mutually zero.

Kind of a fun chart.

Pops that myth about young republicans not having a heart and old dems not having a brain (however given the giant ideology shifts of both parties, the saying has been defunct for years)

It doesn't get at age though, just how interested one is in politics and there level of empathy. Sure, interest in politics increases with age generally, but I wouldn't read much into that from the chart.

As for nasum's observation, that the lines cross is interesting.

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess the conservatives who aren't interested in politics reporting higher empathy than disinterested liberals is probably related to family values/religious reasons as I don't think the empathy measure gets at whether you're empathetic towards people different than you, or just towards friends/families/neighbors who share the same world view and so on. Being disinterested in politics they may buy in more to the golden rule parts of religion, helping one's neighbors etc.

As interest in conservative politics increases, they probably shift away from that as they buy into the "welfare state" rhetoric of the right, become more concerned with their bottom line than helping others and so on.

Where as maybe liberals start lower as they're less engrained in family values/religion and increase as they get more interested in politics with the liberal focus on social welfare and helping those less fortunate than yourself etc. as their social awareness is raised due to heightened attention to liberal politics.

But again, just pure speculation/thoughts on my part.

Romney might be the least inspiring candidate ever.

A leaked video of Mitt Romney's remarks at the home of pizza tycoon John Schnatter show the GOP presidential candidate marveling at the luxurious setting and declaring that Republicans believe that "everyone should live like this."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,2643281.story

Papa Johns pizza sucks but I always thought the owner seemed like a nice guy. Who knew he was a douchebag Republican.

"Republicans believe that everyone should live like a tycoon" Exactly how is that going to work Romney? Jesus Christ.

It's a damn good thing everyone doesn't live like that actually.

Originally Posted by Clak It's a damn good thing everyone doesn't live like that actually.

The dirty secret is that when Romney says "everyone" he isn't talking about you and me.

In Romneyworld, to be somebody you need to have alot of green.

I try to stay as open and in the middle as I can but republicans just baffle the hell out of me. I dont disagree with many of the things they they say but I am just blown away at how many of their plans seems to be fueled by certain sections of the American population just simply vanishing...or not existing.

I was talking to a guy about welfare and how much he thinks.."thats whats wrong with America...blah blah blah." I told him...fine...I agree..worst thing in the world should be cut tomorrow (I dont think this but it was important to my next point)...sooo..I said....now that welfare is gone today what are you going to do with those people who were on it yesterday?

Then he did what I like to call the "Re-pub Shrug" which happens when you ask them a very direct logic based question expecting an answer that solves..."Once you do that...what happens to this."

You know that internet joke:
Step 1: Get on the internet
Step 2: Make a website
Step 3: ??????
Step 4: Profit

This is basically what I get from Repubs when I ask them questions...they never seem to have a 3rd step. When they do its always so basic that you had to have gone to college to say something so stupid. For example...this guy said well they would have to get a job instead of sucking on the tit of the government.....and what if they dont? His answer....ughda;ljlfdasjkldsa;jid shrug shurg...they will become homeless then. So...then what are you going to do with a bunch of newly homeless people?

The conversation ended after that.

Mitt Romney
How do I succeed in life?
Step 1: Take more risk
Step 2: Borrow money from parents
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Do two chicks at the same time because you are a millionaire

I swear I use more energy simply trying to understand what the hell they are talking about because they seem so damn hypocritical...not that the Dems are not but Repub like the Ninjas of double speak.