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Originally Posted by Clak I'm always a bit weary of simple solutions to complicated problems. A lot of things could happen with just one change of a tax code. A massive, quick overhaul, that would drastically simplify things would most likely have some unintended side effects. At the most we need to take some baby steps with our tax system. Change some things slowly, others that have less of an effect more quickly, but the tax brackets definitely need changing.

I can get that. But what I listed really isn't a huge change. People in the lower and middle classes would see taxes go down to offset losing earned income and child credits. But it wouldn't affect their bottom line, and would make filing a tax return simpler as it would just be your income less any valid business related expense deductions.

Those in the upper classes would see taxes go up from new tax brackets, captial gains taxed as regular income etc. More change there, but they can afford it and afford paying an accountant etc. as they already do anyway. Maybe someone would go without now since they aren't trying to find any loophole they can to lower their tax burden anymore if all loopholes are closed.

Originally Posted by yourlefthand I'd probably be more willing to listen to what you have to say if you'd lay off the snide remarks.

I hear this all the time and it is never true.

Since everyone on the left likes talking about taxes as percentages, they are affected in the EXACT SAME WAY! In real dollars, of course, people with more capital gains would be more affected by a rate hike, but real dollar amounts don't seem to matter to many people in this discussion. If we were talking about real dollars someone might admit that Mitt Romney just paid more in taxes last year than many people will gross in their lifetime. He made a lot more than most anyone will, so he should pay more taxes.

Subjective or objective? Pick one. Does utility come into play at all?

Why should a new policy have to have been implemented somewhere else? Aren't we supposed to be leading the world? Many of you have made the claim that we need to tax the rich more. Why don't you provide the evidence that this will work as expected. Maybe you could start with stating what you think a reasonable top tax rate should be.

Don't answer every single question with a question.

I consider it like the healthcare issue, show me a case study of a country that does it a certain way and succeeds.

Originally Posted by yourlefthand Is there a cover of that song with the lyrics "another one gives up hope of having a rational conversation not filled with strawmen and deflections"? cause that one would actually fit what happened...

Why? Because that accurately describes what you're doing?

Originally Posted by yourlefthand Is there a cover of that song with the lyrics "another one gives up hope of having a rational conversation not filled with strawmen and deflections"?

No but there is this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBfYQOSSPqc

Originally Posted by dohdough Why? Because that accurately describes what you're doing?

Hoping to have a reasonable discussion? Yes.

Originally Posted by yourlefthand Hoping to have a reasonable discussion? Yes.

Yeah right...and I'm the queen of Sheba.

Oh hell naw, we've already got the queen of the Scots.

Gotta love it....
http://news.yahoo.com/gop-fires-vend...-election.html

Certain level of irony there, the party pushing for voter ID laws because of fraud hired a company which they think may have created fraudulent registrations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-voters.html

This has to be a new low

Pretty low brow - but I'm absolutely not sure who anyone thinks this is going to convince one way or another.

If anything, it might be seen as an attack directly from the Romney Campaign, would be seen as disgusting and would push a few voters away from Romney...

"You want me in a photo with this cat? Hell no!"

Is that Mitt Romney in a Chipotle?

Originally Posted by yourlefthand Hoping to have a reasonable discussion? Yes.

I haven't had time to read many of your posts, so I don't know if I agree with you at all but get used to the whole, "We are right because you are too stupid to understand that we are" theme they have going here.

The forum goers here have no real need for a reasonable discussion. They seem to think their views are right because one "it is sooo obvious man" and two they have a bunch of "yes men" commenting after them, stroking their ego.

All you can do is provide evidence, and watch their arguments deteriorate.

Poor baby, must be hard being you, no? People always telling you how wrong you are, or how stupid your opinions are, must suck. Then again, you could take that as hint to get a clue, but well...yeah.

Originally Posted by Knoell The forum goers here have no real need for a reasonable discussion.

Agreed.

People consider it mean and unreasonable to not let him win arguments.

Originally Posted by Msut77 People consider it mean and unreasonable to not let him win arguments.

Why can't VS be more like Fox news?

Originally Posted by Knoell I haven't had time to read many of your posts, so I don't know if I agree with you at all but get used to the whole, "We are right because you are too stupid to understand that we are" theme they have going here. The forum goers here have no real need for a reasonable discussion. They seem to think their views are right because one "it is sooo obvious man" and two they have a bunch of "yes men" commenting after them, stroking their ego. All you can do is provide evidence, and watch their arguments deteriorate.

LOLZ..."god did it" and "cuz god sez so" isn't evidence. Removing all context from a word isn't an argument either.

As if there aren't plenty of yes men to agree with knoell. Only difference is that we manage to run some of them off. Bring back Sgtdumbass if you'd like.

Originally Posted by Clak As if there aren't plenty of yes men to agree with knoell. Only difference is that we manage to run some of them off. Bring back Sgtdumbass if you'd like.

Truth be told, they tend to get themselves banned. It's like they're so proud of their bigotry and can't help but try and show everyone how bigoted they are.

It's nice to see some long time vs contrarians pop in again though.