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Interest show, though for some reason it seemed that only CheapyD was really interested in it! Anyway, looking forward to the next one!

Great episode, duders.

But consider my mind blown at the negative comments about Rockstar's story, dialogue and characters. Obviously liking or disliking Rockstar-made games is a matter of personal preference, but I'm shocked you hold Mafia II in such positive regard by comparison. I enjoyed all of the aforementioned stuff in Mafia II also when I saw it on TV late one night years and years ago. It was called Goodfellas.

I find it surprising that Cheapy doesn't find anything interesting in the production values of the Grand Theft Auto Games, and I suppose by extension Red Dead Redemption. I could spend hours listing all of the clever and satirical jokes, commercials and characters throughout the series. Not to mention the comedic talk radio hosts, the quality soundtracks with actual period appropriate music (a decent number of tracks in Mafia II are completely anachronistic) and so on and so forth. I just feel like Rockstar's games pack an infinitely bigger and more original punch than most open world games, Mafia II included.

With all of that being said, I don't hate Mafia II by any means. It looks gorgeous on the PC and I enjoy the gun combat. I just keep noticing this strange, subtle aversion to Rockstar in the last few months.

Alright, end of rant. I suppose I should brace myself for the incoming Rockstar fanboy accusations. Despite the above paragraphs, 'twas truly a quality episode. An eruption of laughter almost made me spit my soda all over my monitor, caused by Wombat's " you for judging" response to Tycho.

Great show, as usual. I just wanted to express my opinion on the whole Xbox Live controversy, especially since I've got a different take on how this affects me as a customer who lives in a U.S. Territory..

I guess I'm still mad at the Xbox Live price hike, but mainly because they're adding features I won't be able to enjoy. I can't watch anything on Hulu since it's region locked (and I'm in Puerto Rico, go figure), and I guess I could care less about ESPN, since I'm not into sports, and it will probably be region locked too. At least the improved audio quality sounds promising, but it's hardly something to get stoked about. We'll see how low and how often those Live cards will be on sale from now on, and if they will be available at the same price range we're used to get them ($30.00-$35.00). Personally, I think they should get rid of Facebook, Last FM, Zune, Twitter, and all that, since it's pretty pointless to have half-assed access to those sites. They could just put a somewhat practical Internet browser on Xbox Live, maybe work on the whole infrastructure of Live (better matchmaking, improved connections), and somehow deal with all the stupidity and nonsense that comes with connecting to their service. I have my privacy settings set to friends only on Xbox Live, and I have a 50-something percent of bad reviews of people accusing me of being overtly aggressive, having a disruptive voice, or whatever, which is funny because I don't even use a mic when I'm not in a party with my friends. I'm pretty sure I;'m going to get banned, or get that Code Of Conduct thing on my profile very soon thanks to all the rage-quitters and dweebs who get mad at you because you're not listening to them while they call you $$$$er/jew/spic/$$$, or because you beat them fair and square at some game. What really sucks is that i would still have to play to use Live because it's the most convenient way to play with my friends when we cannot get together for a few rounds of Super Streets Fighter or whatever game we want to play, and because the silver membership is as useful as a third thumb.

I would gladly pay full price for Xbox Live if I didn't have to deal with my privacy settings because of the assholes who ruin the whole online experience for those of us who just want to have fun. I would be very stoked if i could watch some shitty television show on Hulu without worrying about living in a Third World Country, meaning that I don't have the intellectual capacity to watch enthralling, thought-provoking movies like The Expendables, according to Hulu (and other streaming sites, YouTube included in some occasions), or because everyone who doesn't live in the United States is a pirate or a counterfeiter, as the whole copyright bullshit that appears on every region locked site makes you think. I would be thrilled if having better audio quality over Live didn't meant that I would have to listen to some immature, ignorant, racist piece of shit from who-the--knows, who's not even old enough to wipe his ass by himself, calling everyone names on Xbox Live to fill the void in his already pointless life.

Yeah, it sucks to be Major Nelson right now, but it is not as bad as having to deal with this price hike and knowing you won't be able to take advantage of the majority of the things featured on Xbox Live.

Originally Posted by ZombieJeebus From the 45:13 mark: Wombat: Financially speaking, Best Buy would stop selling consoles if they had no games to sell with them. And if BB, Target, Walmart etc all of a sudden said "we're not selling your consoles anymore, if you don't start releasing some disc based games", then they're not going to sell consoles anymore. Ship: Well what about ipods then? Wombat: ahhhhhhh... ============================= .

I missed the part where I said games had a high profit margin, cause I didn't. But games bring people to the store.

hey guys great show. I did want to comment on the Live discussion. I know Cheapy was pretty much saying that if you do a little bit of homework, you shouldn't have to pay full price for Live so not really as big of a deal for the CAG community. Thing is, I think what you're referring to is largely an American perspective. Amazon.com = great, Amazon.ca = garbage for deals (main reason why Goomba on the forums does well, and he deserves it).
I'm pretty new to the 360 (my first is the new Slim) and I had a very tough time scrounging for deals on Live. This summer has been pretty brutal with no deals really reaching a mind-blastingly status (some decent ones), so it's not a surprise that Live hasn't been on sale for a while.
Anyways, I just wanted to say good show, and with regards to Live, not all regions have the same options for deals as the States.

Wombat, I think you're forgetting about a very important aspect about the digital software only future.
GameStop have already begun preparing for this. Game boxes with just a code inside already exist, and is what will replace the discs, and codes can't be sold back if they're used. This way they still get shelf space, retailers can sell and make a profit on the codes and so forth. You just recently did this at GameStop remember?

Cheers

Originally Posted by Wombat I missed the part where I said games had a high profit margin, cause I didn't. But games bring people to the store.

According to Forbes retailers pull in about $12.00 a disc. (I may be reading this wrong. It might be only a dollar in actual profit.)

Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo make $7.00 per disc. (Also why stores hold sway over MS/Sony/Nintendo, more consoles means more games, which means more licensing fees. Developers will not cut out physical media as long as there is a market to buy it, just like CDs.)


http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3...sivegames.html

Cheapy, Yamaha is a great brand. My old surround setup was a Yamaha 5.1 setup and the sound is warm and sounds good. If that soundbar sounded great to you, I think you should go for it. You can return it if you're not satisfied, right?

Also, I like Cheapy's idea for ship to ship interactions in ME3. Maybe in addition to space battles, you can do diplomacy or other sidemissions that involve ship to ship combat. Similar to the Star Trek TV shows, I guess.

Originally Posted by mik Someone should remind Tycho that a person who gets a game for free from the publisher is no different to the developer than a person who pirates the game.

Not exactly. They're effectively giving them free promotion. If they had offered to just send Penny Arcade $60 for kind words said, that would be insulting for most outlets. A "free" game though, and suddenly hundreds of thousands of laser-targeted consumers hear about their product.

I agree with Tycho on the used debate, he's not wrong. To the developer, it is the same as piracy. It's not a moral judgment.

I also agree with Wombat in that many times, developers don't benefit directly, as is the case when the entire studio is fired after a game is released.

I think we can all agree that buying new is preferred when possible if you want to show your support. The biggest problem is used sales and piracy within a month of release, since that generally really is a lost sale and lost revenue for publishers and developers. Do what you're going to do, but ultimately keep in mind you're always voting with your dollars, so if you really like a game and want to see more, maybe just buy the greatest hits / platinum hits version when that shows up instead of getting it used, or use goozex. Just don't encourage Gamestop, they make enough money as is.

Cheapy, just wanted to say that even though people can get the Live Gold cards for a cheaper price on Amazon and other stores, when the Live Gold is $60, it means the discounts will probably go up $10 as well. For example, I bet Amazon will start charging the Gold subscription card from $40 right now to $50 after the hike goes into effect. It's a lose-lose for all consumers no matter what deals you can find in the future, imo.

Originally Posted by ObiBen I just want to thank Wombat for saying that buying used games does not make you a bad person. After some comments on the Joystiq Podcast last week I was feeling like scum for even thinking about buying a used game.

I agree with you. Wombat was very inciteful. I like Joystiq but they are way off on this one. They keep saying that it is just saving $5, but if you have the Edge card, you get 10% more off. In addition, there are plenty of 25% of used games sales that bring the price down even further. I rarely buy full priced games. I looked for intact and clean used games or wait for price drops. If it is not on Amazon with a credit, I will generally not buy it for full price.

Lastly, my 10 year old son got a $25 Gamestop gift card for his birthday. If he didn't have the option to buy used, there would be very little for him to buy. As it turned out, he found a used copy of Spore Hero and is really enjoying it.

By the way Cheapy, check Amazon, Dell and Buy.com (if you can get shipping to Japan). All three of them have had the Yamaha soundbars as "deals." Amazon had a Gold Box deal on one that dropped it 50% ($1,600 down to $799 if I remember correctly). I ended up with a cheap Sony in a box soundbar, but it gets the job done for what I need.

Why are new games still $60! Its been like 5 years since Xbox 360 hit the streets. You're telling me in 5 years they haven't found ways to make the average game cheaper? Cut corners somewhere and give us a in break.

Originally Posted by Leggo Not exactly. They're effectively giving them free promotion. If they had offered to just send Penny Arcade $60 for kind words said, that would be insulting for most outlets. A "free" game though, and suddenly hundreds of thousands of laser-targeted consumers hear about their product.

I was just being cheeky. I think it's funny to see people who get their games for free criticizing the spending practices of those who don't.

Retailers make lots of bank off of Ipod accessories. Thats were all the profit comes in. All those ear buds, cases,protective screens,bling,adapters,recharge stations,alarm stations, ect. Thats were the money is. On a console theres lots of accessories, but in gerneral most people are probably only buying a few at most, but people are always replacing their ear buds.

Originally Posted by mik I was just being cheeky. I think it's funny to see people who get their games for free criticizing the spending practices of those who don't.

Well

1) They do pay for a lot of games for personal use. They don't get most of them free because they don't actually review titles, but I'm sure Publishers like Ubisoft (who they've worked for a lot in the past with commissioned comics) probably give them freebies.

2) They also buy TENS OF THOUSANDS of games for their Child's Play. None of those are used, as far as I know.

3) They're game devs, technically, and as such are entirely within their rights to speak as game devs when they say the used game industry effectively the same as piracy when it comes to them.

Cheek notwithstanding.

I bought Penny Arcade Adventures used.

Originally Posted by Leggo Well 1) They do pay for a lot of games for personal use. They don't get most of them free because they don't actually review titles, but I'm sure Publishers like Ubisoft (who they've worked for a lot in the past with commissioned comics) probably give them freebies.

Hence PA taking a load of crap when Assassin's Creed got deservedly low scores from some outlets.


I always try to buy games new to support the publisher (and hopefully the developer). The only PS3 game I've bought used since I got my Slim a year ago is RE 5. I bought that used from Gamestop for $22.48 in February so I could buy and play the DLC which cost $14.

I probably would have bought RE 5 Gold new if it had been priced at $40 rather than $50.

I guess Womabat hasn’t been in a 7-Eleven recently. The future isn’t flying cars and microchips in the brain, but in little cardboard tags that give you downloadable codes for your games. You don’t need disk based media if you can sell people a scrap of paper with a little design on it. That costs next to nothing to produce, takes up very little shelf space and can be stocked in almost any kind of store: Perfect example, you can buy Xbox Live Arcade games at 7-Eleven. Just like how now you see iTunes gift cards almost everywhere, I wouldn’t be surprised, in 10 years time, to see must disk-based media replaced by download code cards that you redeem online to download your product. It’s not so far fetched. It’s happening even now.

One of the worst things to come out of this generation is patches and system updates. I have this weird thing about expecting to be able to put in a game and just play, but instead I often have to wait for 30 minutes to an hour to be able to play. It sucks!

I do not want digital distribution to become the standard for consoles... I really don't want to wait over 2 days to download a next generation Final Fantasy, over a day for Metal Gear Solid 4 or almost 8 hours for Mass Effect... (God damn DSL) 50 GBs and 2.046 Mbps, 25 GBs and 2.046 Mbps, 7 GBs and 2.046 Mbps http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html

If one console is DD only and one supports retail games, I'm buying the one that supports retail games and avoiding the DD console like it's a PSP Go.