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Originally Posted by FriskyTanuki Contain your rage to things that are actually real.

I hate stuff like this. Simply because my opinion is opposite of yours I am raging? Where did I rage? I called no names, I gave credit to both consoles where I felt it was due, and simply voiced my opinion. So please, spare me the second rate internet stereotypes like "nerd rage" and "butt hurt."

I don't know where you got the idea that it keeps you from downloading the things you bought until you turn it off.

First, I never said that ANYWHERE in my post. I said that you had to pay to download games while the system was off. IE: Not leave the PS3 running for hours while you download ten game demos. I, obviously, was wrong about this aspect of the service.

However, that only makes it worse. Now I'm not paying extra money to save electricity and the console by being able to turn it off without interrupting long downloads. I'm paying extra money so I don't have to actively turn it on while it downloads updates (which I don't know, but if I had downloads qued, would they continue during the update?) for a select few games that I play REGULARLY (according to blitz6speed), which means there's a good chance they were already updated while I was enroute to playing them anyway.


I'm sorry, man, but you're really not selling me on PS+ over XBL.

Sony charges for the console-off downloads, yes, but as a part of a much larger package. Ranting about that as if it's the only feature you get for PSN+ is very misleading.

I fully understand that, but I was limiting my comment to actual services provided for the yearly fee. I understand there are additional demos and free games that you can keep while PS+ is active, but that's outside of the realm of "pay for online play" or "pay for unmanned system updates", which should both arguably be free.

If you don't want to be accused of raging, you need to leave Caps Lock turned off while you type.

I do hope you get some enjoyment from the PS3 if you ever play any PS3 games.

Originally Posted by Curufinwe If you don't want to be accused of raging, you need to leave Caps Lock turned off while you type. I do hope you get some enjoyment from the PS3 if you ever play any PS3 games.

Right, because using the SHIFT key to emphasize a sentence completely overrides the tone and context of an entire post? What a lazy way to carry on a discussion.

I've played PS3 games, just not on my own PS3, this also isn't my first PSN account. Set up the first with a PSP two and a half years ago. Thanks, though.


Bottom line, by the "Xbox charges you for online" argument, the WII is the better console. Cause it lets you play online for free, and it lets you updated at night for free. So I guess we're done here.

Originally Posted by Broken Cage Right, because using the SHIFT key to emphasize a sentence completely overrides the tone and context of an entire post? What a lazy way to carry on a discussion.

Internet shouting via Caps Lock is what's lazy and FriskyTanuki rightly called you out on it, and on your factual error about having to leave the PS3 on all night.

Originally Posted by Curufinwe Internet shouting via Caps Lock is what's lazy and FriskyTanuki rightly called you out on it, and on your factual error about having to leave the PS3 on all night.

Edit: I just PMed you. No point in arguing in the forums over the validity of Capslock. Is what it is.

this feels like shipwreck may be a little jealous of all the ps3 exclusives this year ( and only 1 on xbox)

Originally Posted by Fell Open Ian Shipwreck easily has the most diverse taste in games of the CAGcast hosts. If anything, the show needs more of that not less.

True, Ship at least plays PSP, Wii and DS games when Cheapy won't even blow the dust off those consoles.

Without question, my favorite CAGcast in the last year. Just when wombat had turned me off with his effort to score the Dragon Age 2 DLC, the three of you guys entered into the spreadsheet discussion.

At a minimum, devoting that much time to Sony underscored the point that you have nothing against that particular company.

Second, hooray for Wombat for noting something I agreed with. Sony should consider copying what's popular. 3rd person actions sells? Well then let's make a good 3rd person action adventure game. You don't need to beat Mass Effect or Fable or Gears on the PS3. You just need to offer the people who want to play that type of game something to buy on your system that is similar and technically sound.

Relating this to Shipwreck's comment about First Person Shooters, Sony should offer an alternative to call of duty as opposed to 7 competing products. You can't beat call of duty, but you don't need to. You only need to get some of those people to buy Killzone to be successful. Don't cannibalize your own sales by baosting 7 FPS's.

Sony's problem is that they think they're smarter than everyone else. Rather than modify their strategy, they refuse to change (as Shipwreck pointed out). The damn bluray player is not going to win you the console war. Stop using that as your marketing cry. Going on and on about the success of the PS2 is not going to sell the PS3. Americans want the next big thing, not a bigger version of the old thing. And that point, (at least to me) is the most fundamental flaw in their way of thinking.



One last comment, from a legal perspective, Splosion man developers could also argue that Capcom's release of a nearly identical product watered down the interest in their product and hurt future sales. So while this would not have taken away from the sales of Splosion man, it certainly could deter people from buying Ms. Splosion man. And this would have nothing to do with confusing the two products as being the same thing.

Once again, great show guys.

Originally Posted by bgame2 Without question, my favorite CAGcast in the last year. Just when wombat had turned me off with his effort to score the Dragon Age 2 DLC, the three of you guys entered into the spreadsheet discussion.

That wasn't my point at all, why would try to "score" something that is already free? I just thought the timing was bad. I don't need to complain for free things anymore, also I have a direct contact at Bioware if I really wanted ask for it.

Geohot and fail0verflow (f0) are not together, they're two separate parties. f0 used the work Geohot did to get to where they got. Geohot has a pretty big name on his side in David S. Touretzky (Research Professor of Computer Science @ Carnegie Mellon University), which will make for a very interesting court battle if Sony proceeds with it. However Sony also made a pretty big screw up when they donated money to Geohot. As for f0 the majority (if not all of them) aren't American. All this boils down to is that Sony is just trying to put fear in people who are thinking about doing the custom firmware.

The goal of f0 (the ones who release the keys) was never to jailbreak it for piracy use, though they acknowledged their work would make it possible. The bigger problem with the hack is that it is ruining online play for certain games (see CoD: MW2).

Sony is the only one of the big 3 that gets super butt hurt over things like this. 360 and Wii have been jail-broken for quite a while now, you could argue that is what helps sell systems. You could also argue that fighting piracy so vehemently drives people who crack and pirate. If your game is good enough people will buy it.

/edit
It is also worth noting that Geohot is the same person who did the first jailbreak for iPhones, which ultimately lead to a change in the DMCA making it LEGAL to jail break your phone. Anyone who thinks that is a bad thing should probably have their head examined.

Originally Posted by Wombat That wasn't my point at all, why would try to "score" something that is already free? I just thought the timing was bad. I don't need to complain for free things anymore, also I have a direct contact at Bioware if I really wanted ask for it.

A fair point but sometimes people prefer to provoke someone to offer something rather than ask for it. lol.

As I said though, your points during the spreadsheet discussion were spot-on and well thought out. While this may not sound like a compliment it is certainly meant to be. It is probably the only time I can remember where the three of you had an in depth conversation of that length which stayed on-topic and had active participation by everyone. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

(Edited for Grammar - typed too fast)

Originally Posted by bredbu this feels like shipwreck may be a little jealous of all the ps3 exclusives this year ( and only 1 on xbox)

I'd love to see the flowchart of thoughts that brought you to this conclusion.

Originally Posted by HatManTC my take on why Epic Mickey sold so well is parents needed something to get their kids for their Wii for Xmas. they figured what kid doesn't like Mickey Mouse. so they picked that game up for them. i am not saying Epic Mickey is a bad game what so ever, just saying with that many Wiis out there. it was a diven that it would sell well over the holidays.

That's exactly what happened in my family. Grandma wanted to get a game for my 7 year old son and Epic Mickey seemed like the perfect gift to her. He's played it twice since the holidays and told me that the camera is annoying. Instead he plays Smackdown vs. Raw and Angry Birds on the PS3.

Originally Posted by jkanownik Sony should be selling a dream of unmatched cinematic realism to the masses. The sooner they replace the "it only does everything" tagline the better off they'll be.

Sony and Microsoft have been trying to do that for years. It doesn't work, the dream of unmatched cinematic realism only sells to the hardcore gamers that have already purchased their consoles. To the masses Kinect, Move and the Wii are what sell, the Wii already showed that this generation.

Originally Posted by jh6269 I think (s)he meant that you have to have PS+ to allow your system to download games when it's off--otherwise you end up waiting for a patch to download right when you're wanting to play a game.

Which it can't do anyway, as the closest is the system being able to finish downloading and installing games before turning itself off.

Originally Posted by Broken Cage I hate stuff like this. Simply because my opinion is opposite of yours I am raging? Where did I rage? I called no names, I gave credit to both consoles where I felt it was due, and simply voiced my opinion. So please, spare me the second rate internet stereotypes like "nerd rage" and "butt hurt."

I never said anything about nerd rage or being butt hurt, but TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS SIGNIFYING THAT YOU ARE SHOUTING SOMETHING LOUDLY SO THAT EVERYBODY SEES YOUR OUTRAGE. Also, I didn't give any kind of opinion at all, just corrected a fact that you were misinformed about.

Originally Posted by Broken Cage I First, I never said that ANYWHERE in my post. I said that you had to pay to download games while the system was off. IE: Not leave the PS3 running for hours while you download ten game demos. I, obviously, was wrong about this aspect of the service. However, that only makes it worse. Now I'm not paying extra money to save electricity and the console by being able to turn it off without interrupting long downloads. I'm paying extra money so I don't have to actively turn it on while it downloads updates (which I don't know, but if I had downloads qued, would they continue during the update?) for a select few games that I play REGULARLY (according to blitz6speed), which means there's a good chance they were already updated while I was enroute to playing them anyway.

Let me refresh you on where you said that Sony charges you to download content you paid for while the PS3 is off:

Originally Posted by You SONY CHARGES YOU TO DOWNLOAD CONTENT YOU PAID FOR WHILE THE PS3 IS OFF

Which is not anywhere close to the truth because the PS3 can't even do this at all, so Sony cannot be charging for a feature it doesn't even have. I don't get how it's worse that they're not charging for that feature.

You're free to set the system to turn off after your downloads finish and install, which is the closest thing to the phantom feature. If you just turn the system off, you can continue the downloads the next time that you turn it on. So if you're concerned about wasting electricity, then just turn it off and continue the downloads when you're going to use the system next.

You can't download two things at once (update + a demo), so it wouldn't download whatever's left unless the system is turning on to grab a demo that Sony pushes out to PS+. You could easily play a game while this extremely large demo is downloading so that it downloads in the background like on XBL, though playing anything online will cause it to stop, like on XBL. Unless I missed something, you don't have PS+ and thus don't really need to worry or get upset about what you're paying for since it's not doing what you thought it did. The Automatic Download feature is just an added bonus to the actual content that they get, though I'd prefer it to be free because it's a really good idea.

Originally Posted by Broken Cage I'm sorry, man, but you're really not selling me on PS+ over XBL.

I didn't know that my sole reason to be here was to sell you on PS+. I don't care if you want it or not, as I was just correcting a false fact that you were loudly yelling about.

Originally Posted by bgame2 Second, hooray for Wombat for noting something I agreed with. Sony should consider copying what's popular. 3rd person actions sells? Well then let's make a good 3rd person action adventure game. You don't need to beat Mass Effect or Fable or Gears on the PS3. You just need to offer the people who want to play that type of game something to buy on your system that is similar and technically sound.

Uncharted?

Originally Posted by msdmoney Sony and Microsoft have been trying to do that for years. It doesn't work, the dream of unmatched cinematic realism only sells to the hardcore gamers that have already purchased their consoles. To the masses Kinect, Move and the Wii are what sell, the Wii already showed that this generation.

There are different markets and a difference between mass (e.g. Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto) and casual (e.g. Wii Sports/Mario).

I wasn't talking about the casual market. I was talking about the fact that Gears of War 2 sold 50% better than Uncharted 2 in the US. Or that Red Dead on 360 crushed the PS3 version in the US. Or that Heavy Rain didn't have a cinematic trailer run on TV or in theaters in the US.

Originally Posted by kingkiller33 True, Ship at least plays PSP, Wii and DS games when Cheapy won't even blow the dust off those consoles.

Yet Ship can't tell that Socom and Call of Duty are two totally different games for different types of markets.

The more I think about how completely ridiculous this entire episode was, the more I think that this episode could be the CAGCast's "jump the shark" moment.

I think Microsoft exclusives are pretty much always going to sell better in the US than Sony exclusives on the whole because Microsoft exclusives are developed from a US viewpoint whereas Sony's tend to be more European, Global, or Japanese. No amount of marketing is gonna change that.

Sony really has the best long-term strategy if they can keep an edge in European and Japanese markets, because America is going to continue to lose its economic edge, and as other markets grow, they'll be more prevalent worldwide. They're trending the right direction.

Microsoft however... They're still catering too heavily to the NA crowd. As cliche as it is to say, they need to diversify their portfolio. I suppose they tried with Alan Wake, but we saw how well Xbox360 fans supported that venture.

Originally Posted by shipwreck I'd love to see the flowchart of thoughts that brought you to this conclusion.

im just saying as im listening to your speech it reminds me of times when my friends would get a cooler toy than i had and i would try to justify why mine was still better. I actually have not really read any of the other comments i was referring to the podcast while listening to it.

Dont get me wrong i really like you and cheapy and wombat and i love the show. Im just saying it felt a little bit defensive/jealous