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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 Not necessarily. Rumor the other day was that Howard wants to go to NJ and is refusing to sign a long-term deal with any team but NJ.

They don't have the assets the Magic want. Brook Lopez and two late first round picks is not going to be enough. Dwight said he would go to LA, Dallas, or NJ, and LA is the only one with enough assets to trade for him.

We'll see. There are some rumors of the Magic getting Bynum and Gasol and the Lakers getting Howard, Nelson and Turkoglu.

I'd go for that. If it's just Bynum and picks or whatever, I'd go with Lopez and picks from NJ. Bynum is injury prone and overrated when healthy.

Though I don't like trading Nelson. Who's going to play point then with him gone and Arenas released? Chris Duhon?

Originally Posted by CaseyRyback Odom coming to Dallas and not NO is great. It means LA can go get Howard, which means that Deron Williams won't stay in NJ and will get lured back home by Cuban.

I dunno, I'm not sure why he would want to go to Dallas next year, they'll just be an older team on the decline.

Never really liked the NBA much, but this year I decided to permanently throw my support behind to the 76ers (I have relatives in Philly and have liked the Phillies for years). They should be decent this year, but I'm not expecting much.

Jason Richardson resigned for 4 years $25 mil.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 We'll see. There are some rumors of the Magic getting Bynum and Gasol and the Lakers getting Howard, Nelson and Turkoglu. I'd go for that. If it's just Bynum and picks or whatever, I'd go with Lopez and picks from NJ. Bynum is injury prone and overrated when healthy. Though I don't like trading Nelson. Who's going to play point then with him gone and Arenas released? Chris Duhon?

I don't see Nelson being dealt without some PG already signed. Like you said, there is no way they run with Duhon and ??? (not sure who would even be backup at that point).

When it is all said, I think NJ deals Lopez and some draft picks for Howard/Hedo. The rumor states they most likely use amnesty on Outlaw, which will open room to take Hedo.

Oh and I also will say Dallas has ZERO chance in getting him.

I'd like to see Howard in Chicago, but I would never want to completely gut our team to get him....which is exactly what it would take to get him. I personally am not a fan of him as he is a really dirty player, but I guess every team needs one of those. I hope New Jersey gets him so we don't screw our team chemistry up.

Originally Posted by Prepster I'd like to see Howard in Chicago, but I would never want to completely gut our team to get him....which is exactly what it would take to get him. I personally am not a fan of him as he is a really dirty player, but I guess every team needs one of those. I hope New Jersey gets him so we don't screw our team chemistry up.

I don't think that the Bulls would need to gut the team for Howard. The deal would probably include Noah, Deng, probably another player and some draft picks. I would deal for Howard in a heartbeat because explosive centers like this are not available everyday. He also a fantastic defender. The Bulls defense would be scary if Howard was here with coach Thibodeau leading the charge. Get it done GarPax!!!

Originally Posted by docvinh I dunno, I'm not sure why he would want to go to Dallas next year, they'll just be an older team on the decline.

D-Will is from The Colony. Coming home to play for a great owner might be high on his agenda.

So the league blocks the trade for paul cause stupid ass Cuban and Gilbert etc starting bitching and whining that they didnt like him going to a big market. Yet Paul to the clippers has been submitted to the nba which is uhh in the same big ing market as the Lakers.

Originally Posted by renique46 So the league blocks the trade for paul cause stupid ass Cuban and Gilbert etc starting bitching and whining that they didnt like him going to a big market. Yet Paul to the clippers has been submitted to the nba which is uhh in the same big ing market as the Lakers.

Yes but lets compare the fanbase (i.e. True market value)...

http://www.nba.com/magic/denton_involvement_121111.html

Apparently one of the main reasons Howard wants out is because he didn't think he was given enough say in personnel matters.

Originally Posted by renique46 So the league blocks the trade for paul cause stupid ass Cuban and Gilbert etc starting bitching and whining that they didnt like him going to a big market. Yet Paul to the clippers has been submitted to the nba which is uhh in the same big ing market as the Lakers.

The Clippers offer if it includes Gordon is an unbelievable deal. Remember Minn pick is unprotected.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 http://www.nba.com/magic/denton_involvement_121111.html Apparently one of the main reasons Howard wants out is because he didn't think he was given enough say in personnel matters.

Sad to think this was his reason...

Originally Posted by kill3r7 The Clippers offer if it includes Gordon is an unbelievable deal. Remember Minn pick is unprotected.

Gordon isn't part of the deal... it is Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu, and the Minn unprotected draft pick (to a good 2012 class; potential top pick) for Paul.

Originally Posted by lordopus99 Sad to think this was his reason... Gordan isn't part of the deal... it is Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu, and the Minn unprotected draft pick (to a good 2012 class; potential top pick) for Paul.

Can't believe they got away with not including Gordon, guess it's not the worst deal ever.

Originally Posted by lordopus99 Sad to think this was his reason... Gordon isn't part of the deal... it is Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu, and the Minn unprotected draft pick (to a good 2012 class; potential top pick) for Paul.

What are you saying? Sad that this is why Howard wants out? If so what is sad about it? A superstar player wants superstars around him so he can win...he played hard through out his contract, he fulfilled his end of the bargain what more do you want from him?

I just disagree with this whole mentality that people should be forced or guilt them into staying with a team forever just because. Its a give and take, he is getting paid for his talents...getting paid his the least of Howards worries. They failed to keep him happy so now he wants to leave.

I dont understand why more teams do not take the OKC approach, they drafted a superstar and then did their research to find the best players that will fit the system. It didnt happen overnight (hell they didnt even exist a couple years ago) but now they are considered a threat to go deep into the playoffs. Its Cleveland all over again, you had 7 years with Howard who have you traded for or drafted that really has made an impact? Then it says that Smith was busy resiging J-Rich so he couldnt talk to Howard about his desire to leave......what the is that shit and people ask why he wants to leave? Howard the single greatest center talent since Shaq and he is lower on the list than a well past his prime SG? If I was Howard I would be saying the exact same as LBJ said a year ago. I am taking my talents to.......


You can really see the difference in mentality when you compare OKC to other teams.

Originally Posted by docvinh Can't believe they got away with not including Gordon, guess it's not the worst deal ever.

You got to ask yourself who starts at Center... Kaman going, Jordan signed to huge contract (42 mil for 4 years) at GS (will LA match if they can...), that leaves them with moving a PF to C and playing small.

Plus they give up a potential #1 to a good 2012 draft class. The upside can be real high with that pick.

Originally Posted by Soodmeg What are you saying? Sad that this is why Howard wants out? If so what is sad about it? A superstar player wants superstars around him so he can win...he played hard through out his contract, he fulfilled his end of the bargain what more do you want from him? I just disagree with this whole mentality that people should be forced or guilt them into staying with a team forever just because. Its a give and take, he is getting paid for his talents...getting paid his the least of Howards worries. They failed to keep him happy so now he wants to leave. I dont understand why more teams do not take the OKC approach, they drafted a superstar and then did their research to find the best players that will fit the system. It didnt happen overnight (hell they didnt even exist a couple years ago) but now they are considered a threat to go deep into the playoffs. Its Cleveland all over again, you had 7 years with Howard who have you traded for or drafted that really has made an impact? Then it says that Smith was busy resiging J-Rich so he couldnt talk to Howard about his desire to leave......what the is that shit and people ask why he wants to leave? Howard the single greatest center talent since Shaq and he is lower on the list than a well past his prime SG? If I was Howard I would be saying the exact same as LBJ said a year ago. I am taking my talents to....... You can really see the difference in mentality when you compare OKC to other teams.

Otis Smith is a former player who takes a really active role in managing a team. When you allow Players to control teams, you have people looking out for their friends, whether they are great or not i.e. Shaq with Brian Shaw. Otis Smith has tried to bring in quality players, whether they panned out or not; he has tried. It has paid off to an extent; they have made the NBA Finals and have done fair in the playoffs for a couple years now. Just some numbers...
All previous season to being a Magic player...
- Rashard Lewis - 46.1%, 22.4pts, 6.6reb, 2.4ast, 1.1 stl, 0.7 blk
- Vince Carter - 43.7%, 20.8pts, 5.1reb, 4.7ast, 1 stl, 0.5 blk
- Jason Richardson - 47.0%, 19.3pts, 4.4reb, 1.4ast, 1.1stl, 0.1 blk
These are pretty good numbers... not scrubs.

It also doesn't include moves to bring in guys that played better than they really are...
- Hedo Turkoglu (Round 1)
- Mickael Pietrus
- Brandon Bass
- Ryan Anderson
- Trevor Ariza

That doesn't include two panned out draft picks i.e. Martin Gortat and JJ Redick.

The problem currently isn't about the quality of players. It is about coaching. What no one is allowed to rebound with Howard? What all players are forced to shoot outside jumpballs? What no one can pick for another player? This has been the Magic's problem winning a championship. Phoenix ran this offense for plenty of years and couldn't win so why could the Magic with a bunch of slashers at guards popping up for jumpshots at 3 point distance... at least during Phoenix's run they had true 3 point shooters on the wing...

Rashard Lewis would have been fine he if didn't sign for the max.


as for giving player a say in personnel matters, remember when Kobe wanted to trade Bynum for Jason Kidd?

I do agree that their play calling is horrid at worst and mind boggling at best but I fully disagree about quality players. Lewis will forever be remember has having THE WORST CONTRACT in the history of the NBA and basically kept them from getting any other players for the entire duration.

Also, and this is what I am talking about when I say you can see the difference between OKC and other teams...Lewis, Carter, J-Rich are basically all the same guy. They are all outside jump shooters that will drive every once and a while but are not known for pick and rolls, drive and dishes, etc. Do they really help out a Center? No. Hedo? Does he help out a center being a 6 foot 10 shooting guard? No he is another outside jumper shooter that cant create offense for other but can for himself. Pietrus is probably their best role player that fits the system has he can a basic all around guy, Bass is another solid role player.

The problem is one part coaching but 2 parts not picking quality guys to play IF you are trying to build around a center. You picked up guys who put up numbers but dont do anything to advance the team. If just scoring 20 a game got you a championship we wouldnt have only 5 teams every winning it because there are plenty of guys in the league who can put up 20. OKC picked guys who progressed their team because they fit into what KD does well...thats what I call building around a player.

All these years and you still dont have a high caliber PG who can run an offense...(why are you not talking about getting Billups right now pursuing him would have help in keeping Howard) you never got a solid starting PF (I like bass but he is solely a back up) You never had a solid SF either.My point I guess is that in 7 years you managed to build a team of shooting guards of various sizes. Just making moves for the sake of making moves (trade hedo trade back for hedo WTF) isnt enough as with the Cavs you never really found a why to progress the franchise and as a result your superstar is leaving.

Hindsight is 20/20 but you should have never had Lewis, pick either Carter OR J-Rich you dont need both they are the same player, the gimmick of having a 6ft 10 SG in Hedo wears off after a while. The bottom line for me is its ok to be shit if you have a long term goal. Yes you would have lost more games but you would have had the money to attract higher quality players in the long term.You had a defensive/rebounding C, where is your scoring PF? Where is your slashing SF, you have 8 jumpshooting SG, where is the drive and dish PG?

Originally Posted by 62t Rashard Lewis would have been fine he if didn't sign for the max. as for giving player a say in personnel matters, remember when Kobe wanted to trade Bynum for Jason Kidd?

I dont understand, because that would have been a good trade. Bynum is pretty shitty and Jason Kidd still a HOF PG who can run a offense. Injury prone 7fters are a dime a trillion.