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I think they are making a HUGE mistake with the branding and marketing of this thing. No one outside of us nerds knows that this is an entirely new console. It's just not easy to tell.

Originally Posted by Javery I think they are making a HUGE mistake with the branding and marketing of this thing. No one outside of us nerds knows that this is an entirely new console. It's just not easy to tell.

I think there's a strategy here, but it hinges on a lot of luck. It basically boils down to:

• The initial rounds of hardware will sell out given the holiday season and the cyclical nature of the industry relying on a hardware refresh every 5-6 years. This is also helped by fanboys/gamers/people who actually know it's a new (I said "good" here originally but that's the wrong word) console.
• The above is bolstered by word-of-mouth where those initial consumers will show friends and family. This is almost EXACTLY what happened with the Wii, as I have clear memories of playing it with family at Thanksgiving a week after launch.
• By the time Christmas hits, there will be a mad rush for it from kids and families scrambling to get one. The fervor continues until at least March 2013.
• Notice also that Nintendo is NOT selling Gamepads individually right now, and haven't given a time when they will. This is to drive home that this is a new console, because there absolutely will be people "just gimme one of the new Wii controllers." It's strange that some games offer two pad support, but Nintendo isn't selling entirely because they can't afford the confusion. This has been quietly downplayed, but is arguably the cornerstone of the launch in terms of education.
• There will probably be a big title announcement early next year, either from Retro or Monolith. I also suspect rumblings about Brawl will show up at E3. By that time, the public SHOULD understand the entire platform.

Any one of those things goes wrong, and/or the promotional materials aren't effective, and Nintendo is going to have another 3DS type launch on their hands. Unless the next commercials specifically point out this is a new console (since for some stupid reason the first one doesn't outright state this), they are obviously relying entirely on social networking type advertisement, hardware tours, and kiosks.

Originally Posted by Javery I think they are making a HUGE mistake with the branding and marketing of this thing. No one outside of us nerds knows that this is an entirely new console. It's just not easy to tell.

2-3x price jump will make it pretty obvious.

Wii U account system and Nintendo Network ID detailed

November 7th, 2012 Posted in News, Posted by Austin, Posted by Valay, Wii U Satoru Iwata outlined how the Wii U’s account system will work during today’s Japanese Nintendo Direct.
One of the first things you’ll do on the console is make a user account. Up to twelve users with the own Miis can be registered per system.
Once created, you can tie-in game settings, save data, browser bookmarks, and play history to your account.
To get involved with features such as video chat, you’ll need a Nintendo Network ID. This is made up of a username, password, email, date of birth info, and gender. Downloadable purchases made by one Nintendo Network user can be played by other users on the same console.

Originally Posted by Strell I think there's a strategy here, but it hinges on a lot of luck. It basically boils down to: The initial rounds of hardware will sell out given the holiday season and the cyclical nature of the industry relying on a hardware refresh every 5-6 years. This is also helped by fanboys/gamers/people who actually know it's a new (I said "good" here originally but that's the wrong word) console. The above is bolstered by word-of-mouth where those initial consumers will show friends and family. This is almost EXACTLY what happened with the Wii, as I have clear memories of playing it with family at Thanksgiving a week after launch. By the time Christmas hits, there will be a mad rush for it from kids and families scrambling to get one. The fervor continues until at least March 2013. Notice also that Nintendo is NOT selling Gamepads individually right now, and haven't given a time when they will. This is to drive home that this is a new console, because there absolutely will be people "just gimme one of the new Wii controllers." It's strange that some games offer two pad support, but Nintendo isn't selling entirely because they can't afford the confusion. This has been quietly downplayed, but is arguably the cornerstone of the launch in terms of education. There will probably be a big title announcement early next year, either from Retro or Monolith. I also suspect rumblings about Brawl will show up at E3. By that time, the public SHOULD understand the entire platform. Any one of those things goes wrong, and/or the promotional materials aren't effective, and Nintendo is going to have another 3DS type launch on their hands. Unless the next commercials specifically point out this is a new console (since for some stupid reason the first one doesn't outright state this), they are obviously relying entirely on social networking type advertisement, hardware tours, and kiosks.

I definitely agree with your points - especially the first three which HAVE to happen for this thing to take off. Risky if you ask me.

The fourth bullet point is telling though - and worrisome. If this is truly what Nintendo is thinking then shouldn't they have gone a different direction with the name? Even the part of the box that we can see in that unboxing video says:

..................U
Wii

Confusing!

Also, the design of the console itself looks exactly like the Wii which, in theory, is great because it looks slick and compact but in all of the commercials and promotional materials it would be easy to mistake the WiiU for the Wii - especially since the gamepad is always up front and more prominent. It really looks like an add-on.

How many people are going to be curious about one of the games they see and then go to the store expecting to spend $100 or so on the add-on only to find out they have to spend $350 on something entirely new. I want this to work - I really do - but I am just so skeptical and not because of the actual console itself but rather the way they have handled the publicity and launch.

Originally Posted by Strell Notice also that Nintendo is NOT selling Gamepads individually right now, and haven't given a time when they will. This is to drive home that this is a new console, because there absolutely will be people "just gimme one of the new Wii controllers." It's strange that some games offer two pad support, but Nintendo isn't selling entirely because they can't afford the confusion. This has been quietly downplayed, but is arguably the cornerstone of the launch in terms of education.

That's an interesting hypothesis, but I don't think it's the primary cause for this. It doesn't feel genuine, what kind of business entity says, "I've got it! We'll NOT sell them what they want!"

Granted, the effect of tying the tablet to the NEW console is an incidental educational benefit, but when did Nintendo ever balk at the opportunity to sell an accessory they've invested this much R&D in? If they had enough handhelds to sell to everyone who wanted 15 of them, they'd do it. But they're not doing that. Which leads to the conclusion that they're waiting on tablets, and they're not about to cannibalize console sales for the sake of accessory sales.

And none of that takes away from the strategy you've otherwise detailed. The only distinction I would make would be to call it "last-minute tactics" instead of strategy. I think it's clear they're not where they thought they would be in terms of unit production and title development, and as a result we have a "launch window" instead of a "launch date."

I've had my head patted in this thread that I should take it easy, that Nintendo knows what they're doing, but I think based on the tenor of the E3 announcements and the launch announcement, it's clear enough that Nintendo hasn't had a solid foothold on what to do with this console. That ties in with the Launch Window concept. The 3DS affair gave them a wake-up, and now they're feeling very uncertain. The strategy doesn't seem so much strategic as it does hopeful for a lucky break in both popularity and production.

Originally Posted by Strell It's strange that some games offer two pad support, but Nintendo isn't selling entirely because they can't afford the confusion.

While the console itself offers support for two gamepads, I don't think there's been any games announced that are planning to support two, and Nintendo has said they don't expect any to until some time next year.

But yes, I do recall them saying that they're not selling them right now in order to avoid confusion -- not necessarily about it being a new console, though, but just because they don't want people buying two expecting to be able to use two.

Originally Posted by madcatz1999 But yes, I do recall them saying that they're not selling them right now in order to avoid confusion -- not necessarily about it being a new console, though, but just because they don't want people buying two expecting to be able to use two.

I just replied on this topic. The fact that there aren't any games that use 2 tablets as a reason to withhold tablet-as-accessory sales makes more sense than doing that as a kind of educational effort. I had forgotten that games that can use +1 tablet are still in the pipeline. It's a good point.

I'm still torn a little, because it's unlike any company, let alone Nintendo, to turn down accessory sales. But I can see how it might backfire on them if they're not supporting 2+ tablet use out of the gate.

Originally Posted by dothog I'm still torn a little, because it's unlike any company, let alone Nintendo, to turn down accessory sales. But I can see how it might backfire on them if they're not supporting 2+ tablet use out of the gate.

With this system, Nintendo isn't treating the tablet controller as though it were an accessory. They consider it to be a part of the console itself.

The Wii U will still be a smorgasbord of accessory sales, just like the Wii before it. I'm sure most of you have noticed all the Wii U-branded Wiimotes that are showing up on store shelves already. Those are still being sold for $40 a pop, six years after the Wii launched. And the nun-chuck is still $20. No, the Wii U isn't going to be hurting for accessory sales.

The Thanksgiving angle is significant. This is part of the reason why I would consider picking one up at launch. The Wii was good fun for the whole family, and when I brought it to our families Thanksgiving and Christmas get-togethers, everyone had a good time playing it. Even my parents were able to enjoy Wii Bowling and Wii Golf. (who knew my mother would be such a deft hand at bowling?) The Wii U looks like it will also have a strong local multiplayer focus, which is perfect for family holidays. If I do splurge on a launch Wii U, that will be why.

Originally Posted by dothog I just replied on this topic. The fact that there aren't any games that use 2 tablets as a reason to withhold tablet-as-accessory sales makes more sense than doing that as a kind of educational effort. I had forgotten that games that can use +1 tablet are still in the pipeline. It's a good point. I'm still torn a little, because it's unlike any company, let alone Nintendo, to turn down accessory sales. But I can see how it might backfire on them if they're not supporting 2+ tablet use out of the gate.

I concur with that second statement, but I also believe Reggie has indicated that the Gamepad supply is a little constrained too.

So perhaps call it a happy coincidence, the current offerings mean there is no chance for someone to accidentally purchase just a gamepad and try to use it on a Wii, cant buy an extra gamepad and be unable to buy "two gamepad" games, and allows Nintendo to ship more complete Wii U systems.

Originally Posted by dothog I've had my head patted in this thread that I should take it easy, that Nintendo knows what they're doing, but I think based on the tenor of the E3 announcements and the launch announcement, it's clear enough that Nintendo hasn't had a solid foothold on what to do with this console. That ties in with the Launch Window concept. The 3DS affair gave them a wake-up, and now they're feeling very uncertain. The strategy doesn't seem so much strategic as it does hopeful for a lucky break in both popularity and production.

I get a similar feeling at least with NOA, that they arent entirely certain how to pitch this system to a Western audience in love with iOS gaming and XBL/PSN gaming.

Nintendo clearly has been experimenting with asymmetric gameplay for years (GBA - Gamecube) (DS - Wii), but until now haven't been able to guarantee that experience in a way that didn't require two systems. However, they had also been playing with 3D systems for years and the resulting 3DS has had some stumblings.

Will be interesting.

Something I noticed in the unboxing of the Deluxe set: no game disc. So it would appear that Nintendoland is a download, presumably pre-installed. I don't have a problem with this, just noting it. Or maybe Iwata just forgot to show the disc.

That was for the Japanese console release, I'm pretty sure. They aren't getting Nintendoland as a pack-in.

Oooh. Oops.

@King Javery

The argument is that "Microsoft made the Xbox and Xbox 360 and no one was confused." But I generally view this as kind of weak for a number of reasons, mainly because A) the graphic leap was significant, B) it's marketing has always trended as more gamer-centric (although not so much the case since the release of the Kinect), and C) everything was redesigned aesthetically. I don't remember launch materials for it, so I don't know if it loudly talked about being a new console.

I also think the branding could have been changed a little. I posted this a while ago, but I think either "Wii 2U" or "Wii U2" would have worked, since they could focus on the "U" element while also up front declaring the system as a successor.

I also think there is a philosophical disagreement between Nintendo and everyone-else-at-large because Iwata/Miyamoto have repeatedly said that the system itself should be downplayed as part of the equation, which is why commercials and E3 materials don't showcase it directly. Hell, E3 2011 was crazy enough because they never SPECIFICALLY highlighted it. It wasn't until after that first video that everyone started trying to find out if it was a damn new console or not, especially when the first assets weren't a huge step above Wii level graphics (with all the focus on Wii Sports stuff).

@Dothoggamus

Fair enough. Strategy might be too strong. I think others gave some good points as well regarding the multiple Gamepad stuff.

There's also been some talk that there have been production issues arise in recent months, which is why Nintendo has said the system is now selling at a loss (which they've wavered on, but were adamant that this wouldn't be the case back in September).

I feel like I should be responding to more things but I'm a little tied up right now.

Originally Posted by Strell There's also been some talk that there have been production issues arise in recent months, which is why Nintendo has said the system is now selling at a loss (which they've wavered on, but were adamant that this wouldn't be the case back in September).

Supply issues near launch isn't something that Nintendo is going to worry about. For them, it is much better to have too few consoles available initially than too many.

Strong sales out of the gate in the US would be bad for Nintendo, even if they had the supply necessary. With the strength of the yen against the dollar, the profits for Nintendo exporting their system to the US aren't nearly as high as selling the Wii U in Japan, or even Europe. (this disparity almost certainly figures into the whole selling at a loss angle)

If they over produce and the demand isn't as great as they anticipated, they get to eat the production costs of the unsold units. If they under produce, the worst case is that the demand becomes artificially inflated. This hurts them a from a PR standpoint, but only by a very small amount. This scenario involves lost potential sales, but is overall much less risky.

Your second point, about over- vs. under-producing, stands, I can see the sense in that. As for the first point, I'm by no means an economist, but this "strength of the yen" argument seems to me to be very exaggerated. Which is to say where's the USD to the JPY right now vs. time/point of manufacture? And if you're playing currency games, where do they manufacture the components, and what's the JPY doing relative to that local currency? I don't know, you may have a handle on this, but to me it seems like very touchy feeley, hand waving analysis.

If they had units to sell, they'd sell them. They're not offering up a boutique item, they want consoles in homes. Their sales are limited by production and not by some master strategy. They've underproduced for the reasons you mentioned (reinforced by the 3DS experience). They'd rather make people wait than eat a bunch of units they can't move, especially given that they don't have much of a sense of the market for this thing. The momentum from the Wii died off, and the 3DS response was tepid, so they're feeling in the dark on this one the way they were with the Wii. Let's hope the tablet catches on...

Has Nintendo always used panny tv sets in the Nintendo Direct videos?

Originally Posted by dothog If they had units to sell, they'd sell them.

Yes, they would. However, they would very much prefer to sell them in Japan than they would in the US. Believe me, the whole yen vs. dollar issue is huge right now. Japan's economy is facing a pretty nasty economic crisis because of it. Japan as a nation exports a lot of products. While they are able to sell a lot of those products domestically, a lot more go overseas.

The US has become the biggest market worldwide for video game sales over the past decade and a half. Thanks to that, Nintendo can't afford to ignore the US, and has to commit a decent number of units to sell over here. At the same time, the US audience is considerably more price-shy than any other region when it comes to video games. As a general rule of thumb, we aren't willing to pay as much for our video game hardware. Nintendo can charge more for their hardware in Japan, and still maintain high sales. The same will not be true in the US.

The US is going to be a battleground for the video game industry in the upcoming console cycle. Japan already belongs to Nintendo, with Sony playing catch-up. Europe is a growing concern, but still doesn't account for as much market share as the US. With the uncertainty surrounding the Wii U, and the continued delay in Sony and Microsoft's next efforts, we're entering into a very turbulent time. This scenario could shake out in any number of ways.

Nintendo will attempt to produce and ship every Wii U unit they can. But if there are any hang-ups with manufacturing and supply is limited, the adverse effect will be quite mild. (and temporary) They are a bit uncertain of how this will work out, but then so is everyone else. If that wasn't the case, we would have already heard about the Playstation 4 and whatever Microsoft calls their next console.

Funny thing. Nintendo appears to be focusing Wii U production on the US, not Japan:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201..._focused_on_us