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Originally Posted by integralsmatic If the D-Backs cant lock up Prado, then Wren hijacked the D-Backs. They still kept Andrelton Simmons. There was no room for Randal Delgado in that rotation anyway so he became expendable. Not giving up simmons was just a huge bonus. well played wren.

Yep. It was a great move. Got a great player and didn't give up any key pieces at all.

Have Justin Upton and Heyward locked up through the 2015 season, and BJ Upton through 2017, so the outfield is set for the next few seasons barring injury. And they added some needed power to the line up.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 Yep. It was a great move. Got a great player and didn't give up any key pieces at all. Have Justin Upton and Heyward locked up through the 2015 season, and BJ Upton through 2017, so the outfield is set for the next few seasons barring injury. And they added some needed power to the line up.

Not just power, right-handed power. And people are sleeping on Chris Johnson as a throw-in to that deal. I think he has a chance to be a solid player if he's given the opportunity. I'm not really sold on Juan Francisco.

I still wanna believe in Dan Duquette, I really wanna. But the "Nobody wants anyone but Bundy or Machado" excuse is wearing thin. At least sign Bourn or something!

Originally Posted by DNukem170 I still wanna believe in Dan Duquette, I really wanna. But the "Nobody wants anyone but Bundy or Machado" excuse is wearing thin. At least sign Bourn or something!

Angelos wont give him the money.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 Yep. It was a great move. Got a great player and didn't give up any key pieces at all. Have Justin Upton and Heyward locked up through the 2015 season, and BJ Upton through 2017, so the outfield is set for the next few seasons barring injury. And they added some needed power to the line up.

looking at it further....They didnt even give up Julio Tehran or J.R Graham...who i think will be even better than Delgado.

Yeah I am impressed by Wren. He loaded up a full squad with tons of youth and some of the youth are already vets. Looks like the Nats are going to have some big competition on their hands.

Originally Posted by CaseyRyback Angelos wont give him the money.

Angelos stopped meddling when he hired McPhail. DD and Buck (and Peter's son Louis) run the team now. Hell, Peter barely even attends the games anymore. The only players who have even met the guy are Brian Roberts and Nick Markakis (and maybe Adam Jones).

Not to mention, spending money has never been a problem for Peter. It is just that it wasn't spent wisely (see: Albert Belle, Tejada, that year they spent $50 million on the bullpen only for all of them but Chad Bradford and Jamie Walker to fail horribly).

Originally Posted by DNukem170 Angelos stopped meddling when he hired McPhail. DD and Buck (and Peter's son Louis) run the team now. Hell, Peter barely even attends the games anymore. The only players who have even met the guy are Brian Roberts and Nick Markakis (and maybe Adam Jones). Not to mention, spending money has never been a problem for Peter. It is just that it wasn't spent wisely (see: Albert Belle, Tejada, that year they spent $50 million on the bullpen only for all of them but Chad Bradford and Jamie Walker to fail horribly).

Just maintaining their current lineup puts them close to 100 million after arbitration. Thats a gpod amount of money for a team that had trouble drawing for a lot of the season.

Also bad day for baseball with all the PED stuff coming out. If A-Rod was still on roids they need to void his contract.

I don't really care who used PEDs or not. As long as no Orioles are on the list and get suspended, I am good.

I think the Orioles will draw a lot better this year, given their success last year. I think there's a feeling of hope that had been gone for so long.

Originally Posted by crunchewy I think the Orioles will draw a lot better this year, given their success last year. I think there's a feeling of hope that had been gone for so long.

While they will draw better, the lack of splash in the offseason dampers some of the enthusiasm and they will need to get off to a fast start to keep the good will. I still don't see non-big draws (i.e. anybody but the Yankees, Red Sox, and most NL teams) attendance more than 20-24k though.

The biggest challenge for the O's is Baltimore is a fairly small and poor city/metro area. And once the Nats moved in that split the market and gave the DC metro crowd less reason to make the trek up I-95. Especially now that the Nats are good as well.

Originally Posted by CaseyRyback Just maintaining their current lineup puts them close to 100 million after arbitration. Thats a gpod amount of money for a team that had trouble drawing for a lot of the season. Also bad day for baseball with all the PED stuff coming out. If A-Rod was still on roids they need to void his contract.

If A-Rod really gets busted for it twice in his career, the league needs to just bury him. I say this as a Yankees fan. If he's that much of a selfish prick and has no respect for the game, then make him a scapegoat and throw his ass under the bus. If MLB can save any face at all by punishing these players and taking away as much of what they've cheated to gain as they can, then so be it. I don't know how you could honor A-Rod's contract after this. He might as well be stealing the money.

Originally Posted by n8rockerasu If A-Rod really gets busted for it twice in his career, the league needs to just bury him. I say this as a Yankees fan. If he's that much of a selfish prick and has no respect for the game, then make him a scapegoat and throw his ass under the bus. If MLB can save any face at all by punishing these players and taking away as much of what they've cheated to gain as they can, then so be it. I don't know how you could honor A-Rod's contract after this. He might as well be stealing the money.

Unfortunately PED penalties have been collectively bargained for, the only thing MLB can do is suspend him 50 games.

Hopefully he plays zero games this year so the insurance policy kicks in, then they can offer him 75 cents on the dollar of the rest of his contract and buy him out.

Yankee ownership only has theirselves to blame, they went over Cashman's head when he said he wouldn't sign Arod if he opted out. Not to mention no other team would have given him $300 million.

Originally Posted by DestroVega Unfortunately PED penalties have been collectively bargained for, the only thing MLB can do is suspend him 50 games. Hopefully he plays zero games this year so the insurance policy kicks in, then they can offer him 75 cents on the dollar of the rest of his contract and buy him out. Yankee ownership only has theirselves to blame, they went over Cashman's head when he said he wouldn't sign Arod if he opted out. Not to mention no other team would have given him $300 million.

Maybe so, but if this turns into a giant drug ring "BALCO" situation like they're speculating, I wouldn't be surprised if the government got involved. All I'm saying is that whatever heat A-Rod gets from this, MLB (and the Yankees) need to just let him take it. No defending him or coddling him or whatever. I wouldn't even blame them if they wanted to make him look worse and accuse him of trying to ruin the game. Whatever negative press they want to deflect away from themselves and put on Alex, I'm all for.

How many huge mistakes does this guy need to make? He's got to be the most colossal up in baseball history. Cheating once, ok, you could say you got caught up in it, made a bad decision, etc. Nobody's perfect...and as Andy Pettitte has proven, if you're humble about it, people are willing to forgive. But when you get busted multiple times, you've got to just be a scumbag, no? I keep thinking of Pete Rose every time I hear about this crap and the absolute media thrashing he has taken for decades. Trying to cheat multiple times has to be worse than just betting on your games doesn't it? I just feel like nobody should be in A-Rod's corner on this one. The Yankees, MLB, Derek Jeter, etc. need to just step back and let him go down on this one.

As an Orioles fan, I would like him to be in the lineup at all times, especially if he swings like he did last September and October.

The PED thing is ridiculous. At this point, who is clean? Seems like all the Dominican players that are prominent are juicing. I really hope Pujols and Cabrera don't get caught up in this non-sense but it's hard to give benefit of the doubt at this point to anyone (I know Miguel is Venezuelan). Ryan Braun is guilty. Jose Bautista? Really seems fishy. It's just sad.

The players associate needs to get its head out of its ass and the penalties need to be upped. If MLB and the PA want to show that they actually care about guys juicing.
1st penalty: 1 full season (162 games + playoffs for the current year)
2nd penalty: banned for life. Guys won't f*ck with PED's then unless they are really desperate.


n8 Pettitte is still a huge liar in my book. I haven't forgiven him Pettitte and Clemens are both liars. Pettitte only confessed because he got caught with his pants down and he doesn't have the ego that Clemens does.


So what does everyone think about these three guys in light of everything: Griffey Jr, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome. Juicers or not?

Originally Posted by n8rockerasu Maybe so, but if this turns into a giant drug ring "BALCO" situation like they're speculating, I wouldn't be surprised if the government got involved. All I'm saying is that whatever heat A-Rod gets from this, MLB (and the Yankees) need to just let him take it. No defending him or coddling him or whatever. I wouldn't even blame them if they wanted to make him look worse and accuse him of trying to ruin the game. Whatever negative press they want to deflect away from themselves and put on Alex, I'm all for. How many huge mistakes does this guy need to make? He's got to be the most colossal up in baseball history. Cheating once, ok, you could say you got caught up in it, made a bad decision, etc. Nobody's perfect...and as Andy Pettitte has proven, if you're humble about it, people are willing to forgive. But when you get busted multiple times, you've got to just be a scumbag, no? I keep thinking of Pete Rose every time I hear about this crap and the absolute media thrashing he has taken for decades. Trying to cheat multiple times has to be worse than just betting on your games doesn't it? I just feel like nobody should be in A-Rod's corner on this one. The Yankees, MLB, Derek Jeter, etc. need to just step back and let him go down on this one.

Agree with all this, just don't think there's any way to void his deal.

Originally Posted by slickkill77 n8 Pettitte is still a huge liar in my book. I haven't forgiven him Pettitte and Clemens are both liars. Pettitte only confessed because he got caught with his pants down and he doesn't have the ego that Clemens does. So what does everyone think about these three guys in light of everything: Griffey Jr, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome. Juicers or not?

How many people confess without getting caught? lol. That's kind of a silly measuring stick. I think you at least have to give Pettitte credit for taking his medicine like a man. He didn't get all defiant, puff out his chest, and tell everyone they were making things up. He apologized, he did it in a sincere way, and he moved on. He didn't drag his team or his teammates through the mud and continue to make a spectacle of the entire thing. I almost think it makes it easier to forget that Pettitte got busted because it didn't drag on for months/years like it did with several other players.

I'm not saying this makes him better or less guilty...but he handled it the right way. Of course, not using in the first place would have been the better choice. But like I said, I'm willing to give guys a break one time. Would it really be surprising to anyone if Clemens influenced Pettitte to use? Again, that's not an excuse. But you can see how the mistake could be made. But for guys who defiantly deny everything or get caught multiple times...what's the excuse?

As for Griffey, Thomas, and Thome, who knows. Considering the history with injury they all had, I'd like to say no (especially Griffey), but I doubt it. Even if it wasn't exactly steroids, it could have been something else. Sometimes it's crazy looking at the power numbers guys used to put up and where they've fallen to now. For a while, 40 home runs was barely enough to get you in the top 10. Now, it leads the league. It's kinda hard to just explain that away.

Originally Posted by DestroVega Agree with all this, just don't think there's any way to void his deal.

Maybe. But both the league and the Yankees can make things incredibly uncomfortable for him. Not sure if it would be worth it, but making an example out of him in some way might help discourage this kind of crap in the future. The only other thing I can think of is hiring Joe Pesci to whack him, lol.

They could essentially force A-Rod into retirement since the contract is insured from injury. I just think the players association is going to make it hell on the Yankees to get it voided. Not that I mind.

I honestly want to believe that Griffey, Thomas and Thome are clean only because they never changed size during their career. I believe Griffey was one of those game changing talents, just as Rodriguez and Bonds were, but Griffey did not use roids. But at the same time it is hard to believe anyone at this point and it's depressing.

Yeah, it's just tough because I feel like there's only a few ways this situation could go. A-Rod was already on extremely rocky conditions with Joe Girardi (and who knows who else in that front office). Part of me thinks the "He could miss the entire year" thing from Cashman was just to give both sides time to cool off and clear their heads. It's already been questioned why the team had him wait until January to have surgery on his hip. With the way last year ended, it just starts to look like that they don't think he can contribute anything anymore and don't really want him to play.

But now with new PED allegations, you really have to wonder what he'd be coming back to. This just feels like a relationship where the writing is on the wall. He basically has no place with the Yankees anymore, but the only way (seemingly) to get rid of his is to eat 90% of his contract and give him away. I still like my Joe Pesci idea, haha.