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Originally Posted by dohdough Perhaps throwing in "conspiratorial" threw you off. I'm not saying there was a protracted private conversation with Zimmerman to concoct a story, but that there were probably a string of inconsequential things exchanged before and after he was put in cuffs that could've tainted Zimmerman's account. Just as the state DA's decision to torpedo the case wasn't conspiratorial, but merely another event that adds up to giving Zimmerman a pass.

I believe he was quickly removed from the scene so that really could not happen, again that would have been standard procedure. I don't have the actual time frame, but I definitely recall reading that they got him out of there very quickly. He would not have had much time to analyze the situation and formulate a story to fit the evidence. We don't know what his statements were at this point and how/if they changed. I am surprised he apparently didn't exercise his right to remain silent or get an attorney. Considering he has a magistrate for a father, i would think he would be well aware of how perilous it can be to say anything. He also contacted the special prosecutor on his own. This seems like a guy who really wants to tell his story. I will be very interested to see how consistent it has been.

Edit: here is the relevant part of the police report-

Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state “I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department.

There is no evidence to contradict that this is how Zimmerman was actually handled. There were many people on the scene at this time, including non police. If the police report is inaccurate it could be easily disputed by the people on the scene. But, until such credible claims are made you are just widely speculating.

Tut tut tut...You went through the trouble of wrangling all those posts but didn't bother to put them in context or describe my alleged shifting of goal posts. You even went through the mild effort of taking the first quote out of context and cut it in half.

Here is a more accurate analysis:

- Post #1(which you so lovingly cut in half), I provide examples of when the protection shifts from Zimmerman to Martin and vice versa starting from the beginning when Zimmerman follows Martin as a reply to Soodmeg.

- Post #2, you remove Zimmerman's initial actions of following Martin by car and then by foot.

- Post #3, I mention that there's a chain of causality, which you've ignored repeatedly.

- Post #4 and #5, Knoell jumps in the same bandwagon as you and says that following someone isn't illegal.

- Post #6, I attempt to bring context back to the case and add that Zimmerman, as an adult, was following a minor, Martin because that adds more context to the chain of events and how we should be analyzing it.

- Post #7, you make a thinly veiled snide remark about me not understanding what I posted, then edited in the remainder of the post that consists of, I assume, the SYG statute, your interpretation of it, and finally your admittance that you are taking the scenario out of the context of the case to apply your own analysis of it.

- Post #8, I called you out on taking it out of context, called you out on trolling, called out your edit, called you an asshole(the first time I called you a name), and addressed how your scenario still can't apply because Martin attacking Zimmerman with his fists, muchless throwing the first punch, doesn't come close to Zimmerman matching someone's spaghetti armed fists with a 9 unless Martin was the Hulk.

- Post #9, more snide remarks from you and you accuse me of not dealing in reality, which I find humorous because I consistently try to keep the conversation relevant to the case.

- Post #10, I post something from the Florida state CCW page as a WTF moment

- Post #11, you accuse me of moving the goalposts and go on to completely mischaracterize our entire exchange while whining about throwing out different scenarios to suit my ideological whims.

- Post #12, I summarize the 11 bullet points above.

And now we come to post #849 in this thread. Ah yes...the denouement. This is the post where you rapid fire a bunch of posts thinking that you've made a coherent case highlighting my flip-flopping, which you so arrogantly do without commentary as if it were the gospel truth.

You accuse me of trolling you since day one; I didn't. You accuse me of posting argumentative and contrarian nonsense in every thread; I don't. You accuse me of thinking I'm special on this sub-forum; if you consider knowledge special, then I suppose I do when it comes to matters of a race just as nasum when it comes to finance, or dmaul when it comes to the study of criminology. Both have demonstrated more than a lay-persons understanding and I've learned things from them.

You then proceed to "dissect" my posts, but you only post a link that doesn't really help your case. If anything, nasum attempted to be very civil in the OP, and I think he was civil, but it was really a symptom of other things going on.

A couple posts later and you say that it was a threat of what happens to people that oppose me. LOLZ at that. EL OH EL ZEE. If there's one thing that we lefties on this sub-forum don't do, it's report posts. We take all the childish behavior, all the fallacies, all the ignorance, all the plain stupidity, and we address them, analyze them, break them down, and show you what they're made of. Those trolls that disappeared left of their own volition because they couldn't take the heat. One was banned for being a banned member's alt and it wasn't reported by me as I had no idea. I don't have any special mod privileges, don't approve of bans, and have actually spoken out against them because they're a form of censorship. But hey, this is all stuff you'd know if you were in vs. long enough, but who cares right? Because I'm the special one here.

Now that we've had another derail here, I'm glad you got a little more of that attention you crave.

Originally Posted by caltab I believe he was quickly removed from the scene so that really could not happen, again that would have been standard procedure. I don't have the actual time frame, but I definitely recall reading that they got him out of there very quickly. He would not have had much time to analyze the situation and formulate a story to fit the evidence. We don't know what his statements were at this point and how/if they changed. I am surprised he apparently didn't exercise his right to remain silent or get an attorney. Considering he has a magistrate for a father, i would think he would be well aware of how perilous it can be to say anything. He also contacted the special prosecutor on his own. This seems like a guy who really wants to tell his story. I will be very interested to see how consistent it has been.

Now that you mention it, I'm pretty damn surprised too. It's not like he was under arrest so he could've literally(not really) waltzed outta there and just gotten a lawyer. You have to admit that calling the special prosecutor, Hannity, and the website was pretty dumb though. Those were fairly recent so the stress is probably getting to him. Then you have his father on Fox, his "Black Friend," doing all those interviews, and then his first alleged lawyers doing their thing.

I'm interested in how this will all play out as well. I still think he's going to walk no matter what.

Edit: here is the relevant part of the police report- Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD. While the SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state “I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.” At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place. Once Zimmerman was cleared by the SFD, he was transported to the Sanford Police Department. There is no evidence to contradict that this is how Zimmerman was actually handled. There were many people on the scene at this time, including non police. If the police report is inaccurate it could be easily disputed by the people on the scene. But, until such credible claims are made your just widely speculating.

Well, this is from witness statements made within the first two weeks of the incident. Considering the mess the case has been since the beginning, I don't think it's that farfetched to be suspect of how the case was mishandled from the top to the bottom and beyond. Speculation it may be, but it's not unwarranted. This is just one huge cluster.

Originally Posted by dohdough Well, this is from witness statements made within the first two weeks of the incident. Considering the mess the case has been since the beginning, I don't think it's that farfetched to be suspect of how the case was mishandled from the top to the bottom and beyond. Speculation it may be, but it's not unwarranted. This is just one huge cluster.

I believe you are referring the the interview given to the media by the mother of a witness who is a child. She said something like the police pressured her son. I am not well versed in the exact way a cop is supposed to question a child, but it would not be surprising if they asked somewhat leading questions. It is much harder for a child to state all the relevant facts on their own. I know that lawyers are given more leeway to ask leading questions to kids, so I would assume cops probably have a similar ability. If the nature of the questioning is too suggestive, that will all be on record and can certainly be pointed out by the attorney at trial.

Originally Posted by dohdough Look, motherer. I think it's cute that you're trolling me to get attention and shit up all the threads, but there's a reason why those other trolls aren't posting in vs. anymore. Just sayin...

Actually some of us(i.e. me) stopped posting because you and other users like you have your minds set on what you feel is right, what happened(even though NONE OF US WERE THERE) and what type of punishment Zimmerman should face at the end of whatever mockery of a trial he gets.

Admit it. He will NEVER be able to get a fair trial anywhere in the U.S. unless the people picked for the jury have been living under a rock for the last how many ever months this situation has been plastered all over the news.

Just admit that much and then you can go back to playing the race card thing and continue your railroading of Zimmerman as he's already guilty in your minds.

Btw, did you use notepad to type your post or something? LOLZ

When you hit reply, you'll see all sorts of formatting tools available for that reply you're about to make. One of them allows you to change the font and so on.

Originally Posted by dohdough Look, motherer. I think it's cute that you're trolling me to get attention and shit up all the threads, but there's a reason why those other trolls aren't posting in vs. anymore. Just sayin...

If all those other people are "trolls", then, don't you think getting you all riled up and in a tizzy would actually give them exactly what they wanted?

Instead, you managed to drive them away... which seems to imply they weren't trolling much... instead, you were so hostile that you just drove them off. Congrats.

Originally Posted by IAmTheCheapestGamer Actually some of us(i.e. me) stopped posting because you and other users like you have your minds set on what you feel is right, what happened(even though NONE OF US WERE THERE) and what type of punishment Zimmerman should face at the end of whatever mockery of a trial he gets.

Honestly, I'm glad that you guys stopped shitting up threads with questions that have already been answered many times over due to your lack of familiarity with the case. Like Paul Begala said to Meghan McCain, "I wasn't born during the French Revolution but I know about it" and you've admitted that you don't even follow the case, so is it any wonder why people are going to call you out on being ignorant about it? If there wasn't any outcry, there wouldn't have been a trial to begin with. You can keep ignoring the fact that the case was torpedoed all you want, but it won't make it true except in your own mind.

Hell, I can't even think of anyone that proposed any type of punishment beyond imprisonment and you act as if people in this thread are screaming for his head on a pike. I, myself, stated many times that manslaughter is probably the most appropriate charge. This guy is getting charged with 2nd degree murder with permission for the jury to downgrade to manslaughter and possibly less. You act as if he's getting charged 1st degree with remand.

Admit it. He will NEVER be able to get a fair trial anywhere in the U.S. unless the people picked for the jury have been living under a rock for the last how many ever months this situation has been plastered all over the news.

What makes you think he would've gotten a trial to begin with? And even then, what makes you think it'd be fair or that he would be treated fairly? Or maybe you should define fair because when someone kills a black person, they get less severe punishment than killing a white person. If you're talking about an impartial jury, that doesn't exist except in a thought experiment. We all take our biases with us and don't check them at the door by simple force of will alone. Or maybe you should define "fair."

Just admit that much and then you can go back to playing the race card thing and continue your railroading of Zimmerman as he's already guilty in your minds.

Admit what? That he won't get a fair trial? I've already said as much, but you don't really mean fair as in just; you mean fair as in non-prejudicial. Btw, dismissing race is playing the race card too.

When you hit reply, you'll see all sorts of formatting tools available for that reply you're about to make. One of them allows you to change the font and so on.

Which is all well and good, but if he's going to rant like a loon, he should at least try to make it uniform with the rest of the posts to make it easier to read...then again, he wouldn't be a loon if he did so...

edit:

Originally Posted by UncleBob If all those other people are "trolls", then, don't you think getting you all riled up and in a tizzy would actually give them exactly what they wanted?

Who knows why trolls troll except the trolls themselves.

Instead, you managed to drive them away... which seems to imply they weren't trolling much... instead, you were so hostile that you just drove them off. Congrats.

Those trolls were lights that burned bright, but alas, were not destined to last.

Poor aliterations and rhymes aside, if someone is going to post an opinion on a politics sub-forum, informed or not, they're going to be open to critiques. I'm no more immune from that than anyone else that posts here. I get ganged up on all the time because I'm the most vocal, but I don't pack up and leave the second things get hot. Hell, if I'm wrong, I'll even apologize as I've done on more than one occassion.

You wanna call me out for being rough? Go ahead, I admit it. But don't act all high and mighty with me when you play just as rough. Have you reported any of our latest troll's posts? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by dohdough Honestly, I'm glad that you guys stopped shitting up threads with questions that have already been answered many times over due to your lack of familiarity with the case. Like Paul Begala said to Meghan McCain, "I wasn't born during the French Revolution but I know about it" and you've admitted that you don't even follow the case, so is it any wonder why people are going to call you out on being ignorant about it? If there wasn't any outcry, there wouldn't have been a trial to begin with. You can keep ignoring the fact that the case was torpedoed all you want, but it won't make it true except in your own mind. Hell, I can't even think of anyone that proposed any type of punishment beyond imprisonment and you act as if people in this thread are screaming for his head on a pike. I, myself, stated many times that manslaughter is probably the most appropriate charge. This guy is getting charged with 2nd degree murder with permission for the jury to downgrade to manslaughter and possibly less. You act as if he's getting charged 1st degree with remand. What makes you think he would've gotten a trial to begin with? And even then, what makes you think it'd be fair or that he would be treated fairly? Or maybe you should define fair because when someone kills a black person, they get less severe punishment than killing a white person. If you're talking about an impartial jury, that doesn't exist except in a thought experiment. We all take our biases with us and don't check them at the door by simple force of will alone. Or maybe you should define "fair." Admit what? That he won't get a fair trial? I've already said as much, but you don't really mean fair as in just; you mean fair as in non-prejudicial. Btw, dismissing race is playing the race card too. Which is all well and good, but if he's going to rant like a loon, he should at least try to make it uniform with the rest of the posts to make it easier to read...then again, he wouldn't be a loon if he did so...

I don't have a problem with any of Dohdough's posts. I've stopped posting because I find myself antagonizing and arguing rather then having a civil discussion.

While I respect your opinions and appreciate your POV talking about issues of race with you is like talking to a formerly abused female turned woman care activist about men or a religous nut about the presence of dinosaurs.


I would have to believe it's more then just research and studies that have formed your opinions re: race and if that's the case and it is personal experience as well noone here is going to be able to change your mind.

I slowed down posting in this thread because the only people here with "concerns" are the dregs who are upset that someone can shoot an unarmed black person and then have to suffer a few inconveniences.

Originally Posted by Msut77 I slowed down posting in this thread because the only people here with "concerns" are the dregs who are upset that someone can shoot an unarmed black person and then have to suffer a few inconveniences.

I haven't read a few of the posts on here, but what inconveniences are people complaining about?

Zimmerman must have taken notes

http://news.yahoo.com/md-neighborhoo...140920015.html

Remember when neighborhood watch meant just that to WATCH and let the police handle "suspicious" matters

Inb4 herp derp they were defending themselves and were not profiling someone.

Originally Posted by renique46 Zimmerman must have taken notes http://news.yahoo.com/md-neighborhoo...140920015.html Remember when neighborhood watch meant just that to WATCH and let the police handle "suspicious" matters Inb4 herp derp they were defending themselves and were not profiling someone.

It is the new hotness, like planking a while back.

http://www.ajc.com/news/couple-held-...t-1423138.html

Originally Posted by Msut77 It is the new hotness, like planking a while back. http://www.ajc.com/news/couple-held-...t-1423138.html

Well if today is about posting stories that aren't relevant I'll throw this into the ring:

http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=99812

50 year-old White man on life support after hammer attack by two black teens (18 and 19) near Sanford, FL

^ I wonder if Obama had a son if he'd look like either of these two?


Please note they are from Sanford, FL as well.

lol @ that stormfront light site. I'm glad you don't hide what you really are

Originally Posted by renique46 lol @ that stormfront light site. I'm glad you don't hide what you really are

Did the attack not happen? Is the article fake?

Nice response

Originally Posted by GBAstar Did the attack not happen? Is the article fake? Nice response

Get a new hobby.

Originally Posted by GBAstar Well if today is about posting stories that aren't relevant I'll throw this into the ring: http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=99812 50 year-old White man on life support after hammer attack by two black teens (18 and 19) near Sanford, FL ^ I wonder if Obama had a son if he'd look like either of these two? Please note they are from Sanford, FL as well.

Irrelevant, really? Sigh, I wonder if there is a limit to how many people one can put on ignore.

I thought the conclusion was earlier that other similar stories don't count? Oh....wait they count if the victim is of a certain color?...I really shouldn't be surprised.

Originally Posted by Knoell I thought the conclusion was earlier that other similar stories don't count? Oh....wait they count if the victim is of a certain color?...I really shouldn't be surprised.

It's alright. Stormfront has been used as a scareword to try and discredit any article posted that isn't anti zimmerman yet not a single article posted in this thread has been pulled from stormfront.

Two black men from Sanford, FL beating a 50 year old white man senseless with a hammer is no more or less relevant then two white men beating a black teenager in Maryland.

You can't discredit something because you don't like the message it sends.

And putting someone on ignore that has never personally insulted you is about as childish as it gets. We're trying to have a discussion about topics of race and we've got sensitive susan's putting everyone on ignore.

The thing in common is that an attacker claimed self defense and that black people have to have references to walk somewhere or enter their own homes.