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Another case of 'do as I say, not as I do', eh? I see a lot of that around here lately..

Originally Posted by Dokstarr Also just have to add for the record that Battletoads is worth 20 bucks. That game was awesome. Rash, Zitz & Pimple for life homeslice! Back on topic I guess. Prices fluctuate due to renewed interest in older games, sequels being released, and just generally less around due to falling in collector's hands. In high school I new of only me and probably one other person who continued to collect NES, SNES, etc games. Then in college alot more people started to dig out their Nintendo 64's and Super Nintendos. Even now it is the same thing. I sold a N64 on C-list around Christmas with a bunch of games for like 100 bucks and the girl said she was giving it to her boyfriend. I don't think the plastic carts are ever going to really go down much in price (except for the rare games that get re-released every 2 years on a different system), but eventually the market will just kind of dry up. Most of the games will be in the hands of collectors and sitting there. I wonder what other people think on this. I think that PS2, Xbox, etc. will never be collectible like cart systems. Part of it I think is just that the nostalgia factor doesn't seem to be a big deal. The systems themselves are more prone to breaking and needing work. Finally people just don't seem to care about it as much. I may be wrong, but I just doubt people are going to be trying to complete their Xbox or PS2 collection is 5 or 10 years (though everyone should have Panzer Dragoon Orta and Otogi for Xbox).

PS2 will become "nostalgic" when the kids who played them grow up into their 20's and 30's and suddenly have an urge to collect things from their childhood. We aren't there yet in terms of time so I can't comment yet.

I don't think PS2's are that bad in terms of breakage, I have a phat model that I purchased from a yard sale randomly about 2 years ago that is still going and I play DVD's in it often, and ones with big stickers on them from the library to boot, which is supposed to ruin DVD drives faster. Besides, there are enough PS2 consoles out there to last for many generations. The early models were pretty bad, but I assume most of those are already dead and gone now. There are still plenty of newer PS2's out there, I don't even think sony has stopped production on them yet. The Xbox is another story, most early models will be gone, but there should be enough slim's to last some time and the console is still being produced.

Though I am not sure if the children of today will become so that they want to get things from their childhood, many are so spoiled that all they care about is getting what is new so I don't know if its going to happen en masse like it has with the kids of the 80's generation. I have to wonder if the give your children whatever they want attitude most children are subjected to these days will carry into their adulthood so all they will be focused on is the shiny new Apple gadget and they will care less about the old PS2. Almost everyone I talk to in my age group (80's generation) has at least some form of nostalgia for the toys or video games they had as a kid, its hard to find a person who doesn't.

About the NES stuff, I am surprised the market for that stuff has not declined due to the popularity of HDTV's, older systems don't look very good on HDTV's so it becomes necessary to keep an old CRT TV for playing older games on. Common sense tells me that a lot of people are gonna sell their old systems because they don't wanna keep an extra, old heavy TV around. But I guess there are enough people who haven't upgraded to HDTV yet or who are willing to keep an extra CRT TV around just for old games.

Its not just you noticing spmahn, same topic is popping up on many of the retro boards.

Some reasons listed at various places:

- 25 year, peak nostalgia time reached for items. NES 1985-1994 = 2010-2019
- Modern Gaming overall has exploded, NES has many characters/1st appearances/concepts/publishers which are basis of todays games
- Trendy to have old games, no longer niche. Mainstream acceptance
- Recession periods draw people to collectibles as investments, other collectibles are experiencing the same "phenomena"
- Increased media coverage on old games and high priced sales
- Retrogaming turning into a business/investment instead of a hobby
- Resellers and quick profit takers buying up stock
- Higher starting priced listings/sales cause others to follow suit. F
- Fixed price listings now more common than auction based listings
- Perception is turned to frenzy as people who actually collect/play retro feel like they have to have items or they will inflate more, which in turn causes more immediate bidding on items needed and higher prices
- Game grading increases cost for good condition/new items, possible tricke down effect
- Buyers paying tons of $ for sealed items, possible trickle down effect
- Possible Shill bidding on select items to maintain a specific price level
- Ebay is not the market, only a slice
- Bunch more, blah blah blah...

saw this link on another board, average loose cart price has jumped ~50% since 2k8 - http://videogames.pricecharting.com/...s?sort-by=name

Originally Posted by spmahn But people DO care about what others are doing. Generally a few popular high volume sellers set the price point by listing items at too high a price, and then others follow. Thus you end up with with a dozen listings like these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chip-N-Dale-...item231c523159 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NES-Chip-N-D...item231b4345f6 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RESCUE-RANGE...0#ht_500wt_971 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chip-N-Dale-...item256f85a643 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chip-N-Dale-...2#ht_913wt_956 http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHIP-N-DALE-...#ht_1079wt_956 for a game that is really only worth this http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHIP-N-DALE-...item35bb162d44 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chip-N-Dale-...#ht_500wt_1182 There's also plenty of shill bidding that goes on from the higher priced sellers to give the appearance that the higher price is the correct one, which is turn causes more people to follow the higher price listings as a guide when determining prices.

Jesus Christ!

First off, that is YOUR opinion of what it's worth, I certainly don't share it.

Secondly, putting a game up for $3 on eBay isn't even worth the time. After fees and shipping, you end up LOSING money.

Third off, are you seriously bitching over 10 dollars?

Fourth, you just sat there and linked auctions that showed that there are plenty of sellers that sell items cheaper.

Fifth, if you don't want it. DON'T BUY IT. If no one buys the item, then there's absolutely no repercussions of the seller listing it for that price. If someone does buy it, then the item is worth that value and there is a market for that game at that price, which completely contradicts your argument.

Sixth, and most importantly - I love how you search for a game, and find the auctions that sold for the LEAST and then claim that's the value of the game. Some people get lucky on auctions depending on what day and time the auction ends. The majority of the auctions for that game sold for ~10$. I found a copy of Super Mario RPG for the SNES for FREE. That doesn't make the value of it 0$.

End this nonsense and let this sad, little thread die.

Originally Posted by yourlefthand I just thought that this post was worth quoting here: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/...st#post8516097

so basically the long and short of it is that the free market works perfectly for spmanh when he's selling stuff. But when he's buying stuff and the price is too high, it's collusion.

That about sum it up?

Thanks for coming ladies and gentlemen, last one out of this thread turn out the light.

Which has caused me to do a lot of THIS:

Ditto!!!!

Turns the light off but plugs the night light in, I'm sure this thread isn't dead yet! lol!!!

Originally Posted by IAmTheCheapestGamer All I'm seeing in this thread is a whole bunch of this: Followed by a whole shitload of this: Which has caused me to do a lot of THIS: My opinion on it is actually the same as confoosious and mrspicytacoman. The market will bear what people are willing to pay. If they're willing to pay $20 for an old game while you're too cheap to and expect to get it for $5, then you're shit outta luck then aren't ya? Either go into it expecting to pay more than you want or be prepared to be disappointed when you don't get your way and don't get the item(s) you want for the price you only wanna pay.

But I just showed that the market is presently above what people are willing to pay, but that there aren't any controlling forces to bring the prices down to what people are willing to pay. Since Video Games aren't a commodity that people NEED, and there's really no substitute products, the only alternative is to simply not buy overpriced used games, which is what seems to occur based on seeig the same overpriced listing month after month, year after year. I have no problem paying a fair market value, I do have a problem paying well above fair market value, and I take issue with people trying to manipulate the market and determine what fair market value should be despite evidence that the market will not and does not bear their high prices.

Originally Posted by RobotSimp Its not just you noticing spmahn, same topic is popping up on many of the retro boards. Some reasons listed at various places: - 25 year, peak nostalgia time reached for items. NES 1985-1994 = 2010-2019 - Modern Gaming overall has exploded, NES has many characters/1st appearances/concepts/publishers which are basis of todays games - Trendy to have old games, no longer niche. Mainstream acceptance - Recession periods draw people to collectibles as investments, other collectibles are experiencing the same "phenomena" - Increased media coverage on old games and high priced sales - Retrogaming turning into a business/investment instead of a hobby - Resellers and quick profit takers buying up stock - Higher starting priced listings/sales cause others to follow suit. F - Fixed price listings now more common than auction based listings - Perception is turned to frenzy as people who actually collect/play retro feel like they have to have items or they will inflate more, which in turn causes more immediate bidding on items needed and higher prices - Game grading increases cost for good condition/new items, possible tricke down effect - Buyers paying tons of $ for sealed items, possible trickle down effect - Possible Shill bidding on select items to maintain a specific price level - Ebay is not the market, only a slice - Bunch more, blah blah blah... saw this link on another board, average loose cart price has jumped ~50% since 2k8 - http://videogames.pricecharting.com/...s?sort-by=name

Thank you sir, you get it. Thank you for answering my question.

Originally Posted by spmahn But I just showed that the market is presently above what people are willing to pay, but that there aren't any controlling forces to bring the prices down to what people are willing to pay. Since Video Games aren't a commodity that people NEED, and there's really no substitute products, the only alternative is to simply not buy overpriced used games, which is what seems to occur based on seeig the same overpriced listing month after month, year after year. I have no problem paying a fair market value, I do have a problem paying well above fair market value, and I take issue with people trying to manipulate the market and determine what fair market value should be despite evidence that the market will not and does not bear their high prices.

The controlling force is the market itself. If you can't see that, then there's no helping you. Do you seriously not understand how a free market works?

You've made me dumber for listening to this crap.

edit: I'm being trolled right?

Originally Posted by confoosious The controlling force is the market itself. If you can't see that, then there's no helping you. Do you seriously not understand how a free market works? You've made me dumber for listening to this crap. edit: I'm being trolled right?

But when the market prices itself above what people at willing to pay, then there is no market. In a perfect free market, someone would come along and undercut the higher prices, causing other to follow suit and lead prices towards equilibrium, but since resources are scarce, there isn't anyone out there willing to do that, thus prices stay high, and the market for whatever is being sold is effectively zero since it's not being sold at a price people are willing to pay.

I tried to explain it to you like 8 times but you refuse to understand. Linking a bunch of ebay auctions doesn't change the fact that ebay is a free market.

You don't know what a market is and apparently it's not within my abilities to explain it to you. So let someone else take up the cause.

Originally Posted by confoosious I tried to explain it to you like 8 times but you refuse to understand. Linking a bunch of ebay auctions doesn't change the fact that ebay is a free market. You don't know what a market is and apparently it's not within with abilities to explain it to you. So let someone else take up the cause.

Except in this case it's not really a free market, it's an oligopoly.

Oh really? An oligopoly. Sure.

Originally Posted by kermit036 Also another thought for conversation: world market vs local market. IE your neighborhood may have been a Genesis town but in my state we build houses out of SNES's.

I live in a genesis town. It iritates the hell out of me. I find 10 genesis carts for every one SNES cart. (oddly I never find genesis consoles)

yea i got tired of reading threw this thread somewhere in page 2. lol.

i dont really understand why this thread has gotten his long, if it's too much for you dont buy it, and considering you want it that means there is a market but apparently ur just too cheap to buy it, do you not understand people want to make as much money as possible from their product, what is so hard to understand? it is so hard to understand that as time passes by older shit gets more expensive? it might have been cheap back then (in which case you should have bought it at that time) but now the sellers have determined these are more valuable for whatever there reasons and it's there CHOICE to charge whatever the hell they want

eBay is not a true market... that's the problem. People treat it as such, but it is just a forum. Maybe a marketplace, but not a market.

But just as BIN prices are not an indication of value, neither are eBay auctions because they run in a finite window, where luck plays a role in who sees what items when, and also the artificial ending point where snipers can distort the market.

There is collusion in the eBay market place, but it is not illegal collusion because no one is forcing everyone to go along. I actually had a game I was willing to sell for $50, but saw that everyone else had theirs priced at $100... I put mine up at $90 and sold it within a week.

EDIT: Also, one transaction (regardless of price) does not create a market price for something.

And by listing it at $90, you've proven the invisible hand of the market is at play.

You acted in your own self interest (selling it by undercutting others) and it moved the market.

Please explain how eBay does not conform to market principles. An auction is not a market? What the?

Whoever said people are idiots had the correct answer.

Just look at all the dumbass Craigslist postings that think their NES-001 is worth $150.

Originally Posted by confoosious And by listing it at $90, you've proven the invisible hand of the market is at play. You acted in your own self interest (selling it by undercutting others) and it moved the market. Please explain how eBay does not conform to market principles. An auction is not a market? What the?

But his game sold, proving that the market was willing to bear a $90 price tag for his game. This is in opposition to probably two dozen or more listings at $120 or higher for the same game that won't actually ever sell at that price proving that the market is not willing to bear the higher price. In a fair market with perfect competition, more people would list the item at the $90 price undercutting the higher priced sellers, ultimately leading to market equilibrium. In reality however, this does not happen because the used game market is not a perfectly competitive one, and sellers are unwilling to act rationally. The guy who sold his for $90 is the exception, not the rule, and not evidence of any invisible hand, since it's not doing anything at all to change the overall market conditions.

Please just read up on free markets. This is silly.