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Originally Posted by Eldredpe All publicly available material before the release of a game has been carefully rolled out by a PR team and IS advertising. No way around it. Why would the source matter?

1. NeoGAF (whether you believe so or not) is actually a pretty well known and influential forum in the realm of the video game industry. Letting publishers give their support to a forum (especially NeoGAF of all forums) to basically promote their game through "homegrown" OTs is basically saying to publishers that you are welcome to advertise your game here with no repercussions which leads me to:

2. This was straight from Evilore's mouth in the issue:

We have a zero tolerance policy for PR agents who act inappropriately. They have their interests (promoting their company's product), we have ours (maintaining NeoGAF's integrity and neutrality). Those can be compatible at times, and at times not. Asking a question that attempts to undermine our goals by way of issuing a public statement in thread form promoting the concept of PR perks for posters is going to hit that zero tolerance, while sending me a PM asking about it would have resulted in the gesture being declined but no ban being issued. That's simple enough.

Now granted, while I think his interpretation was harsh on Tony, the rules still stand.

Originally Posted by nategator I just reported you for talking about NeoGaf when you were explicitly told not to by Tony. PREPARE FOR YOUR BAN CHEAPLIKEAFOX!!!!!!!! /sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious. In all seriousness, I think we're all getting pumped about this dev idea, Tony. Any chance in putting out feelers to Irrational or is this more a smaller developer initiative? Either way, cool with me.

Definitely not just smaller developers and we're already talking to them about what kinds of community stuff we can do. Everyone was super jazzed with how the livestreaming and Q&A for XCOM went, the reason I mentioned Forge and Hawken is because we're hoping to kick stuff of with them really soon (like weeks) whereas anything will Irrational would be further out.

Cheers,
Tony

Originally Posted by Eldredpe All publicly available material before the release of a game has been carefully rolled out by a PR team and IS advertising. No way around it. Why would the source matter?

Because it's not PR. It's not marketing. OT's are there to serve the purpose of GAF and its members to discuss the qualities of a game. The OTs act as a catalyst for discussion and portal to get information in one spot. Nothing more.

Tony was a nice guy but anything he is suggesting would be unique. There are several outlets to get the exact same things; again, GAF is an enthusiast community. Maybe it wouldn't come with strings attached, though with middle-men/money involved it's only inevitable things get messy. Bringing in more suits to something that many of us enjoy doing because a game looks exciting to us will just complicate and dilute the process.

Originally Posted by nategator Any chance in putting out feelers to Irrational or is this more a smaller developer initiative? Either way, cool with me.

Basically, what I'm asking is can you get me a lunch meeting with Ken Levine.

Originally Posted by Renewman 1. NeoGAF (whether you believe so or not) is actually a pretty well known and influential forum in the realm of the video game industry. Letting publishers give their support to a forum (especially NeoGAF of all forums) to basically promote their game through "homegrown" OTs is basically saying to publishers that you are welcome to advertise your game here with no repercussions which leads me to:

Didn't the Sequence dev give out several thousand copies of his game via a NeoGAF thread a year ago?

God, I hope he didn't include any screenshots.

Originally Posted by donatelli Because it's not PR. It's not marketing. OT's are there to serve the purpose of GAF and its members to discuss the qualities of a game. The OTs act as a catalyst for discussion and portal to get information in one spot. Nothing more.

But ANY material that has surfaced at all with which to fuel that discussion is part of the game's marketing. It isn't like you can walk outside, stroll down the road, go digging in a field and find out that Borderlands 2 has new classes. Every single bit of information that's let out and that's focused on in any thread pertaining to pre-release is a result of and a process of a game's marketing. You can attempt to hide from that, but what gives a discussion integrity isn't the materials used to fuel the discussion but how they're viewed and the angles at which they're advanced upon. If you're going to use second-hand marketing material as a basis for discussion and pretend everything you know about an upcoming game came to you in a vision for the sake of integrity, that's fine, but I don't see the problem with getting the same level of marketing in a higher quality, realizing where the materials came from and approaching them in your discussions with a grain of salt. That's how everybody else parses information everywhere else in the world.

I didn't mean to get into an argument with my comment, but if people are trying to escape third-parties and marketing with these kinds of policies, they really aren't. They're just telling themselves they are so they can sleep better at night.

Originally Posted by CheapLikeAFox I was just packing my bags until I got to that last part

Every time I try sarcasm someone takes me seriously so I have to tread cautiously.

Like I said, I won't last 2 days on some forums, like [REDACTED].

Originally Posted by Amazon DVG Deals Definitely not just smaller developers and we're already talking to them about what kinds of community stuff we can do. Everyone was super jazzed with how the livestreaming and Q&A for XCOM went, the reason I mentioned Forge and Hawken is because we're hoping to kick stuff of with them really soon (like weeks) whereas anything will Irrational would be further out. Cheers, Tony

Just caught this quote. Awesomesauce.

Originally Posted by Eldredpe Didn't the Sequence dev give out several thousand copies of his game via a NeoGAF thread a year ago? God, I hope he didn't include any screenshots.

Your sarcasm fails you. Feep (the person you are referring to) was already a well known member of the NeoGAF community before he even made the game with his team of buddies. He gave out copies of Sequence as a gift to the forum who helped push him to achieve his goal.

Nice try though.

How about we talk about the awesome Dark Souls, Dead Space, and Walking Dead deals?

Originally Posted by Genocidal How about we talk about the awesome Dark Souls, Dead Space, and Walking Dead deals?

I already have DS1 + 2 and TWD. Dark Souls doesn't look like my type of game. I had a hard enough time with Quest 64.

And I will just put this out there, the PC section of CAG can be sort of dead sometimes, but if Tony can hook up some screenshots, trailers, info on up and coming pre orders I would be more than happy to get some OTs started around here to try to jump start the discussion on games.

And since I am an individual with little e-integrity, I will happily link to Amazon's and any other retailer's pre-order promotion/link in the OP so CAGs can make informed choices on where they want to buy

Originally Posted by Genocidal How about we talk about the awesome Dark Souls, Dead Space, and Walking Dead deals?

Dark Souls for $20 goes live Sunday. I'm in there like swim wear. Also, another vote from me about having Vita downloadable titles available on Amazon. I love my Vita but $30 for a downloadable title that looks $15-20 at most? Count me out. D:<

Originally Posted by Genocidal How about we talk about the awesome Dark Souls, Dead Space, and Walking Dead deals?

Ah, crap, that reminds me. I have to see if someone beat me on the repost at Slickdeals.

Originally Posted by Eldredpe Basically, what I'm asking is can you get me a lunch meeting with Ken Levine. Didn't the Sequence dev give out several thousand copies of his game via a NeoGAF thread a year ago? God, I hope he didn't include any screenshots. But ANY material that has surfaced at all with which to fuel that discussion is part of the game's marketing. It isn't like you can walk outside, stroll down the road, go digging in a field and find out that Borderlands 2 has new classes. Every single bit of information that's let out and that's focused on in any thread pertaining to pre-release is a result of and a process of a game's marketing. You can attempt to hide from that, but what gives a discussion integrity isn't the materials used to fuel the discussion but how they're viewed and the angles at which they're advanced upon. If you're going to use second-hand marketing material as a basis for discussion and pretend everything you know about an upcoming game came to you in a vision for the sake of integrity, that's fine, but I don't see the problem with getting the same level of marketing in a higher quality, realizing where the materials came from and approaching them in your discussions with a grain of salt. That's how everybody else parses information everywhere else in the world. I didn't mean to get into an argument with my comment, but if people are trying to escape third-parties and marketing with these kinds of policies, they really aren't. They're just telling themselves they are so they can sleep better at night.

Because I (being someone who has made OT's on GAF) don't want to deal with publishers/marketing teams. It gives them the idea that they control the flow and content. It's not some secret that the material is PR in and of itself. But the act of dealing with these outside entities is what GAF wants to avoid.

Dammit xanchui! You beat me again!!

'Grats, maybe we'll end up splitting the FP is the upcoming ones for Halloween make it.

Originally Posted by Genocidal How about we talk about the awesome Dark Souls, Dead Space, and Walking Dead deals?

Is Demon's Souls still worth playing?

I got it on PS3 a long time ago because it was cheap and I knew my roommates would be into it, but never really played it much.

Should I just skip it entirely?

Originally Posted by donatelli It gives them the idea that they control the flow and content. It's not some secret that the material is PR in and of itself.

I know this discussion is getting really tiring for everybody and I'm totally done after this. I guess my only point was that they have the idea that they control the flow of the content because in most senses they do. I'd rather embrace that and ratchet up my cynicism accordingly than enact rules to feel like I'm reversing that, but GAF can do what it wants, obviously.

Originally Posted by Renewman Dark Souls for $20 goes live Sunday. I'm in there like swim wear. Also, another vote from me about having Vita downloadable titles available on Amazon. I love my Vita but $30 for a downloadable title that looks $15-20 at most? Count me out. D:<

why stop at Vita lets also include PSN games on there too, I would love it if Amazon started selling them

Aww man these deals are awesome, I'd say it sucks about the Gaf ban but like Cheapy said, more of Tony for us.

I did have the Walking Dead Collector's Edition pre-ordered but unhappy as it's unfortunately only with Gamestop but I'm gonna cancel it and give my money to Amazon.

Originally Posted by nategator Dammit xanchui! You beat me again!! 'Grats, maybe we'll end up splitting the FP is the upcoming ones for Halloween make it.

How about a preemptive strike like some people do here?

RUMOR AMAZON SALE!

"I was at Amazon yesterday and a hamster came up to me and whispered in my ear they were going to have KoA + DLC for $11.99 at some point in the future. "

Originally Posted by Genocidal How about we talk about the awesome Dark Souls, Dead Space, and Walking Dead deals?

I'm rather talk about WHATELSE might be in that Halloween Sale. :P

Yes, I'm hella- stoked for Dark Souls PDT.
Dead Space 1 and 2 - those SP Campaigns are AWESOME.
Ain't played Telltale's Walking Dead series yet.

Tony doesn't fit in at the type of site GAF is, which is a rather impartial news aggregate. They purposefully dropped the whole community style of posting years ago, which is why it may seem very swift and brutal.

Not really going to argue about the outcome one way or another, but this may just be for the best. Tony doesn't have to walk on eggshells here.

Originally Posted by Amazon DVG Deals Definitely not just smaller developers and we're already talking to them about what kinds of community stuff we can do. Everyone was super jazzed with how the livestreaming and Q&A for XCOM went, the reason I mentioned Forge and Hawken is because we're hoping to kick stuff of with them really soon (like weeks) whereas anything will Irrational would be further out. Cheers, Tony

Are you saying that you could actually GET Irrational Boston? :-X