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As much as I don't like the idea, you may be right. Though I expect it to not happen, something will probably get worked out at the last minute.

Go over the edge and don't look back imo.

Since we last chatted:

The Dems wouldn't put a number on the Medicare cuts that Republicans want so a Republican aide went ahead and leaked that they did. How helpful!

A Republican aide familiar with the offer that was presented to House Speaker John Boehner by Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and White House congressional liason Rob Nabors confirmed that the $4 trillion package would raise $1.6 trillion in tax revenue up front. [..] In exchange for the added tax revenue, Democrats would give in on $400 billion in spending cuts from entitlement programs like Medicare and an aide said those cuts would not be immediate.

Bam. There it is. Obama laid out his plan and the Republicans couldn't leak it fast enough. Side note: wasn't the knock on Obama that he didn't lay out his plans? And that he isn't getting anything done? Well, it's going to be tough for Boehner to pretend like four trillion dollars isn't substantive. He's going to have to come back with a detailed idea of what he wants and what the numbers should be if he's going to be taken seriously at this point....right? I mean, when even the CEO of Goldman Sachs says its a good plan, I mean, you're at least going to bring your own plan forward now right? At least? Or at least you'll say what you think the numbers should be near? At least? Words?

Boehner slammed that number right after the meeting at a press conference though he would not say what the number should be.

Naturally.

"Unfortunately many Democrats continue to rule out spending cuts that must be part of any significant agreement that will reduce our deficit" Boehner said.

"he would not say what the number should be"

Republican playbook:

1. Threaten to shut down government/start a debt crisis
2. Make no serious, actionable offer or plan at any point
3. Demand Democrats offer cuts that Democrats don't want
4. Leak Democratic offers to cut
5. Run against Democrats on cuts Republicans wanted
6. Threaten to shut down government/start a debt crisis

Remember kids, Obama is the problem.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114 Yeessssss! Worthless, whiny rich pieces of shit like you need to pay more taxes. No one wants to hear you whine again about how tough you have it working in a useless profession making over $200k and how that's not enough because you choose to live in expensive area, to pop out a bunch of crib midgets with your wife etc.

HOLY Dmaul, I've never seen you explode like that lmao

Originally Posted by UncleBob This reminds me of a South Park episode... Regardless, I don't feel that it "looks like we care" about our spending problem by simply increasing our income by what would be a relatively trivial amount (in comparison to our current spending levels and in comparison to the overall debt level). So, basically, the argument is that we should focus on short-term goals. I see no problem with that. I just know that someone is grinding their teeth over the misuse of debt vs. deficit... Is higher taxes the best way to finance social spending? I tend to believe that cutting spending in other areas (in particular, military/defense) would be the better way to finance it. That's not to say the entire tax situation doesn't need to be looked at, but when our government has had unchecked spending for so long, I'd prefer to see them show that they do have restraint and control (and common sense) before giving them more money.

I'd much rather profer that, but that'd get next to zero support from both Dems and Repubs.

That’s what you’re really seeing in this “proposal.” Previously, Obama’s pattern had been to offer plans that roughly tracked where he thought the compromise should end up. The White House’s belief was that by being solicitous in their policy proposals, they would win goodwill on the other side, and even if they didn’t, the media would side with them, realizing they’d sought compromise and been rebuffed. They don’t believe that anymore. Perhaps the key lesson the White House took from the last couple of years is this: Don’t negotiate with yourself. If Republicans want to cut Medicare, let them propose the cuts. If they want to raise revenue through tax reform, let them identify the deductions. If they want deeper cuts in discretionary spending, let them settle on a number.

Republicans complaining that Obama used to be the only adult in the room who would actually start from where the finish line would be. Now he won't do it anymore because the Republicans just ask for more. And if you think that's crazy, remember that Obama's last debt ceiling offer had MORE CUTS than Boehner's original demand. Boehner just kept pulling the football and running further to the right.

Obama. The do nothing president.

"The White House’s belief was that by being solicitous in their policy proposals, they would win goodwill on the other side"
lulz. dumbasses.

Originally Posted by camoor Your 'reason' makes about as much sense as Gordon Gekko's 'greed is good' speech. edit: Javery, fyi Gekko was the villian of that movie. I didn't want you to be confused.

Whatever. How many people in this thread purposely don't take deductions that they otherwise could have (not against the rules) or write bigger checks to the government every year (also not against the rules) for the "greater good"? Oh that's right, no one. I'm all for the "rich" paying higher taxes too as long as you raise the bar to a number higher than I'll ever achieve.

Originally Posted by Javery Whatever. How many people in this thread purposely don't take deductions that they otherwise could have (not against the rules) or write bigger checks to the government every year (also not against the rules) for the "greater good"? Oh that's right, no one. I'm all for the "rich" paying higher taxes too as long as you raise the bar to a number higher than I'll ever achieve.

Of course, we all care for our families more then the govt.

But don't be so bitter dude. It's like paying internet sales tax, when for so many years it's been free to trade on the net. Sure it sucks but deep down you know it's the right thing. Take it for what it was - you enjoyed a nice free ride for a long time, now you gotta suck it up and pay your fair share.

Don't be a bitter old man, you have a pretty good life compared to most Americans.

I don't deduct anything from my taxes other than my student loan interest. I don't claim charitable donations (money or stuff donated to Goodwill) as I don't give to get a tax break. I buy shit I use for work (iPad and expensive stuff like that down to office supplies) and don't bother itemizing and writing things like that off. I just put in my W2 income, any outside consulting income, deduct my student loan interest since that's already money going to the government, and that's it.

I don't really give much of a crap about money. I do ok for myself, but I could be just as happy making significantly less as all I really need is a roof over my head, money for utility bills and cell phone and Netflix as I'm not very consumerist and would rather spend time doing stuff with people than sitting around consuming things I buy, and lots of things I like to do like running, hiking etc. are free or low cost. My girlfriend and I both despise crib midgets as well, so never wanting kids saves us a ton of money in the long run as well.

Not everyone's life revolves around making as much money as possible and keeping as much of it as possible to buy shit we don't need. And I'm fully supportive of my taxes going up. Fully letting the Bush tax cuts expire is probably a bad idea as it would hurt the lower income brackets too much, especially with the economic situation still being tough. But someone like me making $70-75K can certainly afford to pay a little more. Much less when I marry my girlfriend and we're over $120k at the least. I also support online sales tax even though I do most of my shopping online. I know I could (and should) pay it now, but it's too much hassle to keep track of all my online purchases from everywhere each year. But I'd 100% vote to add online sales tax in my state if it was ever a ballot measure as I'm happy to pay it if it's just automatically added like when shopping locally. Again, not everyone is obsessed with money.

Are people down on my boi Javery in here?

Why don't you just guess the amount of things you buy online and just write in your assumed tax based off your guess?

Originally Posted by perdition(troy Why don't you just guess the amount of things you buy online and just write in your assumed tax based off your guess?

Same reason no one here cuts extra checks to the government via Pay.gov.

It's easy to talk about wanting to give the government extra money. Not so easy to actually do it.

See, this is why I chuckle every time bob says he isn't republican. He is, but he's in deep denial about it. I mean the guy says things that are straight from the party line, but he isn't republican.

If I'm going to give the government extra money they need to take it automatically and everyone in my income bracket and doing the same amount of online shopping needs to be getting hit with the same share. My doing it alone does no good, the system has to change so everyone is chipping in more for it to make a difference, and you can't put that burden on tax payers and expect people to accurately report and pay.

Guessing would be very imprecise anyway since I buy nearly everything but groceries online these days, and it's impossible to keep straight which places are charging tax and which aren't etc. They need to make a standard online sales tax rate the feds collect and distribute to the states to automate things.

Basically, "I am not willing to put forth the extra effort required to show that I actually believe what I say when I say that I'm willing to pay more in taxes."

ya, that was kind of a pathetic response. If paying more is that big of a deal for you, and you have the time and extra money to do it just do it and stop talking about wanting to do it. It is almost as annoying as buffet rambling on and on about wanting to pay more taxes but the government isn't giving him a higher rate so he just keeps paying the same rate rather than paying more toward a cause he seems to believe in.

"I want to go down to the soup kitchen to help feed the homeless, but it's just sooo cold outside and I'd have to wait for my car to warm up."

Originally Posted by Javery Whatever. How many people in this thread purposely don't take deductions that they otherwise could have (not against the rules)

I'm going to answer : Everyone that isnt rich???

Is it really hard to believe? See this is what I'm talking about when I say the rich dont even file taxes the same way the rest of us do. They'll deduct everything they can in the hopes that they'll fall into a different bracket. Whereas us normal people cant do that. We dont want too many deductions because then it'll look like we earned less money when we apply for home loans or car loans.

wait what? I'm by no means rich (I'm not poor, I'd consider myself solidly in the middle class) but when I file my families taxes I take every deduction that is humanly possible. I wouldn't for one second consider implications for a home or auto loan when I file taxes.

You're a weirdo? ( Just the fact that you wrote "wait what?" like it was news to you..I dont know how else to respond to that)
Dont get me wrong , I'd love to do that. But it isnt going to help me in the long run , it'll only hinder me.