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@Motoki
Did they PROMISE Steam keys to early-buyers in the first place?

I see nothing wrong with them not giving Steam keys out. It isn't like they stated they would if they got on Steam before hand. Seems more like entitlement from people imo.

I'm new to using mods so I thought I'd ask here. I only own the DLC Episodes for GTA IV. If I download player skins, will they work with those too or do they only work with the original game?

Originally Posted by Redrazorback Can someone who has played To the Moon give me an idea of how long it takes to finish? It sounds pretty good from what people are saying, but if it's too short I might wait to see if it turns up in a humble bundle someday.

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm tempted to pick it up. Also, the howlongtobeat site a couple of people linked is very cool. Thanks for that as well.

I don't think the promised anything.

Though I do have to question the integrity of one of those answers. He says that they don't do keys because it breaks a contract and also stiffs Valve some money. Then why are there dozens of other indie devs that do it? Hell there have been multiple indie bundles now based around the concept. You'd think if this were truly something Valve didn't appreciate they'd step in and stop it.

Originally Posted by KaOTiK I see nothing wrong with them not giving Steam keys out. It isn't like they stated they would if they got on Steam before hand.

I agree. Expecting a steam copy when you didn't pay for a steam copy is absurd, unless they actually promised it.

Originally Posted by Englando IV That seems like the normal thing to do, to me. If I buy a game from particular location, I would never expect them to just give me more "copies" from other locations, later.

Most developers are pretty good about doing it if you ask. Sometimes people buy Indie games early on before they are on Steam to support those developers but then the games get added to Steam later on and those people would like to have it on Steam when it is an option.

I can personally attest that I have been able to do with with a number of different indie developers and most are quite gracious about it. Some will give you a Desura key or gift copy too if you ask.

Originally Posted by Corpekata I don't think the promised anything. Though I do have to question the integrity of one of those answers. He says that they don't do keys because it breaks a contract and also stiffs Valve some money. Then why are there dozens of other indie devs that do it? Hell there have been multiple indie bundles now based around the concept. You'd think if this were truly something Valve didn't appreciate they'd step in and stop it.

Exactly. It's BS and he's making excuses.

Anyway, I am not going to argue with you guys. Think whatever the hell you god damned please.

I just think it's the decent thing to do for a developer to return the favor for people who supported them early on before they hit the big time with Steam.

Originally Posted by KaOTiK I see nothing wrong with them not giving Steam keys out. It isn't like they stated they would if they got on Steam before hand. Seems more like entitlement from people imo.

I'll have you know the Right to Steam Keys is secretly hidden in an obscure clause of the 5th Amendment~

Christ, if I knew it was going to stir all this shit up...

What am I saying, it's the internet of course someone is going to go YOUR OPINION IS WRONG BECAUSE BLA BLA BLA.

Anyway, it's an opinion. You guys don't have to agree or like it and I don't have to buy games from developers with policies like that.

The End.

Now go back to bitching about how much the deals suck bla bla.

I'm more on the NoBuy side because of the buggymessness factor than anything else, but I side with Motoki on this one I think. Early supporters help the game to get made, without financial support it wouldn't happen (one would assume). Maybe we'e just been spoilt in the past.

Anyways, balls to this. I should be asleep!

Originally Posted by Motoki Most developers are pretty good about doing it if you ask. Sometimes people buy Indie games early on before they are on Steam to support those developers but then the games get added to Steam later on and those people would like to have it on Steam when it is an option. I can personally attest that I have been able to do with with a number of different indie developers and most are quite gracious about it. Some will give you a Desura key or gift copy too if you ask.

So, because it's happened in some cases, anyone who doesn't find a way to go past reasonable expectations is a douche who hates his customers. Got it.

Originally Posted by Motoki YOUR OPINION IS WRONG BECAUSE BLA BLA BLA. ... The End.

Now you leave him outta this!

Originally Posted by Motoki Most developers are pretty good about doing it if you ask. Sometimes people buy Indie games early on before they are on Steam to support those developers but then the games get added to Steam later on and those people would like to have it on Steam when it is an option. I can personally attest that I have been able to do with with a number of different indie developers and most are quite gracious about it. Some will give you a Desura key or gift copy too if you ask.

As much as I'd like to get a Steam-version when I already own another version elsewhere, I'd NEVER expect it.

I'd never expect AAA studios like say EA to give me Mass Effect 2 Steam-key, when I own it already from Retail (which optionally activates on Origin);
or say UbiSoft to give me Far Cry 2 on Steam, when I already own it from Retail.

I did have Greg Kasavin offer me a Steam-copy of Bastion b/c it had Stranger's Dream DLC, when I was unhappy that my copy of Bastion (DRM-FREE) on Gamersgate didn't have the DLC for sale on their site. Well, little did I know - he said to check and redownload Gamersgate's build and see if it got added b/c he sent them one recently - and it was updated! The file was bigger in size. And the new content was there in-game! Crisis averted. I told Greg to keep his Steam-key and that I appreciated his very nice offer. Why Gamersgate didn't note on their Bastion page the game got Stranger's Dream DLC added, I'll never know.
{shrug}

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Flowette Now you leave him outta this!

LOL! :- X

Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

*click* *click*

Wow it suddenly got a lot quieter in here.

Originally Posted by Flowette I'm more on the NoBuy side because of the buggymessness factor than anything else, but I side with Motoki on this one I think. Early supporters help the game to get made, without financial support it wouldn't happen (one would assume). Maybe we'e just been spoilt in the past. Anyways, balls to this. I should be asleep!

In all seriousness. If the gameplay side of things and the buggy/non-bugginess of it is your main criteria you should probably find someone who owns it since I am just going off of hearsay on that.

And yes, you should be in bed.

Originally Posted by Flowette Anyways, balls to this. I should be asleep!

Better get your beauty sleep in now cause there is gonna be some insane Doom Rails action at this time tomorrow!!!

Spec Ops: The Line is a poorly written love letter to Chuck Palahniuk. "Dear Chuck, I think you are a good book writer. You have inspired me to write good book too. Please read this copy I have enclosed and tell me how good it is."

The morality choices don't even exist. Choices are only choices if they are actually choices and then make some sort of impact. Kill this guy, or not, whatever. Kill these civilians, or not, you'll feel the same either way. The white phosphorous scene was weak at best since most people would try to avoid doing it, thus creating a disconnect when forcing the player to do it. I didn't feel bad about doing it because I had no choice not to.

The gameplay ranged from mildly enjoyable to extremely frustrating. This coincided with the annoying difficulty spikes between the regular gameplay segments and the hold this area segments.

If the morality choices were better fleshed out and the story actually reached the bar they were trying to set I'd agree with all the praise. As it is, I think people are praising the story because people are telling them to praise the story, and who wants to be the outsider?

To The Moon, it seems like an interesting concept that would make a good movie but I'm not sure how well it would work in a game. Has anyone played it and can you give a recommendation on it?

Originally Posted by Preedatore Spec Ops: The Line is a poorly written love letter to Chuck Palahniuk. "Dear Chuck, I think you are a good book writer. You have inspired me to write good book too. Please read this copy I have enclosed and tell me how good it is." The morality choices don't even exist. Choices are only choices if they are actually choices and then make some sort of impact. Kill this guy, or not, whatever. Kill these civilians, or not, you'll feel the same either way. The white phosphorous scene was weak at best since most people would try to avoid doing it, thus creating a disconnect when forcing the player to do it. I didn't feel bad about doing it because I had no choice not to. The gameplay ranged from mildly enjoyable to extremely frustrating. This coincided with the annoying difficulty spikes between the regular gameplay segments and the hold this area segments. If the morality choices were better fleshed out and the story actually reached the bar they were trying to set I'd agree with all the praise. As it is, I think people are praising the story because people are telling them to praise the story, and who wants to be the outsider?

A great game is a great game; and a great story is a great story.

In this game (Spec Ops: The Line) to me, it doesn't matter if there are (what looks to be) "choices" there...and they have little to no impact. The point is - WAR is HELL and no matter what, it's going to be horrible. That's it.

Same can be said about Bioshock, as well. A LOT of that game has "double-speak" on the illusion of choices in games, as well.
Hence Atlas/Fontaine mentioning "Would you kindly..." a billion times and you basically follow HIS wanted LINEAR path; and there's VERY FEW cut-scenes b/c those takes control away from the player - and at the MOST important moment in the game, they TAKE control purposely AWAY from the player and you slaughter Andrew Ryan.
The choice in Bioshock is how you deal out the combat, NOT in the real outcome of the story and your "so-called" mission.

It doesn't matter if you save or harvest Little Sisters - you're STILL eventually going to get all the same amount of Adam (experience points) to upgrade your character.
The only thing - game isn't much different, except for the final ending (one super-flowery; the other super-abrupt, dark, and violent).

Some games do use the "illusion of choice" to beat something right over your head - even when you think you might have some choice laid in front of, you really just don't have choice. Doesn't matter what you decide - you're screwed. Outcome's still gonna be the same - bloody horrible. You're always at the mercy (if there is any) of the designer and their rules entirely; and also at the mercy of whatever moments and outcomes they decide to actually script for you. Same can go for life in some instances, as well - no matter what, you're flat-out screwed.

Also - these games like Bioshock and Spec Ops: The Line are very linear shooters, in the path you follow. They are NOT say RPG's littered w/ multiple decisions galore where throughout the entire game, where things are purposely always changed on you depending on what you decide. Not every game is going to try to be Alpha Protocol where every decision you make can change...just about everything. Plus, Triple-A titles w/ that kind of "Choice" insanity take forever to develop.