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Originally Posted by RedvsBlue Anyone trying to assert the 3ds is a failure despite selling 30 million is just straight up trolling. That's more units in 2 years than the original Xbox sold over its entire lifetime...

Agreed, the 3DS became a big success once they lowered its price...

Originally Posted by crunchewy I get a lot more use (and exercise) out of Kinect than I ever did the Wii Balance Board. I suppose if I was into Yoga it would be different. Wii Fit was either too much like exercise, or was only marginally - barely - exercise (the games).

WiiFit is bad as an exercise program. How do you keep your heart rate up when you're navigating menus every 2 minutes? It's good as a way to track weight.

Originally Posted by Deader2818 You have made your point clear though. You personally just want to buy the console for 249.99. Its not like you posting every chance you get on every article you find on the Internet is going to make that price point happen faster. System needs games. Once games come out (holiday time) system will see sharp sales move up at 349.99.

I don't see that happening. The PS4 and Xbox 3 will be out during the next holiday at similar pricing and I expect it will steal any hope of Nintendo having a banner holiday in 2013.

I think you guys are dreaming if you think PS4 and neXtbox are going to be less than $399. With Connect and all that stuff, there's no way for MS to go that low. Sony won't do it either. I see both of those being at least $399, and Nintendo should smartly drop the Deluxe to $299 with digital Nintendo Land--one SKU only, except for limited time special bundles.

And the new PS and Xbox will have the same problem: few games, high prices and minor improvements. Makers will be wary of investing in new hardware when existing systems have massive install bases. People will make the same complaint that they're "failures" because more people bought PS360 bundles at a discount than the new consoles.

//why am i posting in sales figure threads augh

I think it's possible that at least Microsoft will offer a contract version of the 720 with a 2 year Live Gold subscription, and initial low cost. $199 with 2 years of Live service, or something like that. This would probably be appealing for at least some. Sony may offer something similar with a 2 year contract on paying for PS+. It's a way to get the latest and greatest at an initial low cost, and a kind of loan with benefits. I.e. going the cell phone route - reduced price with contract.

Originally Posted by crunchewy I think it's possible that at least Microsoft will offer a contract version of the 720 with a 2 year Live Gold subscription, and initial low cost. $199 with 2 years of Live service, or something like that. This would probably be appealing for at least some. Sony may offer something similar with a 2 year contract on paying for PS+. It's a way to get the latest and greatest at an initial low cost, and a kind of loan with benefits. I.e. going the cell phone route - reduced price with contract.

This. I think MS will definitely do this. I've had people disparage me and tell me I'm stupid/an idiot and that its a huge waste of money for consumers. This is cheap ass gamer. We aren't the normal consumers and people coming here with the assumption this is how most people buy is a mistake. I'm sure they'll do a subsidized console and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a lot of people willing to pay more over 2 years. It's not THAT bad anyway.

If you assume that the average consumer gets a year of live at $40 (which I doubt), that's $480+tax. To buy outright with a discounted live membership.

The you have:
200 + tax + 360 (15 * 24) = 560 + tax.

480 vs 560 - most states have sales tax between 5 and 10%.
Even if you assume only 5% sales tax on the subsidized console:
Including tax it's $500 vs. $570

So assuming the consumer gets 2 years of memberships at 40 a year instead of 60 and that their sales tax is only 5%, anyone that wants the console and will already want XBL will only be paying $70 more over 2 years to pay $200 less up front. I bet a lot of people do that. Most wont even do the math.

If they live someplace like FL with 10% sales tax and they regularly pay $60 for their annual membership, this only costs them $10 more and would be a no brained.

I think this forces a $100 price drop on the Wii U.

Originally Posted by crunchewy I think it's possible that at least Microsoft will offer a contract version of the 720 with a 2 year Live Gold subscription, and initial low cost. $199 with 2 years of Live service, or something like that. This would probably be appealing for at least some. Sony may offer something similar with a 2 year contract on paying for PS+. It's a way to get the latest and greatest at an initial low cost, and a kind of loan with benefits. I.e. going the cell phone route - reduced price with contract.

Between them seeing how the cell phone market can support this practice and their own tests with the $99 Xbox 360, I think it's pretty clear this program will expand with their new console. Perhaps even to the point that you can only buy it under contract (but I think that might be a bit of a long-shot). Microsoft will no doubt see Xbox live as an integral part of their system much in the same way cell phone service is essential to the use of a cell phone. I could be wrong, and I'm hoping I am because it sets a really crappy tone for the direction of the video game industry if it succeeds.

People that already have running XBL substitutions won't touch it.

Im sure Microsoft will do it, im sure there will be some people that buy it. But its still a rip off no matter how you look at it.


Honestly, until they even announce what launch games will be out for 720/Ps4, wont have any idea how well it will sale.

With Halo 4 and Gears of War already coming out, unless they have some new IP to launch,what exactly is the 720 going to offer?

Originally Posted by Deader2818 People that already have running XBL substitutions won't touch it. Im sure Microsoft will do it, im sure there will be some people that buy it. But its still a rip off no matter how you look at it. Honestly, until they even announce what launch games will be out for 720/Ps4, wont have any idea how well it will sale. With Halo 4 and Gears of War already coming out, unless they have some new IP to launch,what exactly is the 720 going to offer?

Of course it's a rip off. I addressed that in my post. In terms of subsidies and/or accounts you pay interest on - they're all rip offs. I still think they will sell A LOT like this. As I mentioned above, not to CAG's but you can't base the regular population off of us.

It would be interesting to see how many 99 dollar 360s they have sold doing this.

Again, its a good enough "deal" for some people, but if it doesnt have some awesome game(s) at lunch, I don't think people will go for it.

A large amount of the people that would fall for that are people that use their 360 mostly for netflix, hulu, etc so they would see no point to upgrade.

Originally Posted by Deader2818 It would be interesting to see how many 99 dollar 360s they have sold doing this. Again, its a good enough "deal" for some people, but if it doesnt have some awesome game(s) at lunch, I don't think people will go for it. A large amount of the people that would fall for that are people that use their 360 mostly for netflix, hulu, etc so they would see no point to upgrade.

I have no opinion on your statement that most people that do this only want media streaming. I was thinking single mother buying Xbox for teen kids and early 20's adults personally.

One podcast I listen to they "heard" the $99 Xbox was more successful than MS had expected. IMO this is just the kind of shit consumers fall for.

Your podcast seem to not me the most reliable when it comes to info.

Unless there is actual numbers to back that, I don't know if its successful or not.

But even of the single mom buying an xbox, if no good games for the 720, why buy that when you can buy a much cheaper 360 that will have GTA and the new Call of Duty for much cheaper?

Originally Posted by Deader2818 Your podcast seem to not me the most reliable when it comes to info. Unless there is actual numbers to back that, I don't know if its successful or not. But even of the single mom buying an xbox, if no good games for the 720, why buy that when you can buy a much cheaper 360 that will have GTA and the new Call of Duty for much cheaper?

I'm not sure about the games. Right now you could claim NO GAMES are coming out for it as none have been announced. This same podcast they claimed that the next Xbox was to come out last year but that it was postponed because MS felt the kinect was giving them an extra couple years of profits. If there's any truth to that then we will know soon enough. Some multiplayer on Wednesday may be announced for PS4 and of they look like more than tech demos then that's an indication. E3 also - if there's tons of stuff announced in good playable shape then that will tell us that its likely true as well.

I'm not sure that the podcast is unreliable. It's your word against theirs and they work in the industry and have been right on a lot of stuff including the PS4 announcement back when everyone else was saying its too early and they would announce at E3 anyway. They hit the nail on the head predicting this announcement....about 4 months ago.

Since we dont know what podcast, we dont know its pedigree, but in general, the $99 xbox is a good deal for Microsoft if it moves in any quantity. They are able to sell a $320 package for $454.

I assume the hardware part of the xbox division is break even at best (especially considering the RRoD writedown), but XBL seems to print money.

Originally Posted by Blaster man I'm not sure about the games. Right now you could claim NO GAMES are coming out for it as none have been announced. This same podcast they claimed that the next Xbox was to come out last year but that it was postponed because MS felt the kinect was giving them an extra couple years of profits. If there's any truth to that then we will know soon enough. Some multiplayer on Wednesday may be announced for PS4 and of they look like more than tech demos then that's an indication. E3 also - if there's tons of stuff announced in good playable shape then that will tell us that its likely true as well. I'm not sure that the podcast is unreliable. It's your word against theirs and they work in the industry and have been right on a lot of stuff including the PS4 announcement back when everyone else was saying its too early and they would announce at E3 anyway. They hit the nail on the head predicting this announcement....about 4 months ago.

Its funny you still don't understand the difference between ANNOUNCE and LAUNCH

Originally Posted by moothemagiccow And the new PS and Xbox will have the same problem: few games, high prices and minor improvements. Makers will be wary of investing in new hardware when existing systems have massive install bases. People will make the same complaint that they're "failures" because more people bought PS360 bundles at a discount than the new consoles. //why am i posting in sales figure threads augh

PS4 and Nextbox won't have the issue of a lot of it's launch games just being games that have been out for awhile on other consoles. That's something that probably really hurt Wii U since no one is going to buy a Wii U to play Darksiders 2 or Mass Effect 3 or sports games.

They'll probably have those launch games that people will act like they're better than they are just because they're something new that will help sell the console (aka Resistance, Kameo?, and even the Wii U has ZombiU).

It might have been best if they would have waited til March or something to release the Wii U so it would have had some more unique games.

Originally Posted by foltzie Since we dont know what podcast, we dont know its pedigree, but in general, the $99 xbox is a good deal for Microsoft if it moves in any quantity. They are able to sell a $320 package for $454. I assume the hardware part of the xbox division is break even at best (especially considering the RRoD writedown), but XBL seems to print money.

The $99 Xbox is a great deal for M$. The $99 or maybe $199 for the 720 provides a low entry cost allowing many more people to buy the system at launch. Thus, M$ is able to maintain or expand their userbase increasing profitability on the software/XBL front. Meanwhile, they turn around and *sell the Ks to a third party to service them. M$ gets paid upfront and lets someone else deal with the headache.

*I'm not sure if M$ is currently selling their Ks to a third party but I'm fairly certain this is what they'll end up doing.

Originally Posted by whoknows PS4 and Nextbox won't have the issue of a lot of it's launch games just being games that have been out for awhile on other consoles. That's something that probably really hurt Wii U since no one is going to buy a Wii U to play Darksiders 2 or Mass Effect 3 or sports games. They'll probably have those launch games that people will act like they're better than they are just because they're something new that will help sell the console (aka Resistance, Kameo?, and even the Wii U has ZombiU). It might have been best if they would have waited til March or something to release the Wii U so it would have had some more unique games.

I wouldn't be so sure. If they do launch this holiday like many thing, they might just get ports of stuff like Call of Duty, GTA, Watchdogs.

It'd be a bad idea for Microsoft to have a subscription model out of the gate for 720 if the 360's subscription model still exists this fall. It'd cause a lot of consumer confusion and they would cannibalize each other.

Originally Posted by KingBroly It'd be a bad idea for Microsoft to have a subscription model out of the gate for 720 if the 360's subscription model still exists this fall. It'd cause a lot of consumer confusion and they would cannibalize each other.

How would it cause a lot of consumer confusion? People buy new phones all time. In a market where new devices are released yearly. Heck, sometimes we get multiple release of the same phone within the same year. Yet, consumers seem to deal with that just fine.