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Starting salaries for college graduates of 2011 are up from 2010 across the board, which is good news of course. However, I have to gripe about a few studies I've seen and question how they have gathered their informaiton.

It doesn't really matter which report I quote because there are several of them. Referencing one at random, I see starting salaries for liberal art majors in 2011 are averaging about $40,000 per year. Business gradates are averaging $53,000 and engineering graduates are starting off at roughly $65,000. These are starting salaries for recent college graduates. Some of them may have had internships, but only a select few of them can honestly list post-graduate professional experience on their resumes.

I remember back when I graduated college just a few years ago. I finished a Master of Business Administration and had both a bachelors and masters degree in marketable fields with a 4.0 GPA for both degrees from a state university. I went on dozens of job interviews as the job market was highly competitive at the time. Average starting salaries for the positions I was interviewing ranged from about $25,000 per year and $35,000 per year. I finally landed a job offer at $35,000 per year and thought I was doing pretty well for myself considering the other positions I interviewed for. Keep in mind these were all positions aimed towards college graduates. It was hard enough to find a job interview that offered a salary at all. Quite a few so-called job interviews I found were comission-based insurance sales and 'sports marketing' positions requiring you to sell crap as a door-to-door salesperson or to your family for comission only.

I understand there are other factors to consider such as region, prior experience, and who you happen to know. Granted, my parents were not hot-shots at some big company who could get me in the door. Granted, I had no internships in college because I could never afford a car when I was in college. Granted, I live in Houston, Texas whether that carries any weight. Still, are recent business college graduates for my field now starting at an average of over $50,000 per year when I was seeing $25,000 to $35,000 just a few years ago?

Do these studies include only those fortunate enough to find high paying salaried postions and overlook all those who cannot find work in our economy and have to move back in with their parents? Does anyone care to comment on the typical life of a college graduate in 2011? I think these studies are all bogus.

Sorry, but I chuckled at the GPA and masters portion. Degrees just open the door for advancement and GPA means nothing quite honestly. I have a Bachelor's in CIS and yet I work in IT making more than what you listed as the highest starting salary after just five years in the field. My GPA was never high, couldn't even tell you what it was. What I can tell you is I spent my college years gaming and making business connections that way. Nice guys always finish last.

It's an average.

Every area is different.

No offense, but isn't that obvious?

Yes these studies only focus on those who actually get jobs, since the bottom and middle of the pack are typically unemployed or working in the service sectoe and not counted as professionals average starting pay has shot up.

Also location has a huge impact on salary, but the increased salary often goes hand in hand with increased cost of living.

Originally Posted by seanr1221 It's an average. Every area is different. No offense, but isn't that obvious?

I understand the studies are based on averages, but I am also looking at averages. I probably went on a dozen or more job interviews for professional post-graduate positions during my final year of grad school and during the following months after graduation, and the average starting salary for the postions I was interviewing for was between $25,000 and $35,000 annually. The only variable is location. Other than that, I am comparing apples to apples. I could be wrong, but the last time I checked Houston was not some podunk town that no one has ever heard of without an economy of its own.

Immediately after college graduation, GPA is important. This is because the typical 22 year-old hasn't had a chance to earn 3 to 5 years post-graduate experience yet. Everyone is pretty much on the same playing field at that point. The only difference between one 24 year-old graduate and another is whether the person was academically involved, GPA, had an internship, and had a few Mickey-Mouse jobs sacking groceries while in college. You can't expect someone who just graduated from college at the age of 24 to have already worked 10 years in a Fortune 500 company with a prestigious title. It happens from time to time, but rarely. At that point, GPA is one of the few things a lot of people have going on for them, so it does matter. Ten years later it may not matter, but right after graduation it does.

Either the job market has drastically improved over the past few years or Houston pays pennies on the dollar compared to the rest of the United States.

Originally Posted by Jodou What I can tell you is I spent my college years gaming and making business connections that way. Nice guys always finish last.

I went to college in a small town where the only thing going on was prison and college. If you lived in the town, you were either a prisoner, worked at the prison, or were a college student at the university. I lived on campus and nearly everyone I assoicated with was a young college student just like myself. Because everyone was still young, they were not yet 'business connections' as they were still in college and had not even yet entered the professional work force. At that point, we were all working the summers at Subway and local retail stores and focused on academics during the Fall and Spring. Most 'business connections' were people over the age of 30 who lived in neighboring towns, and we rarely associated with them as they simply were not seen on college compass. We had our lives and they had theirs. Wasn't this normal?

It's a nation wide average. The average gets pulled up by those that make bigger salaries--higher paying urban areas, higher paying fields like engineering etc. And I'd guess that unemployed grads aren't counted and it's just a sample of those who found jobs.

And yeah, GPA can matter in getting your first job if you don't have the experience. But experience is what really matters in getting a good job. If you didn't do an internship and don't have connections in your field the job market is always going to be tough--even moreso when unemployment is high.

Another area GPA matters a LOT is if you want to go on to grad school/med school/law school etc. of course. I'm on the committee that reviews applications to my departments master's and Ph D program now, and the main things that matter at the master's level are GPA and GRE scores, along with their personal statement showing that their interests match what our program is about. Ph D level, GRE and GPA still matter, but their research interests, experience and letters of recommendation from professors from their Master's program matter more there.

No, GPA is pretty pointless unless you had a pretty low one. Experience trumps it by far.

You say the only variable is location (which isn't really true) but that's a HUGE variable. Cost of living can be radically different even within a 45 minute driving distance.

Originally Posted by seanr1221 No, GPA is pretty pointless unless you had a pretty low one. Experience trumps it by far. You say the only variable is location (which isn't really true) but that's a HUGE variable. Cost of living can be radically different even within a 45 minute driving distance.

If you're a 22 to 24 year-old college graduate, how can you be expected to list impressive work experience on your resume? Most people at that point have only held low-paying jobs while working their way through college.

If you are 30 years old, you should be expected to have professional work experience on your resume, but this pertains strictly to recent college graduates, most of whom are in their early 20's. Most college students aren't fortunate enough to land prestigous internships.

Granted, location is an important variable, but is Houston really that podunk of a town? I know it's not Los Angeles, but it has an economy of its own.

Dude, you should really start posting in the VS. forum.

Anywho, I extremely surprised(not really) that you didn't network your ass off in grad school. Everyone in business(actually, not just business) knows that it's not what you know, but who you know.

edit: Here's a quick rundown of a few broader issues you're bringing up
-Commoditization of higher education
-Glut of college graduates
-Lack of meritocratic hiring and promotional practices
-Externalization of training costs
-Under-employment

edit 2: Houston might not be a podunk town and I'm under the impression that it's a pretty big metropolitian city, but I don't think that it's really known as being a financial city.

Originally Posted by dohdough Dude, you should really start posting in the VS. forum. Anywho, I extremely surprised(not really) that you didn't network your ass off in grad school. Everyone in business(actually, not just business) knows that it's not what you know, but who you know.

It was a small town. Nearly everyone was a college student themselves, and I had no transportation. I was too poor to afford a car.


No local business connections + No car + parents and family know no one = no professional networking

Originally Posted by steve_k It was a small town. Nearly everyone was a college student themselves, and I had no transportation. I was too poor to afford a car. No local business connections + No car + parents and family know no one = no professional networking

Was this some integrated undergrad/grad program?

Originally Posted by steve_k It was a small town. Nearly everyone was a college student themselves, and I had no transportation. I was too poor to afford a car. No local business connections + No car + parents and family know no one = no professional networking

Did your school not have any kind of internship programs where you could go somewhere else to work/intern for the summer etc?

Otherwise, yeah that sucks. If you did a business focused degree, then it would have been better to go to a university in or near a big city so you'd have more intern and job opportunities.

But yeah, it's a really tough time for college grads right now. A bachelor's degree is like the new high school diploma as pretty much everyone applying for most decent jobs has one. And with unemployment so high, new grads are up against people with lots of experience even for entry level jobs--so they're at a huge disadvantage.

It's a good time for people to consider going to grad school or med school or law school. Get into a good program, be sure to network etc. while doing it and hope the job market is better when you finish up. I know you did that, but an MBA without experience won't get you very far in the current business world climate unfortunately. It's a field I'd suggest students to avoid right now personally.

Originally Posted by dohdough Was this some integrated undergrad/grad program?

From him being near Houston, and saying there was nothing in the college town but Prison, he has to be talking about Sam Houston State.

That's in Huntsville, Texas, and it is indeed a crap hole, podunk town with little their but the big prison and Walmart etc.

I can't speak to their business program, but their graduate program in my field gets laughed down as that crap out Ph Ds left and right so a lot of their grads struggle on the academic job market as people don't put much stock in the quality of their degrees vs. people from more rigorous doctoral programs.

But maybe the business school is better regarded.

I graduated from college (brick and mortar state university) and went on at least a dozen job interviews targeted to college graduates. In addition, I collected information at numerous job fairs, all of which were targeted to recent college graduates.

90% of the dozens of employers I met were offering somewhere between $25,000 per year and $35,000 per year. Some were even lower than $25,000.

Now I read that the average starting salary for recent college graduates is roughly DOUBLE than what I found through several months from dozens of employers. This was only a few years ago.

I analyze the variables between my experience and what I've read. The variables include the time frame, location, and the the fact I suspect these studies are crap. I raise an eyebrow and start asking questions.

Now I'm being bashed for asking questions.

Imagine you are shopping for a car and find a model with an MSRP of $16,000. You make a dozen trips to a dozen car dealers and find a dozen prices between $14,000 and $18,000 (each car is virtually identical in every conceivable way). Then your buddy tells you he walked into a car dealership and was quoted $8,000 on his very first venture for the very same car. You would be tempted to call BS on him, right? Maybe that's going to a bit of an extreme, but you would be tempted to start asking questions, wouldn't you?

No ones bashing you, just explaining the averages.

For instance, my girlfriend's sister got an MBA from Stanford a few years ago and made $80K or so her first year working after that.

Things like that drive up average salary. The high salary outliers pull the average up. Studies should really report the median instead of the average as it's not effected by outliers since it's just the midpoint of the data.

I can tell you that someone with an MBA only getting job interviews in the $25-35K range is not the norm from people I know. But most I know went to higher ranked universities, and worked in major cities like San Fran, New York etc.

That said I do think it's odd to only find those types of things in Houston (maybe try Dallas?), but if you have no experience just having an MBA isn't going to help much as they're are tons of people with MBAs and years of experience looking for jobs right now after getting laid off etc.

Times are tough, so you'll just have to ride it out try to get a job that gives you some relevant experience, and network your ass off while there to try and move up in the business world and make more money.

Here's a link that has median starting pay by degree. That should help you see why the average is around $40K. It gets pulled up by things like some specialized engineering degrees that make big bucks starting out.

http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

Though the median salary (which isn't as influenced by outliers) for a business degree is $41K, so it's right around the $40k average overall for college grads....

Originally Posted by dohdough Was this some integrated undergrad/grad program?

No

I did really well in my undergraduate studies. I had the finances to support a masters degre with continued education and applied to grad school for a masters degree directly out of undergraduate school.

By the way, I graduated about 5 years ago. Since then, I have worked my ass off and now am finally making the 'average' starting salary of a recent college graduate in my field based on the studies I've found.

Apparently I did something wrong.

Originally Posted by steve_k Apparently I did something wrong.

As we've been saying, getting jobs is all about who you know--especially in business.

Going to an isolated university and not getting any work experience in internships during undergrad or grad school is where you made it harder on yourself.

You'd have been better off going somewhere else for the MBA that was in a major business center and had a good internship program etc.

Where you go to grad school matters as well as you'll get better connections at top programs (i.e. people doing hiring are more likely to hire people who graduated from the same place as them etc. Again, I can speak to the business school, but Sam Houston as a whole isn't highly regarded at all in academic circles.

Absent that experience and connections, all you can do is what you've done--start at the bottom and bust ass and work your way up the hard way.

Originally Posted by steve_k Most 'business connections' were people over the age of 30 who lived in neighboring towns, and we rarely associated with them as they simply were not seen on college compass. We had our lives and they had theirs. Wasn't this normal?

Let me put it this way: in a course I was taking, I found a bunch of the guys were gaming nuts like me. We started a LAN club that offered tourneys and prizes, all small-time mind you, but turned out one of the guys worked for his father in a family business. He got me an internship with his dad and turned out he contracted out for a global corporation. Straight out of college I had a letter of recommendation to said corp and a foot in the door. GPA didn't matter, the degree helped, but in the end it was the dude I played Wolfenstein with after class that was my business connection all the way up.

That can't be normal, but it sounds like you spent too much time studying and not enough 'partying'. Does that make sense?