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The video game industry is facing a hardening of the creative arteries as aging gamers' tastes increasingly shift toward sequels and games based on movies, industry participants said this week.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...x2&cid=964

I personally have becomed sickened with the sequel-laced gaming industry. Some sequels are well-deserved, however, it is tiresome to play the same game two or three times. The better the graphics get, the worse the gameplay seems to get. Even the vaunted FF series seems to be losing some of its storytelling magic. Although X was masterfully beautiful to look at, I felt that the story didn't come close to touching VII, Tactics, or some of the other older games. What are we to do?

Looking through the movie listings, it's hard to see any creativity there either, with sequels and TV show remakes filling up the list. Movies and TV shows have been around for decades and video games has only existed a small percentage of that. Yet imagination has been around since the dawn of time and has taken us this far. The games will come. There is nothing to do but just wait for them.

On a side note, I think its funny that the media will only report on the video game industry if there is a murder trial or controversy surrounding them.

Sequels are fine and dandy, generally - movie based games have a tendancy to suck hard. Always. Since the dawn of time.

While it's true that many new games are based on existing properties, often the games themselves are completely original. For instance, the new MGS looks to be significantly different than previous ones, and the recent Ninja Gaiden is nothing like it's predecessors (and is a LOT better, in fact).

Spider-man was good, and the sequel looks better...on both fronts. And then there was Goldeneye, and the new Bond game is its own movie sequel.

I do have to agree that 99% of all movie/comic book games suck, but every once in a while a Simpsons Hit and Run or X-men Arcade comes along

You know it's funny how it's the "hardcore" gamers that complain most about sequels and how they don't allow new creativity in the marketplace. Yet when you open Play, EGM and look at their "Reader Most Wanted" lists wow, what's there; Halo 2, MGS 3, FF XII, Onimusha 3, GTA: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4. Who reads magazines? The hardcore, casual gamers don't buy EGM and Play.

Folks, we ask for this. It's in the letters we write, games we buy, pre-orders we place. It's a sequel and franchise driven marketplace. When new games do come out that deserve our attention like Beyond Good & Evil, XIII, I-Ninja, Billy Hatcher, Culdcept and dozens of others in just 2003 we RUN from them. I may have bought them all but not many others did. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the crap the market has become. Hell, I can point to this entire website and say CAG's are a big reason why gaming is sequel instead of original driven.

Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.

Originally Posted by PittsburghAfterDark You know it's funny how it's the "hardcore" gamers that complain most about sequels and how they don't allow new creativity in the marketplace. Yet when you open Play, EGM and look at their "Reader Most Wanted" lists wow, what's there; Halo 2, MGS 3, FF XII, Onimusha 3, GTA: San Andreas, Gran Turismo 4. Who reads magazines? The hardcore, casual gamers don't buy EGM and Play. Folks, we ask for this. It's in the letters we write, games we buy, pre-orders we place. It's a sequel and franchise driven marketplace. When new games do come out that deserve our attention like Beyond Good & Evil, XIII, I-Ninja, Billy Hatcher, Culdcept and dozens of others in just 2003 we RUN from them. I may have bought them all but not many others did. We have no one to blame but ourselves for the crap the market has become. Hell, I can point to this entire website and say CAG's are a big reason why gaming is sequel instead of original driven. Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.

He's right ya know.
When a game first comes out, thats when the big wigs take notice. If the game is flat out dissapointing sales wise, thats when they try and forget it ever existed (unless your sega...). BG&E had great reviews, mild amount of marketing, and a crappy release date... thats why CAG's picked it for $20. Do you think they really notice that "Hey! Our games with millions invested in marketing and production sell great as Value titles!" and then decide to try something new again?

Originally Posted by rebenns While it's true that many new games are based on existing properties, often the games themselves are completely original. For instance, the new MGS looks to be significantly different than previous ones, and the recent Ninja Gaiden is nothing like it's predecessors (and is a LOT better, in fact).

I wouldn't go that far. Different, not better.

Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.

Nope. I'm not.. because I can see the big picture.
I bought Ninja 5-0 when it came out.
I bought Wade Hixton's Counter Punch when it came out.
I bought Road Trip when it came out
I bought Seek and Destroy when it came out.
I bought Mr. Mosquito when it came out.
I bought R-Type Final when it came out.
I bought Ikaruga when it came out.
I bought Blowout when it came out.
I bought Bomberman Jetters when it came out.

I buy niche games by smaller developers/publishers the day they come out, because I want those games to be made or brought to the US.

I've got quite a few more I'm willing to buy for full price as soon as they come out.

I mean, I already have a preorder down for La Pucelle.
I have preorders down for Mega Man Aniversary Collection and Mega Man mania.

If a developer makes something I want, I'll be the first in line to support it and vote with my dollars.

I'm mainly using CAG to pick up the major developers games for cheaper, or to find gems that I may have let slip through the cracks.

JSweeney you and I are in the same boat. However we're a distinct minority, even on gaming message boards. Anyone that pre-orders La Pucelle is as hardcore as they come. Hell, I'm just getting around to ordering Disgaea today.

I bought Ikaruga, Rayman 3, Amplitude in addition to the games I've already mentioned. I have 200+ games from this generation and LOVE the obscure titles no one else seemingly knows exists. My favorite PS2 game is Rez, next is Maximo and Ico.

I find that with as much crap Sony takes about their approval process for the PS2 it's the system with the most hardcore titles. Hell, we mentioned many of them. Oh, I have Mister Mosquito, Mad Maestro, Gitaroo Man and countless other titles like this. Every time I show Gitaroo Man and Space Channel 5 to people they think I've flipped....

The thing about book and movie sequels is that each one is a unique experience. Reading the 4th Harry Potter book doesn't make Books 1-3 obsolete because they are still interesting stories (so I'm told). That's why I think story-driven sequels, like Metal Gear Solid, work well (or Final Fantasy, which is a sequel in name only). But with non-story driven sequels, like the Tony Hawk series, for example, it's like each game - unless they make a huge mistake - makes previous versions obsolete. Why spend time playing the 1st Tony Hawk game when you can play 2, 3, 4, or Underground?

I belive that if a formula works in a game don't mess with it. If it aint broke don't fix it! There may always be room for some improvement, but sometimes there isn't and messing with the formula of a game will just kill the game.

We can't allow oursleves to be fickle gamers where every game or sequal has to be completely different or new. Innovation is good if applied properly, but a lot of times it isn't applied properly and games just get messed up. Radical changes in good game formulas usually do more harm than good.

Originally Posted by PittsburghAfterDark Number one line on CAG for a new release? "I'll wait until the price drops." You people have no room to talk, you are the problem.

Who are you to put the blame on others, that's quite hypocritical... you call yourself a CAG as well and take advantage of price drops too. I know you said that you buy hardcore games, but most people don't have that luxury.

I guarantee you the majority of people here don't have the money to drop on release date games. Hence, the cheapassness. If I could I would pay full price, but I don't. Does that translate into lost revenue for that independent software house, theoretically yes, but in actuality no.

It is presumptous to say that CAGers or cheapsses in general are the problem, when the true problem involves many factors, including the creative well-spring drying up temporarily as well as the high standards for success these days. If anything, games seem to be less creative these days because we tend to pigeonhole everything, saying a game is just like GTA, or Halo or <insert game here>.

i think the main reason people don't buy new, unadvertized games is b/c of money. not everyone has a lot to spend so when they do, they wanna make sure it'll b worth their money. this however leads to people buying better known games and possibly sequels where the prequel had already proven itself worthy. this is where v start losing the lower budget titles (or not well known).

Originally Posted by magilacudy Who are you to put the blame on others, that's quite hypocritical... you call yourself a CAG as well and take advantage of price drops too. I know you said that you buy hardcore games, but most people don't have that luxury. I guarantee you the majority of people here don't have the money to drop on release date games. Hence, the cheapassness. If I could I would pay full price, but I don't. Does that translate into lost revenue for that independent software house, theoretically yes, but in actuality no. It is presumptous to say that CAGers or cheapsses in general are the problem, when the true problem involves many factors, including the creative well-spring drying up temporarily as well as the high standards for success these days. If anything, games seem to be less creative these days because we tend to pigeonhole everything, saying a game is just like GTA, or Halo or <insert game here>.

Amen, Magilacudy! If CAGs are such a "problem" then PAD and his buddies should go elsewhere.

JSweeney you and I are in the same boat. However we're a distinct minority, even on gaming message boards. Anyone that pre-orders La Pucelle is as hardcore as they come. Hell, I'm just getting around to ordering Disgaea today.

The thing is, I don't define myself as hardcore. I enjoy good games, and have the sense to know that if there is a style of games you like, or a price point you'd like to catch on, you support those games.
Why do you think Majesco and Altus keep on bringing over Japanese games that you'd never get to play... because they can sell them at a reduced cost, and still make money. So long as they keep these practices up, I'll keep buying.




I find that with as much crap Sony takes about their approval process for the PS2 it's the system with the most hardcore titles.

That's wrong. The reason Sony gets the niche titles is because they have a HUGE userbase, and the third parties don't have to worry about an inordinately strong support base for first party games.
Some of Nintendo's lastest stuff has been far more creative and more aimed as niche audiences.

Hell, we mentioned many of them. Oh, I have Mister Mosquito, Mad Maestro, Gitaroo Man and countless other titles like this. Every time I show Gitaroo Man and Space Channel 5 to people they think I've flipped....
Altus, Altus, Koei. Sony has very little to do with those games. The reason they end up on the PS2 is so that they can exploit the huge userbase and hopefully break off a decent share of user for itself.
If Nintendo or Microsoft had the install base of the PS2, they would have almost all the niche titles on thier console.

Hey, most people on this board won't even pick up original titles. Don't bother shifiting the blame to me and saying I should go somewhere else. The games I've picked up on the cheap and find out about from this board sometimes fall through the cracks of my buying schedule. I buy like 8 games a month, even at that rate I can't keep up with every release. Then by the time I do get to them they're $19.99 or $29.99. Battlestar Galactica, I:Ninja, Goblin Commander are all examples of that. With how crowded 4th quarter was last year not even avid collectors like me would have picked them up before PGR 2, SSX 3, Rainbow Six III, Links, Top Spin or countless others.

Meanwhile we have people on here educating people on the Wal Mart scam, people inquiring about how to get a shrink wrapped game to return and the like. I write a critical post of gamers and posters go ballistic and tell me I should STFU or leave? I think I proved my point when you protest too much, the truth hurts.

Oh, and I'm happy to report, I finally got around to ordering Disgaea today.... for $49.99. Can't find a CAG deal on that one.

I know you said that you buy hardcore games, but most people don't have that luxury.

This is bull. People here pass over "hardcore" games when they are cheap. How many threads have we seen about Sphinx, BG&E, I:Ninja, Rygar, Kya and other "hardcore" games? Dozens? Even when these games are rock bottom cheap they sit and sit. There's no reason I should be able to walk into a store and see 5 copeis of Beyond Good & Evil at $19.99. They should be gone, period.

The point is people don't recognize good games anymore. Then you magnify it with the internet and boards like this, IGN, Gamespot... they're all the same, and posters say "I'll wait until the price drops." even though they want it. Listen, I know games are expensive. $50 is too much to do several times a month. However you can't excuse a game like R:Type Final that came out at $29.99 for not doing well, it's not the game... it's the buying public.

You're right when you say it's a complex issue but even when these games do go cheap they aren't picked up.

I hate sequals and they bore be.

Viewtiful Joe is a perfect example of a great original title.

I think there is a tendency to believe that because we like something, it should sell well. Take Ico for example. I bought it when it was new (buy 2 get 1 free offer at Toys R Us, Fall 2001) but there's NO WAY I would recommend it to a casual player. They would be deeply disappointed. It's not immediately gratifying - it's sort of a sublime, subtle charm - and I know people would feel it's a bit short and lacks replay value (because it is and does).