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Originally Posted by thingsfallnapart Doesnt matter to me, he looked beyond terrible at times and i dont think hell ever be an elite quarterback from what ive seen. 53% just doesnt cut it.

Yeah, I know ALL QBs are graded on their completion percentage to determine whether they're busts or not and that there's a cutoff point to get into the hall of fame, as well.

Originally Posted by Quillion I have to agree with you. He's not a bust yet. We'll see him when he hits 30. However, that doesn't change my view that he's overrated, just like his brother. For example, he got the most fan votes in the Pro Bowl ballotting. Of any player. He didn't deserve to go, I'm glad he's not. I'm also glad that Jake Plummer gets to go (as an alternate for Carson Palmer) He deserves to much more than two of the NFC QBs.

He is a little overrated, but it's the team around him that makes helps him play a little above his current skill level.

Originally Posted by FriskyTanuki He is a little overrated, but it's the team around him that makes helps him play a little above his current skill level.

Thank you, you just summed my entire point frisky.

If you think the team around him helped him play above his skill level, and he recended during the second half of the season and looked like crap, im worried about him. He can be good, but i dont think hes a pro bowler. If he was under Mike Holmgren id say in 4 or 5 years he could be a pro bowler, but rite now its time for that team to fire coughlin and bring in a qb coach if there seriously commited to manning.

Originally Posted by Duo_Maxwell Both are bad form really, but not really even the same, he blamed the coaching, Manning is essentially Indy's play caller anyhow. IMO blaming the coaches isn't the same as blaming teammates, calling out your teammates is worse because that isn't your place and most anyone who's played team sports will agree. If you payed enough attention to it you'd realize he audibled into at least one (I saw two I think) of those sacks. If he on occasion audibled to something like a counter it'd be fine but he rarely does that. Hell Manning could've prepared them better too, they said all week they'd go after him. Barber said as a team they didn't play with enough intensity too, at least he said they failed largely as team. But Manning blamed everyone else but him then he took individual credit for drawing up some crock play for 2 pts. It's not the first time he's done this so your chalking it all up to simple frustration makes little sense anyhow. He's damn near 30 now, it's about he grew up and realized if you want to be leader you have to realize you need to shopulder some of the responibility when things don't go right as well and try and roll your guys under the bus.

He audbiled into one because the Steelers changed the side they blitzed from. Manning put his protection in the right spot - the Steelers just outsmarted him. It happens.

Manning ALWAYS takes the blame - I don't know what the you're talking about. Every year that he loses he says its all his fault. I love how NOBODY has any kind of memory in the NFL, especially the fans. This is the first time I've heard Manning call out a specific position on his team. And yes, it was due to frustration. I'm sure he's already apologized to his o-line for the comments.

If Manning was really one to start throwing teammates under the bus, he would've done so to Vanderjagt but didn't.

Originally Posted by javeryh Yeah, leading the NFC in TDs and second in total yards your first full year playing really sucks. Oh yeah, he also lead the Giants to the NFC East Championship in the league's toughest division.

Quick! Name a good QB in the NFC! Someone who had the starting job all year and had to throw for touchdowns!

Seriously, he was only over 50% in completions because of the quality of the receiving corps.

Hasselbeck was much more consistent, much better rating. He didn't have as many TDs or yards simply because Shawn was sucking them all up. TWENTY-EIGHT! Only one receiving.

Second, it was not the league's toughest division. That distinction belongs to the west. The AFC West, that is.

Originally Posted by mmn He audbiled into one because the Steelers changed the side they blitzed from. Manning put his protection in the right spot - the Steelers just outsmarted him. It happens. Manning ALWAYS takes the blame - I don't know what the you're talking about. Every year that he loses he says its all his fault. I love how NOBODY has any kind of memory in the NFL, especially the fans. This is the first time I've heard Manning call out a specific position on his team. And yes, it was due to frustration. I'm sure he's already apologized to his o-line for the comments. If Manning was really one to start throwing teammates under the bus, he would've done so to Vanderjagt but didn't.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2003/0202/1503003.html

Originally Posted by ESPN Peyton Manning called teammate Mike Vanderjagt an "idiot kicker" at the Pro Bowl on Sunday

Almost a year ago.

Originally Posted by Quillion http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2003/0202/1503003.html Almost a year ago.

If I remember it was the 03' Pro Bowl.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns

NFL says ref got Polamalu call wrong; no comment on Porter remark

If the NFL fines Porter they are out of their minds.

Originally Posted by thingsfallnapart Thank you, you just summed my entire point frisky. If you think the team around him helped him play above his skill level, and he recended during the second half of the season and looked like crap, im worried about him. He can be good, but i dont think hes a pro bowler. If he was under Mike Holmgren id say in 4 or 5 years he could be a pro bowler, but rite now its time for that team to fire coughlin and bring in a qb coach if there seriously commited to manning.

Fire Coughlin for what? He's only been in New York for two years and he's turned them into a playoff contender. There's nothing that needs to be changed at the moment unless some of the coachless teams find someone that they like in NY. Eli just has to work on his game in the offseason and work on his consistency, nothing that requires the major changes you suggest.

Originally Posted by GuilewasNK http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns NFL says ref got Polamalu call wrong; no comment on Porter remark If the NFL fines Porter they are out of their minds.

Porter is definitely getting fined. This is the NFL we are talking about here.

Originally Posted by mmn He audbiled into one because the Steelers changed the side they blitzed from. Manning put his protection in the right spot - the Steelers just outsmarted him. It happens.

So he gets outsmarted then blames his teammates? Yeah that makes sense...

Originally Posted by mmn Manning ALWAYS takes the blame - I don't know what the you're talking about. Every year that he loses he says its all his fault. I love how NOBODY has any kind of memory in the NFL, especially the fans. This is the first time I've heard Manning call out a specific position on his team. And yes, it was due to frustration. I'm sure he's already apologized to his o-line for the comments.

Look up and you think I have a bad memory? You need to check your hearing if it's the first you've heard. While he does take some blame, he's not always blamed his teammates either (sometimes it's unexplainable or it's the defense playing recievers too tight) and but I'm sure has little respect for them. I see Brady who could play any place for more money stay in NE, hell he asks his linemen to do his lameass commercials with him. When was the last time you saw Jeff Saturday in one of Manning's lameass commercials. If you look at his comments after a loss he says we alot more than I, but I can't totallly fault him for that. And if he has apoligized (which I doubt) he should do it publicly seeing as how that's how he offended them.

Originally Posted by mmn If Manning was really one to start throwing teammates under the bus, he would've done so to Vanderjagt but didn't.

Nah, he's done that already, plus you can't blmae the kicker when they had every chance in world to win (but apparently you can blame your line). You're one of the Peyton fans who can't stop raving about him, I guess I can get that, but even if this was the only incident you should acknowlage that it was a pretty crappy thing to do to your teammates.

maybe if peyton wasn't gunning for the end zone and was trying to play the game for field position, the kicker would not have had to kick a 46 yard field goal.

In other news, the projected outlook of the 2006 draft goes as follows:

1) Bush to Texans
2) Leinart to Saints
3) Young to Titans
4) Ferguson to Jets
5) Hawk to Packers
6) Williams to Raiders
7) Davis to 49ers
8) Ngata to Bills
9) Justice to Lions
10) D.Williams to Cardinals

where did you get the list from and who is davis?

Originally Posted by CaseyRyback maybe if peyton wasn't gunning for the end zone and was trying to play the game for field position, the kicker would not have had to kick a 46 yard field goal.

Something he's suppose to be pretty good at.

Originally Posted by DT778 where did you get the list from and who is davis?

From ESPN's draft site, I'd have to say it's Vernon Davis, TE from Maryland.

The problem with ph33r is that it's too vague with just the last name listed.

Originally Posted by FriskyTanuki From ESPN's draft site, I'd have to say it's Vernon Davis, TE from Maryland. The problem with ph33r is that it's too vague with just the last name listed.

yeah it looks like that is him.

Norv Turner hired as 49ers offensive coordinator

Don't give me the "experience" excuse on Eli Manning. So he's only been in the league two years.

So what.

So has Ben Roethlisberger. He's playing in his second AFC Championship game. No second year quarterback has ever lead a team to two consecutive conference championships. Not Bradshaw, Elway, Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Tarkenton.... nobody. Before anyone says the Steelers were a great team before he was drafted? They were 6-10 the previous year and 10 players were picked before Big Ben including Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers.

The Mannings as a pair are the most egotistical, self-centered quarterbacks I've seen in a generation. They both remind me of Martel from "The Replacements" oh, with one big exception, supposedly Martel won something. I see this pair following in old man Archie's mold, never winning shit.

Originally Posted by PittsburghAfterDark Don't give me the "experience" excuse on Eli Manning. So he's only been in the league two years. So what. So has Ben Roethlisberger. He's playing in his second AFC Championship game. No second year quarterback has ever lead a team to two consecutive conference championships. Not Bradshaw, Elway, Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Tarkenton.... nobody. Before anyone says the Steelers were a great team before he was drafted? They were 6-10 the previous year and 10 players were picked before Big Ben including Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers. The Mannings as a pair are the most egotistical, self-centered quarterbacks I've seen in a generation. They both remind me of Martel from "The Replacements" oh, with one big exception, supposedly Martel won something. I see this pair following in old man Archie's mold, never winning shit.

Ben had a horrible playoffs last year the only reason they got to the conference championship was that the Jets shot themselves in the foot repeatedly. Ben is good but there isn't a big load on his shoulders. He doesn't attempt nearly the amount of passes an average qb does