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Originally Posted by cgarb84 This thread was civil and informative before UFC 100. Now it has all kinds of new people posting who like to talk out of their ass. If these are the kinds of "new fans" Lesnar brings to the sport then color me unimpressed.

This is amusing and ironic considering the amount of immature comments that are made by the people who are accusing Brock Lesnar as being disrespectful.

I now know why it's good to stay on the video game side of CAG. Some of the comments here make the Sherdog forums look enlightened. (with exception to Nate who backed his points with valid arguments and didn't result to insults).

I'm out of this OTT. It's a waste of time.

The Lesnar thing has been done to death I just want to mention Hendo.

Now, I completely think going in the for the kill after someone is KO'd is totally wrong - but I do wonder if Hendo was really doing that and not just trying to finish the fight.

I know he said he was in the interview with Rogan - but I think he was just trying to sound like a big man.

These guys are trained to keep going 100% until the ref steps in. Obviously sometimes there is no need after a CroCop head kick and the guy is obviously out - but sometimes with the juices flowing and stuff I don't think the guys know it.

Originally Posted by whiptcracker This is amusing and ironic considering the amount of immature comments that are made by the people who are accusing Brock Lesnar as being disrespectful. I now know why it's good to stay on the video game side of CAG. Some of the comments here make the Sherdog forums look enlightened. (with exception to Nate who backed his points with valid arguments and didn't result to insults). I'm out of this OTT. It's a waste of time.

Well, I've been enlightened since the day I was born, haha

Seriously, though, as I said earlier...trying to bring some levity. What are we arguing about anymore, guys? It's gone so far past beating a dead horse that the horse has decomposed and we're standing over nothing with puzzled looks on our faces. In the end, there will be people who like Lesnar for numerous reasons, and people who dislike him for numerous reasons. Both sides have compelling arguments, and neither side is likely to convince the other of anything.

One thing I hope we all could agree on though is that Lesnar has an amazing opportunity to become one of the greatest champions in MMA history. Sure, he and the fans have gotten off to a rocky start, and many people weren't willing to give him a chance, but he also hasn't done much to help it (some might say it's a self fulfilling prophecy).

I guarantee you that if he'd shut up for two seconds and just let his fighting do the talking, the fans would eventually embrace him and he could become a great ambassador for MMA. Whether he has any interest in doing that or not is on him though. But as a fan of the sport, it's something I'd definitely appreciate. As fun as it may be to hate the "villain", I'd much rather have a champion we can all be proud of.

I don't why there's alot of controversy about Henderson. He did the exact same elbow drop when he knocked out Wanderlei Silva at Pride 33. Gave Renzo Gracie another punch to the face after he was out in Pride 13. That's the way he fights, there's no malice involved, just pure adrenaline.

Hell, Rampage giving unnecessary blows to Wanderlei's face was much worse than that fight.

LOL mir's talking shit saying he was within half of inch of catching him. i guess you gotta sleep better at night telling yourself something. LESNAR'S THE MAN!

Originally Posted by whiptcracker As I said, I misspoke. Each had recognized and respected the other fighters ability before their recent fight. Again, if you think two years of hate suddenly disappeared after fighting each other, then wow. Again, other professional writers on the sport all agree that what Henderson did was bad, and yet ignored. Which is the whole point, if you think what Henderson did was ok, but what Lesnar did was not, then you're watching it through rose colored glasses.

I just have a couple things to reply to then I am done arguing with you about this stuff. One more time, yes I do believe it is possible for 2 fighters to hate each other AND gain a tremendous amount of respect for each other after a tough fight with each other. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

People are seriously blowing this Henderson thing way out of proportion and it makes me laugh. I have NEVER once praised what Henderson did. What I did say and have been saying from the beginning is fighters fight til the ref stops them. This kind of thing after a KO happens ALL THE TIME.

I personally don't care at all what all the "professional" MMA writers say about the Henderson fight. I put about as much stock in these writers as I do the "professional" judges that consistently wow me with their awful decisions (Akiyama over Belcher).

I know throughout this topic I have supported my opinions with very valid arguments. Some of the comments in here do indeed make the Sherdog forums seem extremely intelligent...not pointing any fingers.

So I am done arguing about this stuff.

gah...i lost my long typed reply. stupid error messages.

anyway short bullet

• don't worry about brock. ufc is too big at this point.
• hendo's late punch is common. post-fight interview doesn't change that.
• ufc magazine is surprisingly good. go check it out.
• carwin vs. cain is awesome. i'm pumped.
• undercard was CRAZY. NIGHT OF THE GUILLOTINE

i have 5 years of BJJ/MMA training and have been watching since the first ufc if it matters.

Damn stupid website lost my message earlier. Oh well, it was just my attempt to sum everything up and stop arguing. I'm just done now.

The Hendo thing is a non-Issue. You go untli the Ref stops the fight.

Originally Posted by n8rockerasu My response to Fanboy (he typed so much, I felt like I owed him a response, haha)

Thanks for your long and considered response. Although we disagree, it's nice to see there can still be civil discourse.

At any rate, whiptcracker expressed any points I felt needed making both eloquently and concisely:

Originally Posted by whiptcracker If you don't think that these guys play it up to get more PPV buys, I think you might not understand how it works.

Originally Posted by whiptcracker Considering what they're trying for approval in New York, and something like that could cost them approval, it's completely hypocritical to slam Lesnar over his comments that might cost them Bud Light when Henderson's actions might cost them Madison Square Garden.

Originally Posted by whiptcracker If anything knowing the history of the sport makes peoples reaction to lesnar seem so much more hypocritical.

I'll leave the discussion to those knowledgeable fans who know so much about the sport that they can't see why Lesnar is the sport's biggest PPV draw or how he got to be that way.

Lesnar is the biggest draw the UFC has because of his WWE days, not anything else. His antics in the ring help only a small amount. Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture have been 2 of the biggest draws in the history of the UFC and it certainly wasn't because of their trash talking and promos. It is because they were both likeable and very entertaining fighters.

Seriously? With the Hendo thing. These guys are programed to go until the bell stops or the ref stops it. Do you think in anyway possible that Hendo processed in the 2 seconds between the knockout bunch and the ground punch that it was over? He didn't, because the ref didnt stop it or the bell didn't win, this happens in every single fight that ends with a knockout. Its muscle memory and adrenaline, you are already throwing the next move.

Oh and I think Lesnar is a scumbag, I hope Carwin rips his head off, but he is good for the sport in the regard that he is a good bridge from WWE fans to make the transition over, even though they arn't really the best fans one can ask for. One can just hope that after watching it and getting into other fighters besides Brock that some of the humility of the sport will rub off.

Bad news for all you brock haters, No one in the UFC has a chance. The only fight I see actually being a fight is Brock Vs Fedor. Those who are pulling for Carwin are going to be highly disappointed.

Here is his record

Win Gabriel Gonzaga TKO (Punches 3/7/2009 1 1:09
Win Neil Wain TKO (Punches 10/18/2008 1 1:31
Win Christian Wellisch KO (Punch) 5/24/2008 1 0:44
Win Sherman Pendergarst TKO (Punches) 12/1/2007 1 1:41
Win Rex Richards Submission (Guillotine Choke) 10/27/2007 1 1:24
Win Rick Slaton KO 9/15/2007 1 0:49
Win Chris Guillen Submission 6/24/2006 1 0:29
Win Justice Smith TKO (Punches) 6/3/2006 1 0:31
Win Jay McCown Submission 4/29/2006 1 1:31
Win Casey Jackson Submission (Guillotine Choke) 3/18/2006 1 0:22
Win Carlton Jones Submission (Punches) 10/14/2005 1 2:11


All ending in the first round and really all no names(with the exception of Gonzaga...who can be a wash sometimes). He has yet to be tested where as Brock has proven himself. I would like to see this fight but i dont see him being able to beat Brock.

Originally Posted by cgarb84 Lesnar is the biggest draw the UFC has because of his WWE days, not anything else. His antics in the ring help only a small amount. Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture have been 2 of the biggest draws in the history of the UFC and it certainly wasn't because of their trash talking and promos. It is because they were both likeable and very entertaining fighters.

The biggest draw in UFC history, Tito Ortiz, says hi. Tito was, imo, worse than Brock, and yet he still is the biggest draw in UFC history. Brock being hated will only increase buys as people will pay to see him lose. And I think he will gain more fans because people flock to conterversial figures.

Originally Posted by Pavel6969 The biggest draw in UFC history, Tito Ortiz, says hi. Tito was, imo, worse than Brock, and yet he still is the biggest draw in UFC history. Brock being hated will only increase buys as people will pay to see him lose. And I think he will gain more fans because people flock to conterversial figures.

That is pretty much why Dana let him into the UFC ... he is a pay-per-view selling machine, as seen during the post-fight interview.

Originally Posted by Bmac1775 Bad news for all you brock haters, No one in the UFC has a chance. The only fight I see actually being a fight is Brock Vs Fedor. Those who are pulling for Carwin are going to be highly disappointed.

Since you seem to have a time machine, can you tell me who wins the World Series this year too? You can't just say NOBODY can beat Brock. He's looked very dominant in his last couple of fights, but we've never seen him take a shot either. If you get somebody who's strong and can neutralize his wrestling (ie. Carwin), you might be surprised.

What if Carwin gets Brock on his back? What happens then? I think at this point, you could say Lesnar's OFFENSE is dominant, but his defense is more untested than Carwin's is. In the Gonzaga fight alone, we saw Carwin get off his back and knock him out.

Originally Posted by Bmac1775 All ending in the first round and really all no names(with the exception of Gonzaga...who can be a wash sometimes). He has yet to be tested where as Brock has proven himself. I would like to see this fight but i dont see him being able to beat Brock.

All this proves is exactly how dominant Carwin has been. I'll admit, a lot of the names on that list are nobodies, but you can't argue with the results. 11 wins is still impressive, and plenty of guys have gotten title shots without rolling off 11 straight wins. I'm not saying Carwin will definitely beat Lesnar. But to say he doesn't have a chance just shows what a man crush you have on Brock.

Seeing as Carwin weighs about the same, has bigger fists, and has a wrestling background as well, it's pretty lame to say Carwin wouldn't have a chance. Brock wouldn't be able to smother him like he did with Mir.

Originally Posted by n8rockerasu All this proves is exactly how dominant Carwin has been. I'll admit, a lot of the names on that list are nobodies, but you can't argue with the results. 11 wins is still impressive, and plenty of guys have gotten title shots without rolling off 11 straight wins.

Beating tomato cans isn't impressive.

Originally Posted by Pavel6969 The biggest draw in UFC history, Tito Ortiz, says hi. Tito was, imo, worse than Brock, and yet he still is the biggest draw in UFC history. Brock being hated will only increase buys as people will pay to see him lose. And I think he will gain more fans because people flock to conterversial figures.

Tito is one exception besides Brock. There are many others who do it the other way, classy and respectful. Examples being Couture, Liddell, Anderson Silva, Wanderlei Silva, Andrei Arlovski, Matt Hughes, GSP, even Rampage fits the bill to a certain extent. You don't have to be a dick to sell PPV's.

^Good post but Arlovski doesn't fit in as he currently doesn't have a job in MMA.