Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

Shooting in Conn. School


  • Please log in to reply
1178 replies to this topic

#121 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:45 AM

There's something called the Chain of Custody. If someone along that line was negligent, then that needs to be dealt with.


The most recent thing I saw was that the guns -- including the assault rifle (which was apparently grandfathered in as she owned it pre 1993) -- were all legally owned and registered by the mother/teacher.


Investigators believe the gunman shot his mother at home,


Looks like DD got his wish.

Easy to forget that, often times, the gun owners are victims too.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#122 UncleBob

UncleBob

Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:47 AM

I agree though that making baseless statements before all facts are known is advisable[...]


Kotaku has an article up about a flub with Facebook and Mass Effect.

More interesting is the fact that one guy's name was attached to the shooter and it turned out to be his brother.

All the more reason to give it some time before flying off the handle.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#123 Msut77

Msut77

    Occam's Shank

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:00 AM

People just don't want to admit that sometimes you just can't stop some tragedies from occurring.


We are not the only country with crazy people, yet we lead the planet in mass shootings.

Discuss.
wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#124 ZombieToast

ZombieToast

    He wears a disguise to look like human guys.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

The actual type?

Okay, my response is a bit belated, but...seriously? Do you honestly think a person without mental issues would shoot up a school of small unarmed children? Is there a sane reason for doing so? I don't even think "crime of passion" or "temporary insanity" can apply to this situation. There are a lot of details we don't know yet, but I think it's a given that he was mentally handicapped in some capacity.

Edited by ZombieToast, 15 December 2012 - 09:48 AM.


#125 IRHari

IRHari

Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:02 PM

If the legislation regarding "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines" that was attempted to be included the last cyber security bill is to be the bench mark or foreshadow what is to come, possession would be limited exclusively to current owners with destruction/confiscation following their death. There would be no sale of what you own allowed and no transfer of the prescribed arms period.



Enter the limited capacity magazine fallacy. The irony is that a person who can quickly and effectively swap out a ten round magazine is more dangerous the someone wielding a weapon with a cheap high capacity magazine. It takes very little practice to learn to do so. Recent events being the best evidence- what part of his gun caused the jam allowing Loughner to be subdued? His 33 round pistol magazine according to witnesses.

What failed in James Holmes theater shooting causing him to flee?
What jammed in Jacob Roberts' rifle in the mall shooting?

As even the most novice gun owner can testify to it takes much longer to clear a jam than swap a mag.

Sickeningly, I'd rather these people equip themselves thusly than learn how to use something that is in reality far more formidable.


Isn't it possible for them to, y'know, do both? Learn how to swap and use multiple high capacity mags?
"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#126 Msut77

Msut77

    Occam's Shank

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:15 PM

Isn't it possible for them to, y'know, do both? Learn how to swap and use multiple high capacity mags?


You do realize he is talking moron gibberish right?
wahhhhh noone helped me so they must not help anyone. - knoell

#127 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

You do realize he is talking moron gibberish right?

Okay, I was 1. Drinking (and indeed apologies are in order for posting UI) and 2. Assuming your referring to my later rant- I was seeing Mykevermin's invocation of Godwin's law and raising him with Poe's- it seemed obvious and funny at the time.

Look who's talking about moron gibberish. Prattle, prattle, prattle.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#128 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

Woah. Godwin? Where?

What precisely *had* you been drinking last night?
Posted Image

#129 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

Woah. Godwin? Where?

What precisely *had* you been drinking last night?


You told me to go back to the Stormfront forums. (which in my naivete I actually had to google, because initially I thought it was a game).

Mid-grade Bourbon.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#130 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

Oh, drat. You win, my apologies.

Fair enough.
Posted Image

#131 willardhaven

willardhaven

    Thief of Life

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

Why weren't the guns properly secured? I've never owned a gun but if I did it would be in a safe that only I knew the combination to.

People whining about more regulation should note that we are tougher on beer than we are on guns.

I've heard reasonable arguments on both sides of the gun debate, but is this incident really applicable? I guess our culture of gun worship might have contributed.

On a side note, perhaps I'm cynical but it irritates me to see people so moved by this tragedy on Facebook when none of them seem to care about all the kids getting laid out daily in Syria and other parts of the world.

PaulManda.png


#132 irideabike

irideabike

Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:00 PM

How are we tougher on alcohol (real question)?

#133 Spokker

Spokker

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

How are we tougher on alcohol (real question)?


We aren't. It is easier for a young person to get alcohol than it is a gun, but both can be easy. We have black markets for both products, but I imagine an adult would be more willing to purchase alcohol for someone under the age of 21 than purchase a gun for someone under the legal age.

#134 Dr Mario Kart

Dr Mario Kart

    SD/2D Defense Force

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:15 PM

Maybe theres a beer show loophole I dont know about

#135 EdRyder

EdRyder

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:20 PM

So how exactly would gun control prevent tragedies like this from occurring? If someone wants to do something like this, they'll find a way. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's inaccessible.


Heres the rub: (Not to repeat myself) This is exactly what Giuliani was insinuating on CNN the day before the shooting. Where does this idea even come from?

If someone wants to do something like this, they'll find a way.

Certainly not experience.
You can throw a random case of a mass stabbing from Japan at me as evidence but that doesn't make it factual. What happens more often? Mass shootings or stabbings?

As for the notion of mental illness and how to identify , treat and commit these individuals - Thats the red herring.
We know absolutely nothing about the psychology of the people that commit these crimes. Nothing.
Think of all the psychology we know about murderers , serial killers, rapists etc etc etc. Take all the collective knowledge on psychology we have on criminals and their motives. We have no idea, no concept, no clue, no answers at all to what sets off or motivates anyone to commit massacres like this.

So now what? You guys want to go back to the twenties where husbands could just tell the Doctor - "My wifes crazy" And then shes committed to a mental institution against her will?
Lets loosen these laws instead of tightening these laws - Makes no effin sense.
What does treat these individual even mean? Medicate? What happens when they decide "I'm well now, I dont need this medication anymore"??

Lets just get rid of the guns already ffs. It isnt rocketsurgery

Note : Thirty of these types of mass tragedies have occured since Columbine.
Doing something about the guns *again the thing thats happening in reality* is overdue.

We can at least try to stop this.
Pulling a Flanders beatnik parents all "Ive tried nothing and Im all out of ideas" isnt going to fly anymore.

#136 Spokker

Spokker

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:41 PM

There are other dimensions to this story and issue aside from the actual shooting.

I think we may have the most hypocritical leader in the free world. Obama cries about children being killed in Newtown while under his administration, between 282 and 535 civilians have been killed in drone strikes, including 60 children. These are only credible reports and it would be difficult to have an accurate count of this for obvious reasons.

Since Friday afternoon, 10 people were wounded in nine separate Chicago shootings and two are in serious condition. It appears that Chicago has not slowed down since the summer. It goes without saying that Chicago is a place with very serious gun control. The 2011 running tally for Chicago's South Shore neighborhood is over 100 homicides and many more wounded.

#137 skiizim

skiizim

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

I'm glad those those people in Chicago don't now how to aim that is pretty tragic in such a small period of time.

#138 speedracer

speedracer

    Get off my lawn

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:26 PM

I've been drinking heavily. Also I have monster children. So YMMV.

Gun locks with fingerprint unlock.
Gun safe a requirement for ownership. You don't even have to use the fucking thing. Most will because they were forced to buy it.
...

That's all I got.
Posted Image

#139 mykevermin

mykevermin

    Queen of Scotland

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:21 PM

http://www.washingto...-united-states/
Posted Image

#140 Spokker

Spokker

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

Gun safe a requirement for ownership. You don't even have to use the fucking thing. Most will because they were forced to buy it.

You're a tool of Big Safe!

#141 winterice

winterice

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:04 PM

Glock, Sig Sauer and 223 Bushmaster. Are these the guns used in the shooting? I haven't read anything that states what guns were used. I saw this on a clip of Piers Morgan on Huff Post.

Ok, forget it, just founded the answers.

Edited by winterice, 15 December 2012 - 09:36 PM.


#142 highoffcoffee496

highoffcoffee496

    I gotta believe!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:02 AM

http://www.washingto...-united-states/


http://news.yahoo.co...-185700637.html

"There is no pattern, there is no increase: says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston's Northeastern University."

"Chances of being killed in a mass shooting, he says, are probably no greater than being struck by lightning."

"Still, he understands the public perception — and extensive media coverage — when mass shootings occur in places like malls and schools. "There is this feeling that could have been me. It makes it so much more frightening."
(\__/)
(='.'=)
This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

Posted Image

#143 cancerman1120

cancerman1120

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:49 AM

I was just talking with my sister and her ultra-conservative husband about this and he says to me EVERY teacher should have a gun and be trained to deal with this. I kind of just stared at him because I really could not believe he thought this was the logical answer to the problem. 6+ million teachers all bringing a loaded gun to school. Yeah that sounds like the solution.

#144 GBAstar

GBAstar

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:52 AM

I was just talking with my sister and her ultra-conservative husband about this and he says to me EVERY teacher should have a gun and be trained to deal with this. I kind of just stared at him because I really could not believe he thought this was the logical answer to the problem. 6+ million teachers all bringing a loaded gun to school. Yeah that sounds like the solution.


That sounds like a horrible idea and one bad thought away from "Everyone should be armed" as if we live in the Wild West.

#145 Access_Denied

Access_Denied

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 03:59 AM

I think the bigger problem is how we treat mental illness in this country. You don't go to bed a normal human being and then wake up one morning with the urge to go on a killing spree on a school. People must have known that he wasn't right leading up to this event. If these people could get the medical help they need, a lot of this could be avoided.


I don't believe that. Sometimes people just snap. My dad had a guy at work come in about 10 years ago and beat the shit of somebody with a baseball bat. The person he hit wasn't even a target, but he just snapped one day and came in looking for his boss, and when he couldn't find him, hit the first guy he saw.

And to be honest, I could see it happening again. I worked at the same place with my dad for 3 years, and as pissed off as people were about the shitty working conditions, I wouldn't be surprised. It's not like these guys aren't 'normal human beings', it's just that there's only so much you can take.

I do agree that there are some of these cases that you can see coming a long way off. But in some situations, there's really no warning signs. It's a 'straw that broke the camel's back' scenario, and some guys just snap.

#146 Purple Flames

Purple Flames

    MC Sucka DJ

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:34 AM

I was just talking with my sister and her ultra-conservative husband about this and he says to me EVERY teacher should have a gun and be trained to deal with this. I kind of just stared at him because I really could not believe he thought this was the logical answer to the problem. 6+ million teachers all bringing a loaded gun to school. Yeah that sounds like the solution.


Yes, because nothing makes me feel better than the idea of an overworked, underpaid, disgruntled teacher who has to deal with rowdy children and teenagers 5 days a week carrying a firearm during math class.

Logic fails these people, and hard.

#147 Temporaryscars

Temporaryscars

    Talks like a Dalek

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:34 AM

I don't believe that. Sometimes people just snap. My dad had a guy at work come in about 10 years ago and beat the shit of somebody with a baseball bat. The person he hit wasn't even a target, but he just snapped one day and came in looking for his boss, and when he couldn't find him, hit the first guy he saw.

And to be honest, I could see it happening again. I worked at the same place with my dad for 3 years, and as pissed off as people were about the shitty working conditions, I wouldn't be surprised. It's not like these guys aren't 'normal human beings', it's just that there's only so much you can take.

I do agree that there are some of these cases that you can see coming a long way off. But in some situations, there's really no warning signs. It's a 'straw that broke the camel's back' scenario, and some guys just snap.


Nobody just snaps one day and kills 20 kids. Sorry, but your evidence of "my dad knew a guy!" doesn't prove anything. What was the guy like before he "snapped?" Totally normal? Also, how does beating somebody with a baseball bat equate to shooting up a school? Was the guy he beat with the bat just standing around and chosen at random? Too many holes.

Yes, because nothing makes me feel better than the idea of an overworked, underpaid, disgruntled teacher who has to deal with rowdy children and teenagers 5 days a week carrying a firearm during math class.

Logic fails these people, and hard.


Probably not teachers, but they should have had trained and armed people. There wasn't a single person there who could have stopped the shooter. I'm really shocked that the gun-free zone sign didn't make him just turn around and take up knitting instead.



#148 skiizim

skiizim

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:48 AM

People can just snap one day, it just all depends on what is going in said persons life. This story hits a little close to home since I'm a UPS delivery driver it's tragic in it's own and the school shooting also hits real close since the wife is a school teacher, lets not bring in the facts that I have children too.

I find it a bit discerning that some of you can just blow this off as a random act of violence. It could have been you, your family or even a close friend or even somebody that even frequents these boards. I'm not going to argue the statistics because they are there but if there is something that can be done all possibilities should be open.

#149 The Crotch

The Crotch

    I was famous and I was powerful.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:59 AM

Probably not teachers, but they should have had trained and armed people. There wasn't a single person there who could have stopped the shooter. I'm really shocked that the gun-free zone sign didn't make him just turn around and take up knitting instead.

Real talk: do you advocate armed security personnel at every American school?

Posted Image


#150 panzerfaust

panzerfaust

Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:34 AM

I thought all public schools had an armed, plain clothes officer. At least mine did, and I think it's a must.

UjCoyFa.png