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Next Xbox May or May Not Require Online/Allow Used Games (Update 4/25/13)


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#121 cancerman1120

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:36 AM

Actually watched the full keynote. Of the 22 minute long video, he spent maybe a minute talking about it. It was part of an overall spiel about plans and the nature of games. Thinking of things like Achievements, when you see a friend with one, your head starts going, and you start thinking "hey, he has that, I want that, I can get it", and so you make plans to get it. And then you start to act on it. And so on.

Where demos came in - he provided a chart showing Xbox360 game unit sales for the first six months (Data courtesy of EEDAR). The bottom line was no demo or trailer. Second lowest was demo only. The line after that was demo and trailer. Then, roughly twice as high, was the line for trailer only.

His rationale came down to the Plan idea. The trailer plants the idea in your head that you want to play it, and so you have a plan in your head to play it. A demo allows a user to sate that plan, and so they no longer plan to play the game. Trailer only creates the plan, and forces them to buy the game if they want to act on their plan.


Hey thanks for the info. When taken in that context I can see his point more clearly. I just went back to that article. It seems it was edited or something because there are now videos and what seems to be more info there. Strange.

#122 cancerman1120

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:42 AM

Not trying to restart an argument but after the release of Aliens today I have to bring up how crazy eliminating used games are again. This is a game that already has a season pass for $30 yet the $60 game looks like a steaming pile of crap. We have argued and argued about game development and cost a lot here but this is a perfect example of a company trying to monetize the player instead of putting out a decent game. If this game could not be traded back in people would be so upset. I know not every game is a winner but when a game this bad from a good developer has a $30 season pass it just stinks.

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#123 WRXKayaker

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:04 PM

Not trying to restart an argument but after the release of Aliens today I have to bring up how crazy eliminating used games are again. This is a game that already has a season pass for $30 yet the $60 game looks like a steaming pile of crap. We have argued and argued about game development and cost a lot here but this is a perfect example of a company trying to monetize the player instead of putting out a decent game. If this game could not be traded back in people would be so upset. I know not every game is a winner but when a game this bad from a good developer has a $30 season pass it just stinks.

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I was really hoping Gearbox rinsed the Duke Nukem stink off their hands and brought a little of that Borderlands magic to Aliens...looks like that is not the case.

I completely agree with your entire statement. I like to give new IP a chance, but I do so knowing that if it ends up being a stinker I can always put it on e-bay and get some of my money back. Eliminating used games will bring no good to the industry. Gamers will compensate by buying fewer games in general, and they will also be less likely to take chances on new IP. Most of them will stick to their tried and true franchises. If gamers are taking fewer chances on new IP, then developers/publishers will also be less likely to take a chance on releasing a new IP. All we will be left with is a new Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Resident Evil, and Madden year in and year out.

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#124 kill3r7

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:03 PM

This is all speculation.

I will never understand why people get all riled up over unsubstantiated rumors. If either M$ or Sony do in fact require always on DRM then vote with your wallets. The message will inevitably sink in.

#125 dmaul1114

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

I don't think it will have that much impact on new IPs.

The average gamer is already mostly just buying new games in the franchises they play every year like CoD, Madden etc. already.

For new IPs, they tend to not sell well until they launch with good reviews and pick up good word of mouth. Used games going away doesn't really affect that. People would just be waiting for price drops/sales rather than buying them for $60 at launch like the do the latest CoD or Halo. And that's better for developers than people buying it discounted used.

The other factor to consider is that we're moving toward more games being download only. That will be a cheaper way for developers, especially smaller ones, to introduce new IPs. If they sell well and build a following off a shorter $10-15 XBLA/PSN game then they can make the sequel a big budget retail release.

Again, the only thing I'd dislike if used games go away is not being able to sell/trade my discs since I don't replay games. I have no issues buying things at launch and just waiting for drops/sales on the stuff I don't want to pay $60 for. But honestly, with my declining interest in games, if it's not worth $60 to me it's probably not something I'm interested in enough to buy in the first place. The main way I take advantage of sales is just saving money on games I didn't have time to play around launch by buying them later.

I'm more perturbed by the rumor the new Xbox will require Kinect. I have no interest in using that crap, and it doesn't work well in my condo as I don't quite have the space for it (got a Kinect system free from MS for my hacking debacle a year or so ago--ditched it pretty quickly). So it's just more useless crap to clutter up my home theater that I won't use--and I worry that they'll shoe horn motion controls or voice commands into games if every system is required to have it hooked up to work.

But as the post above notes, all this stuff is rumor. So only time will tell. I'm mixed on whether I'll buy another console after this current generation even if nothing changes with DRM, used games etc., so no real sense in my worrying about it anyway. I'll see what comes out and weight whether I'm gaming enough to buy another console after the first price drop on the new systems.

#126 Indiana

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

The always online no used games is a dead end if you ask me. I can't imagine they will have tons of happy users if that happens.

My other concern is that the rumored specs are pretty wimpy so far. Let's hope they deliver some custom cpu that is a big jump form the Xbox 360 or PS3. If they do not make some major leaps I can't imagine they will get lots of people to drop $400 or $500 on a new console.

I'm expecting all games to be native 1080P and a scaler chip that would allow for the newer 2160P tvs to look awesome as well.

#127 dmaul1114

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:51 PM

I do think that will be an issue. The power leap will probably be the least we've seen. Games in 1080p, higher and more stable frame rates etc. But I don't expect the next gen consoles to blow the current games out of the water graphically.

That's part of why I'm not much interested. There's just not a need for a new generation of consoles right now. Current games aren't feeling or looking dated, or starting to have more slowdown etc. as they push things more etc. as we somtimes saw late in prior generations.

#128 kill3r7

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:07 PM

I do think that will be an issue. The power leap will probably be the least we've seen. Games in 1080p, higher and more stable frame rates etc. But I don't expect the next gen consoles to blow the current games out of the water graphically.

That's part of why I'm not much interested. There's just not a need for a new generation of consoles right now. Current games aren't feeling or looking dated, or starting to have more slowdown etc. as they push things more etc. as we somtimes saw late in prior generations.


Agreed. Hence why next gen consoles are going to try and reinvent the wheel with things such as built in Kinect or some other gimmick.

IMO once 4K and OLED TVs become the norm then we will see the next graphical leap. For the time being any increase in graphical and processing power will only be marginal.

#129 ShockandAww

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:23 PM

I do think that will be an issue. The power leap will probably be the least we've seen. Games in 1080p, higher and more stable frame rates etc. But I don't expect the next gen consoles to blow the current games out of the water graphically.

That's part of why I'm not much interested. There's just not a need for a new generation of consoles right now. Current games aren't feeling or looking dated, or starting to have more slowdown etc. as they push things more etc. as we somtimes saw late in prior generations.


I disagree that current gen games don't look dated. Most do imo, and many look downright bad. Granted many still look adequate when you look at the higher profile graphics games like God Of War or Uncharted or Gears and what not, but there is still a long, long way to go.

Now I don't think the very first next gen games are going to necessarily blow any minds, but if you look ahead 4 years I think we'll mostly all find it difficult to appreciate the graphics of this gen when compared to next gen. I think soon enough when comparing this gen to next gen, you'll see much more clarity and detail that will be pretty unmistakeably "next gen".

Watch something like the Agni's Philosophy demo. We're not there yet, but someday we will be.

#130 Spokker

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:47 AM

This is all speculation.

I will never understand why people get all riled up over unsubstantiated rumors. If either M$ or Sony do in fact require always on DRM then vote with your wallets. The message will inevitably sink in.

Most people are not riled up nor are they falling for unsubstantiated rumors. People are probably aware that it's a rumor and are talking about what they would think if it were true.

#131 htz

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:04 AM

I was really hoping Gearbox rinsed the Duke Nukem stink off their hands and brought a little of that Borderlands magic to Aliens...looks like that is not the case.

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#132 kill3r7

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:28 AM

Most people are not riled up nor are they falling for unsubstantiated rumors. People are probably aware that it's a rumor and are talking about what they would think if it were true.


Whatever you say bud. At the end of the day there seem to be a whole lot of people "debating" or arguing over unsubstantiated rumors.

#133 ShockandAww

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:15 AM

At the end of the day there seem to be a whole lot of people "debating" or arguing over unsubstantiated rumors.


I'm not sure what you expect or why you'd expect anything different. We're going off of whatever information there is right now. And while yes the current info is mostly just rumors, I think we should definitely be talking/arguing/debating any rumors of interest even if they do turn out to be completely false.

#134 Spokker

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:17 AM

Whatever you say bud. At the end of the day there seem to be a whole lot of people "debating" or arguing over unsubstantiated rumors.


Correct. They are. You see something negative in that and I see something positive in that.

#135 dmaul1114

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

IMO once 4K and OLED TVs become the norm then we will see the next graphical leap. For the time being any increase in graphical and processing power will only be marginal.


That's a long ways off--if ever. It took ages to get people on board with HDTVs. 3DTVs have been even slower and really only spreading as it's hard to buy a decent big screen that doesn't have 3D these days--but adoption of 3D blurays players and discs is still slow, there's hardly any 3D content on cable/satellite etc.

So I don't think 4K will be much of selling point as most people aren't a/v enthusiasts and are happy with their TV, aren't going to upgrade from Bluray to a new 4K format etc. And in any case gaming always lags behind--i.e. how few games are in 1080p today.

OLED I do look forward to a bit--I'm hoping that will match or exceed the picture quality of plasmas without the drawbacks that led me to return plasmas the two times I bought them (most recently last month)--image retention and buzzing on bright scenes. Love the plasma picture, but those two things drove me nuts both times I tried one. Hope LED can give me that and not IR from hours of ESPN and games with HUDs, and no buzzing that I seem extra sensitive to hearing and being annoyed by.


I disagree that current gen games don't look dated. Most do imo, and many look downright bad. Granted many still look adequate when you look at the higher profile graphics games like God Of War or Uncharted or Gears and what not, but there is still a long, long way to go.


Fair points. I really only play major releases like that, and I don't care that much about graphics, so I'm just no interested at all in upgrading to any new consoles. I'm also just in a burned out on gaming phase and more thinking of whether to clear our the backlog or just ditch a couple consoles and games, so maybe I'll feel differently down the road.

#136 ElwoodCuse

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:44 AM

There is never going to be widespread digital distribution or 4K in this country. Our broadband infrastructure is laughable. 4K? Good luck getting anything on your TV that's even 1080p. Digital distribution? Not happening as long as more people live within driving distance of a Walmart than have access to high-speed internet.
But when his drinking and lusting and his hunger for power became known to more and more people, the demands to do something about this outrageous man became louder and louder.

#137 Leaptrade

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:48 PM

Correct. They are. You see something negative in that and I see something positive in that.


The good thing is that if the console makers were even considering going this route, at least they'll hear all the outcry and hopefully think twice before they move forward.

#138 62t

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

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#139 iamsmart

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:14 PM

Destiny requires an internet connection to work.

http://www.eurogamer...nection-to-work


Well... yeah. It's an MMO.

#140 Indiana

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:22 AM

There is never going to be widespread digital distribution or 4K in this country. Our broadband infrastructure is laughable. 4K? Good luck getting anything on your TV that's even 1080p. Digital distribution? Not happening as long as more people live within driving distance of a Walmart than have access to high-speed internet.



Well When the Xbox 360 came out there were not a ton of people with HD TVs in 2005. I agree that 4K tvs will not have the same uptake in homes as the HDTVs did but if the console makers do not include an upscaling chip in their systems to output to 4K I think we are going to find that in 5 to 7 years many homes will have 4K because tv prices will fall in price and many 10 year old HDTVs will have failed and need to be replaced. Without the ability to upscale to 4k I have a feeling everything will look dated just like when I play the PS2 or Xbox on an HDTV.

Edited by Indiana, 18 February 2013 - 01:19 PM.


#141 ElwoodCuse

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:35 AM

4K is the next 3D. No one wants it. No one cares about it. No one is making content for it. Game companies aren't going to support a technology that a tiny, tiny minority of people can use. You need a huge, huge screen to even notice the extra detail.
But when his drinking and lusting and his hunger for power became known to more and more people, the demands to do something about this outrageous man became louder and louder.

#142 dmaul1114

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

Yep it's just for videophile nerds with huge home theater set ups. 1080p sets will dominate for a long time like SD sets did. 4K will be a niche thing for videophiles with best case adoption scenario being on par with Laserdisc

People don't want to upgrade tvs again or rebuy movies after upgrading DVDs to Blurays (for those that even cared to do that).

#143 SkarEffect

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:27 PM

Well... yeah. It's an MMO.


It's funny because they claim it's not a MMO.

#144 htz

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:57 PM

http://www.theverge....-required-rumor

Didn't want to bump this old thread but more information is coming out showing MS had or have plans to block used games.
I have a feeling they will go through with this and can still disable the DRM via firmware update if the next xbox is hurting badly in sales.

#145 6er

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:49 PM

http://www.theverge....-required-rumor

Didn't want to bump this old thread but more information is coming out showing MS had or have plans to block used games.
I have a feeling they will go through with this and can still disable the DRM via firmware update if the next xbox is hurting badly in sales.


IGN said their sources confirmed it the.info

#146 FellOpenIan

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:14 AM

I wonder if people are just reading too much into the "always on, always connected" wording.

I mean the Wii, PS3, and 360 all either remain "always on" in a standby mode or "always connected" in the sense that they can enable/disable the NIC in said standby mode. Hell launch Wiis fried because of standby, the PS3 can turn itself on and download stuff, and the 360 will happily charge a USB device while the system is off.

Not that it couldn't be nefarious either way but the existing consoles aren't much different in the above example.
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#147 cancerman1120

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:29 AM

http://www.theverge....-required-rumor

Didn't want to bump this old thread but more information is coming out showing MS had or have plans to block used games.
I have a feeling they will go through with this and can still disable the DRM via firmware update if the next xbox is hurting badly in sales.


Yeah the no used games will be a deal breaker for me. I do not mind mandatory installs since I do that now but with games getting larger I cannot imagine what size the HD will have to be. At least 500GB. If the always on is a DRM thing also then it is dead dead dead to me. I own both systems now and planned on only having one next generation. Right now MS is making the choice easy. Hopefully when they finally reveal it all these things get squashed. After seeing the Sony conference you would think MS has to change their strategy but what do I know.

#148 xtreme_Zr2

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:34 AM

With the huge DRM launch problem that SimCity had, I hope MS is listening closely to how the community reacted. I read the IGN article today and its bad timing considering the SimCity launch last week.

They are already pushing it with the MS Office 365 license. We'll put it out on disc AND this year long license based format and see what happens. Eventually, then we'll quit publishing the discs all together. Full control of the distribution channel.

Full disclosure: 5 year XBL member, never wanted/needed to buy a ps3. But if they actually do confirm no used games when they reveal, I'll be switching to Sony, whenever I decide to upgrade.

#149 62t

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:11 AM

I am more concern that every game will need to be install

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#150 elessar123

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:26 AM

...and the 360 will happily charge a USB device while the system is off.


FYI, that doesn't mean the 360 is on. As in, they can enable USB charging without powering the CPU/GPU.