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2012 Election Thread


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#1 IRHari

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:07 PM

Let's start with the breaking announcement:

http://www.washingto...161d_story.html

Paul Ryan is Romney’s pick for vice presidential nominee

NORFOLK — Mitt Romney has selected Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin as his vice presidental running mate and will make the long-awaited announcement here Saturday morning.

Romney’s campaign formally alerted supporters at 7 a.m. via an iPhone app that the seven-term congressman would be the Republican vice presidential nominee. Minutes later, the campaign sent out a release calling the Romney and Ryan “America’s comeback team.”

By selecting Ryan, Romney has made a potentially bold but risky move to reset the dynamics of the presidential election. He has chosen the intellectual heart of the movement within the GOP to slash deficits and signals a desire to place the nation’s looming fiscal challenges at the center of the campaign’s final months.

Romney will formally introduce Ryan as his new partner at a rally in the key swing state of Virginia--appearing with the congressman on the USS Wisconsin in Norfolk, a not-so-subtle nod to the pick.

Already, the campaign has unveiled a new Web site www.RomneyRyan.comredirecting readers to the Romney campaign’s home page.

By selecting the Wisconsin wonk and seven-term congressman, Romney offers voters the starkest possible choice on how to address issues of spending and taxing by embracing Ryan’s single-minded focus on reducing the nation’s debt without raising taxes by dramatically altering Americans’ relationship to their government.

It is a fight Democrats have savored, believing the details of Ryan’s budget will turn off voters and persuade them that Democrats offer a fairer path to reduced deficits through a combination of spending cuts and higher taxes on the wealthy.

Ryan’s plan to overhaul Medicare is particularly controversial and will now play a key role in critical swing states with large retiree populations, most notably Florida, where Romney and Ryan are scheduled to campaign on Monday.

While Romney’s pick does not replicate the surprise jolt of Arizona Sen. John McCain’s choice of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin four years ago, Ryan is nonetheless a splashier pick than several other contenders considered safer options.

Two others who were high on Romney’s short list of VP contenders — former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty and Ohio Sen. Rob Portman — were informed in recent days that they would not be on the ticket, according to two Republican sources. Both were scheduled for other events on Saturday.

Ryan will likely energize a GOP base that sought a campaign with a clear vision for the country and not just one focused on criticizing President Obama.

Ryan got a strong boost over the past few days from conservatives, with editorials pushing his candidacy in the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard and the National Review.

But the pick could offer Democrats a boost as well, allowing them to fully link Romney to a Ryan spending plan they are convinced is deeply unpopular. It could also focus attention on government spending at the expense of discussion about how to jump-start the economy.

As chairman of the House Budget Committee, it fell to Ryan to convert the new GOP majority’s government-cutting promises into a detailed legislative blueprint following the 2010 midterm election.

The result was Ryan's “Path to Prosperity,” versions of which were adopted by the GOP House in 2011 and 2012. The plans call for balancing the budget by 2040 through deep cuts to virtually every social program, from Medicaid to food stamps to Pell Grants.

Ryan has proposed raising the Medicare eligibility age to 67 and capping spending on those who turn 65 after 2023. In the future, seniors would be offered a set amount with which to purchase private health insurance on newly created federal exchanges.

Democrats charge the plan would essentially end Medicare by turning it into a voucher program. Ryan counters it would save the popular program by altering its unsustainble growth rate.

For many voters unfamiliar with the debate, Ryan will likely start out as an unknown. According to recent polls, reviews of Ryan tilt positive in Wisconsin and nationally, but not overwhelmingly so.

And large numbers, even in his home state don’t know enough about him to rate him favorably or unfavorably. In a CNN poll this week, Rubio was the top pick for No. 2 among Republicans and GOP-leaning independents, followed by Ryan and Christie tied at 16 percent.

A 42-year old ice fishing and fitness enthusiast, Ryan could use his boyish charm to offer digs at Obama not weighted with negativity.

Yet, after beginning his career as a congressional staffer, Ryan is also a creature of the deeply unpopular institution. His ability to campaign in the glare of the national spotlight remains untested.


First question: after years of saying we need a Prez with executive experience, why would Romney pick Ryan, who has zero executive experience?

EDIT (11/7/2012): Did anyone see a lot of Paul Ryan after that debate? It was kind of easy to forget about him. So much for that game changing pick that would make the campaign be about big ideas.

This is probably the best source I found to track the results:

http://www.politico....President/2012/

Thanks for playing! Nice job voting/dissuading others from voting!

Edited by IRHari, 07 November 2012 - 05:09 AM.
updated for electionday

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#2 ID2006

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:23 PM

He's Romney; changing his mind about things is what he does. If he didn't do something like this, his base might start to suspect an alien impostor, and you know how they feel about aliens, much less voting for one. I'm half joking.

#3 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:26 PM

Typical Republican party. Limited government talk, pres and VP who supported TARP, Medicare Part D, and budget proposals that raise the debt ceiling for nearly 40 years.

Even on their own criteria, they fail.

Paul Ryan:

-Voted YES on TARP (2008)
-Voted YES on Economic Stimulus HR 5140 (2008)
-Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
-Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
-Voted YES on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients (Medicare Part D). (Nov 2003)
-Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
-Voted YES on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. (Oct 2008)
-Voted YES on Head Start Act (2007)
-Voted YES on No Child Left Behind Act (2001)

Won't even mention his drug warrioring and foreign adventurism.
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#4 IRHari

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:37 PM

Romney thought he could make this election like previous elections:

'the economy sucks so throw out the guy in charge and vote for me'

Yet even with the crappy economy Obama has been leading him, although narrowly.

Now instead of making it a referendum on Obama's stewardship on the economy now it'll partly be a referendum on the Ryan budget.
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#5 dohdough

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:42 PM

Paul Ryan...Andrew Ryan...coincidence? Would you kindly?

#6 mykevermin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:48 PM

Romney thought he could make this election like previous elections:

'the economy sucks so throw out the guy in charge and vote for me'

Yet even with the crappy economy Obama has been leading him, although narrowly.

Now instead of making it a referendum on Obama's stewardship on the economy now it'll partly be a referendum on the Ryan budget.


It's a gamble for sure, because in selecting Ryan, the GOP just gave Obama his first electoral votes in the form of Florida (unless they're pulling some voter suppression bs like Ohio and Pennsylvania).

But Ryan's scorched earth economics does appeal to the austerity hawks who still fear hyperinflation (a prediction that flies in the face of every possible bit of empirical data).

Typical Republican party. Limited government talk, pres and VP who supported TARP, Medicare Part D, and budget proposals that raise the debt ceiling for nearly 40 years.

Even on their own criteria, they fail.

Paul Ryan:

-Voted YES on TARP (2008)
-Voted YES on Economic Stimulus HR 5140 (2008)
-Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
-Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
-Voted YES on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients (Medicare Part D). (Nov 2003)
-Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
-Voted YES on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. (Oct 2008)
-Voted YES on Head Start Act (2007)
-Voted YES on No Child Left Behind Act (2001)

Won't even mention his drug warrioring and foreign adventurism.


Facts. Surely you know they don't matter.
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#7 RedvsBlue

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:49 PM

Thought I'd check on Wikipedia for his criticisms... he doesn't have any criticism! (Might have something to do with the 100+ edits that have been done on his page today alone, and its only 8:45 am central, someone's had a busy evening...)

#8 detectiveconan16

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:00 PM

The most important thing that the media should be excited about is that he drove the Wienermobile for a living.

I actually don't really care, Romney's trying to hard not to alienate his supporters with every vote, that he's basically taken on an Anti-Biden as his running mate. Besides, it's going to be more of the same issues, where the platform involves telling people that social services, health care, infrastructure, things that can actually help them will hurt them a lot because the rich aren't getting a fair break.

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#9 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:03 PM

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#10 Clak

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:07 PM

Really didn't expect Ryan. It makes sense,just unexpected. It's funny, some of those criticisms are positives to me, like the unemployment benefits.
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#11 Cantatus

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:25 PM

First question: after years of saying we need a Prez with executive experience, why would Romney pick Ryan, who has zero executive experience?


Probably the same reason McCain criticized Obama's lack of experience then picked a running mate with even less experience. What that reason is though, I'm not entirely sure. It's bad if they do it, but ok if you do? That really seems to be a running theme in politics today, so let's go with that.

It's a gamble for sure, because in selecting Ryan, the GOP just gave Obama his first electoral votes in the form of Florida (unless they're pulling some voter suppression bs like Ohio and Pennsylvania).


Florida has been in the news because of the "voter purge" they've been doing to supposedly root out "noncitizen" voters. Thing is, it's had so many problems with actual voters being removed that the Department of Justice has recently gotten involved.

#12 Dark Rider

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:42 PM

Not an awful choice. Thank God we didn't have another 'Palin Incident'.

#13 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:12 PM

I'm sure Ryan is on record somewhere with an apologetic interview, stating that they had lost their way on the spending issue, himself included. Just trust us this time.

Biden and Obama are both going to have to learn the budget in and out, which will be somewhat difficult since the thing isnt coherent. I think sneaking the phrase Randian into the debate might be a good idea.

That would certainly be one good thing about a Romney administration - the debt will cease to matter and we can spend like crazy again.

#14 62t

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:30 PM

Ryan appeal to voters that won't vote for obama in the first place.

#15 mykevermin

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:53 PM

Florida has been in the news because of the "voter purge" they've been doing to supposedly root out "noncitizen" voters. Thing is, it's had so many problems with actual voters being removed that the Department of Justice has recently gotten involved.


Ohhh, right. Wasn't even Rick Scott purged from the rosters at one point?

Ryan appeal to voters that won't vote for obama in the first place.


Don't underestimate the GOP. There are a lot of Americans who aren't Republicans who buy into this austerity nonsense because it's not called out for as the voodoo economics (™ George H. W. Bush) that it is by the irresponsible "let's not call out flagrant lies by parties because then we'll be accused of being biased" media.

They hear the simpleton "American government = family with a credit card" metaphor, and that makes sense to them. Cut up the credit card, reign in spending, everything will begin to right itself.

It takes far more effort to look at what Ryan plans to do with his scorched-earth budget proposals in the name of austerity, realize he plans on destroying the middle and working class and not just destroying any safety net, but burning it with fire the first moment he can (with the cynical political ploy of not threatening current stakeholders, as evidenced in the "old people now can have medicare, but those who aren't current stakeholders are fucked" approach to medicare reform").

Couple all that with the recognition that Americans spend under 5 minutes, on average, considering who they will vote for and you have a perfect opportunity to get people who aren't conservative whackos on board the Paul Ryan austerity train.

They'll spend little time critiquing anything because "The Voice" is on. Or NFL.

The media is afraid to call it what it is because they're pussywhipped by the GOP.

The credit card metaphor is easily digestible and makes sense to people who won't think critically (i.e., those watching The Voice or NFL).

Bam! Republican suckerpunch means you lose!
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#16 dmaul1114

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 05:20 PM

Picking Ryan almost seems like throwing in the towel for me.

Especially in places like Florida. No way they win that state with it's large retiree population with a candidate that wants to turn Medicare into a voucher system and privatize social security (though he did drop the latter from his budget this year). So this tells me that the Romney campaign has totally written of Florida to the extent that they didn't even think picking Rubio could deliver the state.

And he's just not going to help with the moderate independents who are the key in a lot of the swing states. All he'll do is energize the tea party types, and those are largely irrelevant in the big swing states. Myke notes some cause for concern there. But this will just further energize the Obama negative ads as it's a ton of fuel for the fire to go after attacking medicare etc. and get the votes of people who see no more about the candidates than TV ads.

With Romney lagging pretty behind in polls currently I just don't see this VP pick making any difference.

Just reeks of the GOP more or less throwing in the towel and just wanting to keep the talks on tea party ideals for the next few months and into Obama's second term and have more hopes of things continuing to go bad economically and being able to get a real tea party ticket (Like Ryan/Cantor) elected in 2016.

#17 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:03 PM

You absolutely cant get complacent. The thing is still going to come down to a handful of voters in a handful of states. States that are riddled with voter ID, roll purging and the classics - voter caging and red shift.

Republicans REALLY do not like people voting.

#18 KingBroly

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:06 PM

Things will pick up post Convention when Romney is free to spend as much as he pleases. Then we'll see what he's really up to.
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#19 Dr Mario Kart

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:17 PM

I wonder if they could do an ad linking Ryan with Rand and then Rand with atheism

#20 KingBroly

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:21 PM

Probably not. Even then, it'd probably be something that goes over the heads of the electorate.
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#21 IAmTheCheapestGamer

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 06:51 PM

About the only thing I'm dreading the start of for this election season are those fucking robo calls. If I didn't give a shit about your message when you blare it over my tv speakers, why would I care now that you're calling my house to repeat the same shit? Yeah. Yeah. Obama is this and Romney is that. I get it. Now STFU and get off my damn phone.

There really needs to be a Do Not Call list for these things or a way for voters to join together and sue the PAC's and the individual campaigns to get them to stop these. It's harassment in my opinion.

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#22 detectiveconan16

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    Look at that deal. It's so great!

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 07:44 PM

No matter how hard you try, them Super Pacs will lobby against it. :( Fuck.

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#23 Spokker

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:50 AM

I mute all advertisements on TV and Youtube anyway (it's a reflex now), and I alt-tab if I'm watching on the PC, so they can spend as much unlimited money on ad campaigns as they want. I won't be seeing them.

As for radio I only listen to Internet radio, not FM/AM radio, and there are no campaign ads on the shows I listen to (Adam Corolla, Tom Leykis).

#24 UncleBob

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:05 AM

Paul Ryan:

-Voted YES on TARP (2008)
-Voted YES on Economic Stimulus HR 5140 (2008)
-Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
-Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
-Voted YES on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients (Medicare Part D). (Nov 2003)
-Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
-Voted YES on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. (Oct 2008)
-Voted YES on Head Start Act (2007)
-Voted YES on No Child Left Behind Act (2001)


Thank you for that list. Already used it elsewhere. Not that it matters - if the fools were going to vote for Romney before, nothing on that list is going to change their mind now.

I mute all advertisements on TV and Youtube anyway (it's a reflex now), and I alt-tab if I'm watching on the PC, so they can spend as much unlimited money on ad campaigns as they want. I won't be seeing them.


Yay DVR + Ad Block + not listening to the radio much.

Seriously, I didn't even KNOW there were ads on YouTube until I was at a friend's house and they wanted to show me a Youtube video. Seriously, it was that frickin' surprising to me...

The most ads I see at a time is if I go see a movie at the theater and make it in time to sit through the previews. Thankfully, they haven't started putting political ads in those yet. Except for the whole Bane/Bain thing. :D :D :D
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#25 IRHari

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 01:44 AM

Don't know why people see the Bane/Bain thing, the whole Ayn Rand aspect of TDKR seemed more obvious.
"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power." -Bill Clinton

#26 Spokker

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:15 AM

Seriously, I didn't even KNOW there were ads on YouTube until I was at a friend's house and they wanted to show me a Youtube video. Seriously, it was that frickin' surprising to me...

They have to make money somehow. But ignoring ads is easy.

You can even figure out which videos are going to have ads and which ones don't as the video starts to load based on how the video area looks. If it looks a certain way, I know to hit mute before the commercial even starts.

#27 mykevermin

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:48 AM

Just reeks of the GOP more or less throwing in the towel and just wanting to keep the talks on tea party ideals for the next few months and into Obama's second term and have more hopes of things continuing to go bad economically and being able to get a real tea party ticket (Like Ryan/Cantor) elected in 2016.


See, I can't see them as throwing in the towel because they see Ryan as a future big deal. If they wanted to "job someone out" (to use pro wrestling parlance, there are a number of people to choose from.

Dole/Kemp 1996 was an example of the GOP throwing in the towel before the convention. This, I don't see. They don't care if Romney goes down in flames, but they wouldn't willingly let Ryan go down with him.

Also, DMK's point w/r/t polling tricks, voter suppression, etc.
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#28 ElwoodCuse

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:41 AM

Just reeks of the GOP more or less throwing in the towel and just wanting to keep the talks on tea party ideals for the next few months and into Obama's second term and have more hopes of things continuing to go bad economically and being able to get a real tea party ticket (Like Ryan/Cantor) elected in 2016.


The Superpac/Fox crowd is going to be sick of supporting tea party wackos by 2016. The real winner here is someone like Chris Christie.
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#29 Feeding the Abscess

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:38 AM

Thank you for that list. Already used it elsewhere. Not that it matters - if the fools were going to vote for Romney before, nothing on that list is going to change their mind now.



Yay DVR + Ad Block + not listening to the radio much.

Seriously, I didn't even KNOW there were ads on YouTube until I was at a friend's house and they wanted to show me a Youtube video. Seriously, it was that frickin' surprising to me...

The most ads I see at a time is if I go see a movie at the theater and make it in time to sit through the previews. Thankfully, they haven't started putting political ads in those yet. Except for the whole Bane/Bain thing. :D :D :D


Np. Don't forget to mention that his "scorched earth" budget plan wouldn't balance until... 2040, as a best case scenario. And the debt ceiling would continue to be raised for a few years after that.
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#30 IAmTheCheapestGamer

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

They have to make money somehow. But ignoring ads is easy.

You can even figure out which videos are going to have ads and which ones don't as the video starts to load based on how the video area looks. If it looks a certain way, I know to hit mute before the commercial even starts.

I just have Google Chrome with Ad Block Plus, Ghostery and Do Not Track Plus all actively running. I haven't had a single ad pop up virtually anywhere I've gone on the internet in the last 6 months since I started using those extensions.:D

Now if only I could get the same for my phone to auto boot the telemarketing and robo calls.

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