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Shooting in Conn. School


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#1 UncleBob

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

http://www.latimes.c...0,3154787.story

At a televised news conference from Newtown, Conn., State Police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance refused to give an exact number pending notification of the families. Other reports place the number of dead at 27, including the children.


"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#2 camoor

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

Theres already a thread in OTF

#3 berzirk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:38 PM

I'm heavily pro-gun, but even I'm starting to feel like something's got to change. It sounds like these were murders by handgun, which is going to be near impossible to control more. Had it been an assualt rifle like the shooting 2hrs north of me in Portland, OR, then it's easier to get on board with that ban. Chris Rock may have been wiser than we understood when he suggested bullets should cost hundreds of dollars. Then I suppose you just have a bunch of rich people shooting up schools and malls.

Father of 3, drove by three elementary schools as part of my morning commute, and the idea of this being in my son's school couldn't leave my head.

Horrible, horrible news.

#4 Blaster man

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

Unfucking believable. I don't know what else can be said.

#5 dohdough

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:01 PM

Meh...OTT is mostly for RIP and prayers. Vs is actually the place to have a real discussion despite the redundant OP.

For instance, this is exactly why I'd rather live and have my kids grow up in the city because this kind of shit would never happen in the most ghetto of ghettos. I mean just check out the demographics of this town: http://en.wikipedia....ut#Demographics

#6 Purple Flames

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

This post on reddit summarizes my thoughts on the matter:

Okay, I'm going to say one thing about this absolutely sickening day. It's bound to offend the delicate sensibilities of some people here, but whatever. Let's do this.
Every time something like this happens, people of certain political persuasions pre-empt the gun control discussion by saying stuff like "Don't politicize this tragedy!" and "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!"
Frankly, however, I've had enough of that. It's impossible to end the perverse, unnatural gun culture that has pervaded this country since its very birth, but it's not hard to finally say enough is enough and legislate. There needs to be the tightest regulations possible on gun purchases, particularly assault weapons.

The gun lobby will fight anything and everything done in reaction to this, if any action is undertaken federally. But if there is one sector of our society that I feel entirely comfortable saying needs to be regulated to high heaven, this must be it, because people are dying. And now kids are. There are common sense laws on gun ownership in most westernized countries. When will we join them? How many people have to die all for a guy's right to act macho?

Now's about the time that someone in the back of the room shouts about their right to defend themselves. And while that sounds nice in a text box in a comment section, let's get real here. You're not trying to protect your family by claiming the right to lug around your AR-15. You're taking pictures of yourself wearing camo, holding a completely unnecessarily powerful weapon for a civilian to have, and putting them on Facebook to get some precious Likes. You're not protecting yourself. You're compensating for something.



#7 EdRyder

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:22 PM

Newtown has a number of local landmarks. Perhaps the most famous is the flagpole,

Clearly the place one might need an AR-15

#8 berzirk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

I think it's time to consider requiring all guns to be registered. I know the militia mouthbreathers will scream and yell, but at this point, I'm more worried about some fuckslap shooting up my kid's school, or a local mall, than I am about our government imposing martial law and establishing a dictatorship. I would have no problem with the government knowing what I legally own. That way if your firearm is stolen or missing, and you didn't report it, you also have significant responsibility in these situations.

#9 UncleBob

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

This post on reddit summarizes my thoughts on the matter:


While I disagree with the idea of *never* discussing the policies leading up to an event like this, I think it's entirely reasonable to stick with a cooling-off time so that decisions and discussions aren't based off emotion.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#10 cancerman1120

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

Exactly when do dead children stop being emotional? Just asking.
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#11 dohdough

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

I think it's time to consider requiring all guns to be registered. I know the militia mouthbreathers will scream and yell, but at this point, I'm more worried about some fuckslap shooting up my kid's school, or a local mall, than I am about our government imposing martial law and establishing a dictatorship. I would have no problem with the government knowing what I legally own. That way if your firearm is stolen or missing, and you didn't report it, you also have significant responsibility in these situations.

This is what I've been saying for years.

#12 GBAstar

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

This is what I've been saying for years.


I thought it was illegal to have an unregistered handgun. Is that not true? or does it vary state to state?

#13 EdRyder

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

The cooling off time is ultimately exactly why we finally need regulation. Gulliani was just on CNN talking about this yesterday.
Once more with the assumption that when someone is determined to mass murder people (paraphrasing him here) "Whether its with knives or poison they'll find a way".
Total BS
All these rampages prove it comes down to ease of use.

Ya know when we did have people poisoning Tylenol in the past , we made it harder for them to accomplish it. We put in the safety features so that if your tylenol was messed with , you'd at least know. We certainly didnt make it "impossible" for someone "determined" to poison people to be able to accomplish it , but the small deterrent was enough.
The determination sort of wears off when it isnt as easy as point and click

#14 winterice

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.

#15 berzirk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:46 PM

I thought it was illegal to have an unregistered handgun. Is that not true? or does it vary state to state?


It might vary by state, but the only registration happens when you buy a firearm through a business. For example, I legally purchased a shotgun from the chain Big 5. They call in to the state, run a background check, I get fingerprinted, fill out some forms, about 15-20 minutes later, I walk out the door with a shotty. Now, if I sell that to somebody that I believe is mentally healthy and over the age of 21, their ownership is unregistered, not required to be registered, and they can sell it again themselves.

If you have a concealed handgun, every state requires a permit for that, so in that sense, your right to carry concealed is registered, but the government would have no idea WHAT you were legally carrying. The only other form of "registration" is if you have a class 3 firearm (I think that's what it's called). That means things like fully auto weapons, silencers, short barralled shotguns. Then you need to pay a couple hundred bucks and get a "tax stamp" which says you can legally own that component or firearem.

Even more esoteric, some weapons that are very old are considered antiques, even if they still fire, so those are not treated the same as firearms. There are lots of laws, I would just argue that many are the "wrong" laws.

#16 Mooby

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:47 PM

Any call for gun control legislation presumes these acts are committed with guns obtained legally. That may or may not be the case. As the facts trickle in it's obvious this was premeditated as the man killed one of his family members then proceeded to drive all the way from New Jersey to Connecticut to bust into the school and start shooting up the place. Hard to imagine that someone who was hell bent on doing this wouldn't have gotten his hands on a gun one way or another.

Drugs are illegal but anyone who wants them can get them without much effort.

#17 berzirk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.


That's called a semi-automatic weapon, and those are what most guns available to the public are. 10 shots could happen very fast, and if your finger got tired after 10 shots, then it's probably time to put down the videogame controller because that's too taxing.



This is obviously an extreme, but anyone who has shot a few rounds can fire very quickly.

#18 dohdough

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

We should have a one pull one bullet law. It would make every gun have the same firing rate of a revolver. I've never shot a gun before but wouldn't the index finger be tired by the tenth or so bullet? Even if the index finger doesn't tired easily, I think the delay of having to pull the trigger every time would help.


Revolvers can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger and still considered "semi-automatic" meaning one bullet per pull. Anything more than that would be considered a select-fire automatic, meaning you can select between 1, 3, and rambo. These aren't the technical terms, but a little easier to understand.

What you're describing in regards to tiring is related to trigger pull weight and it isn't as tiring as you may think it is. I get bored after an hour of shooting, but that's because I'm spending half the time reloading mags, which is actually more exhausting.

The law of the land pretty much covers what you're saying.

#19 UncleBob

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:56 PM

Exactly when do dead children stop being emotional? Just asking.


Point taken.

However, at the very least, we could wait until the facts of the case are known so we don't have blowhards going off about violent rhetoric in politics or violence in entertainment that turns out to have played no role in the actual shooting, for example.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#20 dohdough

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

Any call for gun control legislation presumes these acts are committed with guns obtained legally. That may or may not be the case. As the facts trickle in it's obvious this was premeditated as the man killed one of his family members then proceeded to drive all the way from New Jersey to Connecticut to bust into the school and start shooting up the place. Hard to imagine that someone who was hell bent on doing this wouldn't have gotten his hands on a gun one way or another.

Drugs are illegal but anyone who wants them can get them without much effort.


There's something called the Chain of Custody. If someone along that line was negligent, then that needs to be dealt with.

#21 berzirk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:03 PM

Point taken.

However, at the very least, we could wait until the facts of the case are known so we don't have blowhards going off about violent rhetoric in politics or violence in entertainment that turns out to have played no role in the actual shooting, for example.


Ironically, I was watching my two youngest kids while my wife was at an appointment, my oldest was in his kindergarten classroom, and on Jim Rome, he broke from sports to talk about the shooting, and to speak on how hard it is to do a sports show and act like sports matter, when this kind of stuff breaks. It wasn't a rant on gun control, gun violence, or the second ammendment. I scanned through some other AM stations hoping to get more detailed news, and I land on Rush. He's condemning all the liberals for politicizing the shooting and using it for an agenda. Fuck sake. They don't even have a body count, and that fat fucking prescription pill popping cum sponge is politicizing it, by bitching about politization? I changed it quickly back to sports talk...so I could find out what was going on factually, and not with all kinds of baggage.

Let that settle in. Sports talk was delivering the news, "NEWS" radio was fucking it in the ass.

#22 Mooby

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

There's something called the Chain of Custody. If someone along that line was negligent, then that needs to be dealt with.



That's not practical when you have illegal arms being shipped in and out of this country on a daily basis.

#23 UncleBob

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

Ironically, I was watching my two youngest kids while my wife was at an appointment, my oldest was in his kindergarten classroom, and on Jim Rome, he broke from sports to talk about the shooting, and to speak on how hard it is to do a sports show and act like sports matter, when this kind of stuff breaks. It wasn't a rant on gun control, gun violence, or the second ammendment. I scanned through some other AM stations hoping to get more detailed news, and I land on Rush. He's condemning all the liberals for politicizing the shooting and using it for an agenda. Fuck sake. They don't even have a body count, and that fat fucking prescription pill popping cum sponge is politicizing it, by bitching about politization? I changed it quickly back to sports talk...so I could find out what was going on factually, and not with all kinds of baggage.

Let that settle in. Sports talk was delivering the news, "NEWS" radio was fucking it in the ass.


That's what you get for thinking Rush is "News Radio". =D
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#24 berzirk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

That's not practical when you have illegal arms being shipped in and out of this country on a daily basis.


No, I think that's precisely covered by doh's statement. Whether it's irresponsibly sending guns to Mexican drug cartels by Bush and Obama, or someone leaving their assault rifle on a park bench and having someone steal it, both should be dealt with criminally.

#25 Temporaryscars

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

This whole thing just makes me sick. How can someone kill children like that?



#26 detectiveconan16

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

This incident just brought tears to my eyes. And I'm going to be so pissed off about the fuckers in television who keep trumpeting out "now is not the time." How much more motherfuckers? How much more carnage?

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#27 dohdough

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

That's not practical when you have illegal arms being shipped in and out of this country on a daily basis.


I was pretty clear by what I meant and I already have it covered, but let's breakdown what you're saying instead of repeating myself.

What makes those guns "illegal" beyond you slapping that label on them?

#28 berzirk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

The other part that makes my blood boil in all of this, how low of a cretin do you have to be, to think to yourself as a member of the media, "Hey, I've got a grand idea! Quick cram a microphone in an 8 year old's face who just sat through mass murder." So, Jenny, after you saw your older brother get shot in the face, what were you thinking? Cover the event, get details. Don't exploit the kids in all of this. They respect victims of sex abuse, why can't we respect victims and witnessess of horrific violence.

#29 UncleBob

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

Yeah - I've seen some of those video clips as thumbnails on a couple of the news sites.

I'm not even going to give them the clicks.

Those kids should be seeing their families and psychiatrists. Not "reporters".
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it."

#30 The Crotch

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:22 PM

Ah, and we've already had News Media throwing around the Twitter/Facebook accounts of people with the same name as the shooter. Pretty good shit, but let's see if we can't up the class a little bit more?

Spoiler


Yes. Yes, thank you, American Family Association's "Director of Issues Analysis". Thank you for existing.

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