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Shopping Morality Thread


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#1 CheapyD

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:15 PM

The purpose of this thread is to act as a home to all discussion of shopping morals.
All discussions on this topic should take place here and not inside threads in the Video Game Deals forum.
Thank you for your cooperation.

#2 botticus

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:19 PM

:applause:

#3 wampa8jedi

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:32 PM

Does this mean that we are no longer allowed to point out fraudulant deals in the related threads? The most recent topic that spurred the creation of this thread is an illegal activity in the United States... surely we're still allowed to call people out on that, correct?

#4 Chacrana

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:32 PM

Good idea. Hopefully people will actually use this because it'd be nice to just lock away all the moral discussion here.

it was probably in there because I'm a flaming homosexual.


#5 fwacce

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:36 PM

After discussion with the moderation team, I am re-opening this thread.

Going forward, all discussion on shopping morality should be posted in the Shopping Morality Thread in the Deal Discussion forum. Let's keep this thread on topic please.



I think it's a huge mistake to do something like this. What you're essentially saying is that from here going forward all scam deals are okay and anyone who disagrees is going to be pushed off into a corner of the forums where they can't bother anyone. I know this is a deal site, but I would think there would have to be at least some consideration for doing things the right way.

Regardless, I'm sure you and the mods discussed it thoroughly, and it is your site. I trust your judgement, and I'm not being sarcastic. I won't post on these types of deals again unless you change your mind on the process.

#6 shipwreck

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:37 PM

Does this mean that we are no longer allowed to point out fraudulant deals in the related threads? The most recent topic that spurred the creation of this thread is an illegal activity in the United States... surely we're still allowed to call people out on that, correct?


No, the ads will be presented as they are. It is up to people to decide what to do with them. The fact that the Sears ad had a mistake in it does not justify it being removed from the deals forum. If a person chooses to pricematch this ad it is not CAG's place to say that they can not, it is the responsibility of the stores to be responsible for their own pricematch policies.

In the case of fraudulent coupons that were not distributed by companies, but were photoshopped, those will be deleted as is the current practice.
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#7 kurrptsenate

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:38 PM

hes saying theres a specific place for that kind of talk, and it doesnt belong in this thread

#8 shrike4242

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:39 PM

The Sears ad also had valid deals in it, such as King Kong for 360 @ $20, and the thread turned into a fixation on that single issue of the pricing mistake, which is why it was locked/moved.

Hopefully this thread will take a little time before it ends up with people throwing flames around.

#9 kurrptsenate

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:43 PM

if you have a problem with a "deal" or you dont think its morally correct, that is a personal decision. If you are pointing this out to another person, you are basically subject to your own criticism. If a store chooses to stand by their word, thats a personal decision made my the manager.

#10 botticus

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:48 PM

Bringing a quote over here from the newly opened thread so it doesn't start getting discussed there again:

I think it's a huge mistake to do something like this. What you're essentially saying is that from here going forward all scam deals are okay and anyone who disagrees is going to be pushed off into a corner of the forums where they can't bother anyone. I know this is a deal site, but I would think there would have to be at least some consideration for doing things the right way.

I understand what your objection is, but pricematching a mistake in an advertisement is hardly comparable to photoshopping an ad, which is most certainly a scam - in my opinion. There is a largely quantifiable difference between morality (opinion) and legality (fact). Unless we provide the mods with the ability to take on the moral judgement of the majority of CAG on every issue, it's rather difficult to police such things to everyone's satisfaction.

What if Sears hadn't caught the mistake yet, and therefore did not have signs posted stating the correction, which would then require them to honor the price? And you have to keep in mind that stores always have the right to deny a pricematch for any reason.

I didn't find this worth the effort to exploit for profit, but if I needed an HD, I certainly would have tried.

#11 kurrptsenate

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:56 PM

i only planned to get one as backup ya know. I dont see anything wrong with the error

#12 6669

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:01 PM

If you can get a store to honor a valid mistake like that, then I dont think its wrong. If you knowingly go up to an old lady and get multiple items with the intent to make a profit, then your a scumbag. I would admire it when a store honors they're mistakes though (unlike BB.com).
I also think its wrong to buy something cheap and return it for store credit worth considerably more than what you paid for it.
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#13 Skylander7

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 03:38 PM

An advertised price is an advertised price, nuff said. If it's advertised through publication provided by a major retail chain, it's fair game for pricematching at that store (c'mon.. otherwise, it'd be false advertising) or another merchant. Deals are presented on CAG, and it's up to the user to decide what to do with them. For example: while hoarding is despised on here in line with the CAG philosophy of things, it isn't outlawed. As for fraudulant actions though (like Photoshopping a coupon, or making an outright false document), those are deleted for a reason. If a company discovered that such a document were distributed through CAG, the company could legally sue and force closure of the website (which could end with legal reprecussions upon CheapyD). Although it may seem unlikely to some, such things have happenned before throughout the history of the "internets".

I hate that something like this had to occur. I mean, I understand that as a user base grows, so will negative and positive aspects. There's a difference between deal discussion and personal attacks.. and the old CC thread turned into one of bashing individual's own morals and ethics. While I do not understand feeling overly guilty for making purchases via a price given for a good or service from a retail corporation via its own point of sale system that would easily take advantage of the uneducated consumer (especially in the realm of extended warranties), I don't think it's necessary to insult someone personally about it. Get your games (or don't, depending on the situation), discuss the deal, then close Firefox and be done with it.. go play an Atari or something.

I'm all for this thread.. hopefully it'll be great in terms of prevention and lowering some post counts in favor of containing more relevant info.

#14 cheapfrag

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:01 PM

It surprises me that some threads generate the "morals" discussion while other thread go unscathed by it. Is it a matter of how much $ is involved in the "deal"? The CC glitch and the Sears XBOX HD deals seem to have generated these discussions, yet every Best Buy $5 off PS2 games coupon that I have seen here never seem to be a cause of concern. The coupon says no copies, yet that's exactly what everyone is doing (including myself). Hell, I considered the CC PC game glitch to be on the same level (scam wise) as penny guides. We all know the stores aren't supposed to sell the guides for a penny but if you can find a cashier that lets it go for that, then you got lucky. It doesn't involve copying anything that says no copies, photoshopping anything to extend dates or price matching known price errors. And neither did the CC PC game glitch. In both cases you taking merchandise up to the cashier and letting the register/cashier do the rest.

#15 Strell

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:07 PM

Well, the next time someone photoshops a Best Buy coupon, I guess we'll just leave it be then, aye?


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#16 shipwreck

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:08 PM

Well, the next time someone photoshops a Best Buy coupon, I guess we'll just leave it be then, aye?


No, we delete those. See my post above.
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#17 Strell

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:09 PM

No, we delete those. See my post above.


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#18 lawdood

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:10 PM

I don't think most people had a problem with people attempting to go and price match the Sears ad at Sears or elsewhere, more power to them if they did and were able to get the HD, it was certain posters stating they were going to buy them at the low price and then attempt return them at another store for full price which upset people to begin with. That is committing outright fraud which shouldn't be tolerated. Also people bragging about how they took advantage of certain clerks or raised a ruckus to try and get the PM makes some of us ticked off. These people don't realize in the long run they're ruining it for all of us. Target no longer PM's, if people continue to act like a-holes in the stores in an attempt to take advantage of an obvious mistake ad, how long do you think it will be until other stores do the same? All ready Toys R Us has changed their policy regarding returns without a receipt, how soon until the rest follow suit because of people trying to commit fraud in situations like this?

It's great if you went to a couple stores, tried to PM this deal and got 1 or 2 of these HD's for yourself, another CAGer or even to throw one up on ebay. But for those who started a scene to get yours or hoarded as many as you could find just out of simple greed, I hope you're proud of who you are and as the stores continue to tighten their price matching and return policies I hope you don't bitch about it, since you're the cause of it. You aren't doing ANY of us a favor but your greedy little self.

#19 Roufuss

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:11 PM

Since Shippy is on, how are we going to deal with glitches, like the Circuit City PC game glitch that just happened? For those of you who don't know, it was in their ad last week as buy any PC game $19.99 or under, get one of equal value for free, however the register was glitched to allow you to get any PC game, regardless of value, as the free game ($50 games for free).

The thread on that got locked, in the future will those be allowed to stay? It still falls under the stores needing to catch their own mistakes (which they did, about 5 days after the fact), but the thread made on it got locked and moved to the deal graveyard while it was still active.

Similar threads taking advantage of price mistakes are kept going, we even have a whole thread devoted to getting guides for a penny when stores obviously aren't happy with it, it just seems odd to throw the glitches to the graveyard.

I called my lady friend last night and said my buddy had to beat off on my chest, she is kinda pissed at me, but it was the best idea I had all night, and I stand by it.



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#20 cheapfrag

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:11 PM

Well, the next time someone photoshops a Best Buy coupon, I guess we'll just leave it be then, aye?

I didn't say photoshopped coupons should be left on CAG - I just refered to "photoshopped" as an example of what was NOT done in other cases.

But really, how is a photoshopped coupon any different than a scan of a real coupon that says "no copies"?

#21 Strell

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:12 PM

I don't think most people had a problem with people attempting to go and price match the Sears ad at Sears or elsewhere, more power to them if they did and were able to get the HD, it was certain posters stating they were going to buy them at the low price and then attempt return them at another store for full price which upset people to begin with. That is committing outright fraud which shouldn't be tolerated. Also people bragging about how they took advantage of certain clerks or raised a ruckus to try and get the PM makes some of us ticked off. These people don't realize in the long run they're ruining it for all of us. Target no longer PM's, if people continue to act like a-holes in the stores in an attempt to take advantage of an obvious mistake ad, how long do you think it will be until other stores do the same? All ready Toys R Us has changed their policy regarding returns without a receipt, how soon until the rest follow suit because of people trying to commit fraud in situations like this?

It's great if you went to a couple stores, tried to PM this deal and got 1 or 2 of these HD's for yourself, another CAGer or even to throw one up on ebay. But for those who started a scene to get yours or hoarded as many as you could find just out of simple greed, I hope you're proud of who you are and as the stores continue to tighten their price matching and return policies I hope you don't bitch about it, since you're the cause of it. You aren't doing ANY of us a favor but you're greedy little self.


Dude, don't even start. I've said this sort of thing for the last 2 years, and all it's gotten me is a bunch of pantywaste idiots telling me I'm wrong, and "if you don't like it, don't post aobut it."

Some people just want to Fuck up the system later on down the line for every else, especially if it means a small short term gain for themselves.

Sadly, this is the basic framework of all corporation and government of the world.


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#22 Roufuss

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:14 PM

I didn't say photoshopped coupons should be left on CAG - I just refered to "photoshopped" as an example of what was NOT done in other cases.

But really, how is a photoshopped coupon any different than a scan of a real coupon that says "no copies"?


Yea, I don't get this either... mods are locking the threads on price mistakes and glitches, yet the ones with scans of a coupon are allowed to stay, even though the Playstation Underground Best Buy coupon wasn't meant to be digitally distrubuted. It just seemed a bit hypocritical.

I called my lady friend last night and said my buddy had to beat off on my chest, she is kinda pissed at me, but it was the best idea I had all night, and I stand by it.



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#23 Strell

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:15 PM

But really, how is a photoshopped coupon any different than a scan of a real coupon that says "no copies"?


I don't think ANY coupons should be printed out, EXCEPT for the official ones on a retailer's site, and since they have no control over how many you use over a period of time, that's the ONLY time it should be ok.

As to the second part of your question, honestly. You know the answer to that. Because a scan at least represents something originally, while a photoshop is directly meant to be fraudulent by changing details to the originator's advantage.

But as I've said, in both cases, I think neither should be done.

Now watch as I wait for the idiot train to tell me I'm being an asshole about this.


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#24 Pookymeister

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:18 PM

Yea, I don't get this either... mods are locking the threads on price mistakes and glitches, yet the ones with scans of a coupon are allowed to stay, even though the Playstation Underground Best Buy coupon wasn't meant to be digitally distrubuted. It just seemed a bit hypocritical.


It sounds like the reason they locked those were because of the morality posts that were flooding it, not the actual content of the deal - hence this thread here.


#25 shipwreck

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:20 PM

Since Shippy is on, how are we going to deal with glitches, like the Circuit City PC game glitch that just happened? For those of you who don't know, it was in their ad last week as buy any PC game $19.99 or under, get one of equal value for free, however the register was glitched to allow you to get any PC game, regardless of value, as the free game ($50 games for free).

The thread on that got locked, in the future will those be allowed to stay? It still falls under the stores needing to catch their own mistakes (which they did, about 5 days after the fact), but the thread made on it got locked and moved to the deal graveyard while it was still active.


The moderators will probably have to discuss those on an individual basis. This will never be an exact science, but we are just trying to find the best way of dealing with situations like this.

As for scanned coupons, those are allowed for a couple of different reasons. Often times the coupons are available online, but still say "No copies allowed". Well, that's kind of difficult then isn't it? Another reason to allow them is to show people what the coupon looks like so that they know what they are looking for. If people feel the need to try and print them out and use them in stores, well I think that should be up to them and up to the stores to police the policies on their coupons. Posting the coupons also allows for a way to validate that their is actually a coupon out there and that the deal exists. Otherwise, we would have to deal with a lot of people claiming that there are coupons for certain things that didn't exist.

As said before, though, fraudulent photoshop coupons will be deleted.
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#26 Roufuss

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:20 PM

It sounds like the reason they locked those were because of the morality posts that were flooding it, not the actual content of the deal - hence this thread here.


There was a second Sears misprint thread that had to have been immediately deleted, because I posted in it, left for awhile, and came back and it was gone.

Why lock a thread because of morality posts? A simple "Hey, cut it out, keep it to the deals or else" and deleting some posts would have sufficed, like it's done in countless other threads where talk about hoarding got out of control (any large clearance thread).

I called my lady friend last night and said my buddy had to beat off on my chest, she is kinda pissed at me, but it was the best idea I had all night, and I stand by it.



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#27 cheapfrag

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:23 PM

Now watch as I wait for the idiot train to tell me I'm being an asshole about this.


It's a difference in morals/opinions... you're entitled to yours as much as I'm entitled to mine. You're not a asshole. To be honest, even though I take advantage of these deals, I still feel it's questionable (read dishonest) and something I do NOT brag about to my son.

#28 Roufuss

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:24 PM

The moderators will probably have to discuss those on an individual basis. This will never be an exact science, but we are just trying to find the best way of dealing with situations like this.

As for scanned coupons, those are allowed for a couple of different reasons. Often times the coupons are available online, but still say "No copies allowed". Well, that's kind of difficult then isn't it? Another reason to allow them is to show people what the coupon looks like so that they know what they are looking for. If people feel the need to try and print them out and use them in stores, well I think that should be up to them and up to the stores to police the policies on their coupons. Posting the coupons also allows for a way to validate that their is actually a coupon out there and that the deal exists. Otherwise, we would have to deal with a lot of people claiming that there are coupons for certain things that didn't exist.


I see your point, but the fact is those coupons, unless distrubuted online, are not meant to be distrubuted digitally. Scanning them and allowing people to print them weren't the intended use of the coupon. If you really wanted to put them up "just for people to see what they look like" the poster can always paint over the barcode. The $5 off PSU Best Buy coupon was put online, then photoshopped to be easier to read / not so grainy and then a new scan was put up... Best Buy never intended for that to happen.

If stores should police themselves over coupons, then they should likewise police themselves over glitches, because only dumb cashiers give away $50 games for free when bought with a $3 game.

I'll put it down right now though that, like I said earlier, I'll use any coupon put on here (if its legit) and take part in any deal if it benefits me, I'm just pointing out some double standards.

I called my lady friend last night and said my buddy had to beat off on my chest, she is kinda pissed at me, but it was the best idea I had all night, and I stand by it.



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#29 Roufuss

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:29 PM

A new post so my point isn't lost... things on CAG are rarely black and white, they are mostly shades of grey.

White (good) - Price drops
Black (bad) - Fake coupons

Everything else is a shade of grey... it varies from deal to deal, and it's hard for mods to police it. As long as its not illegal, it should be left up on the site, as the stores should be policing themselves as Shipwreck put it.

I mean, some of the most popular things on this site like penny guides are a big shade of grey, as it's not store policy to allow those to leave, and it's all about finding a cashier who dosen't care, same with any shade of grey deal.

I called my lady friend last night and said my buddy had to beat off on my chest, she is kinda pissed at me, but it was the best idea I had all night, and I stand by it.



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#30 shipwreck

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 04:29 PM

I see your point, but the fact is those coupons, unless distrubuted online, are not meant to be distrubuted digitally. Scanning them and allowing people to print them weren't the intended use of the coupon. If you really wanted to put them up "just for people to see what they look like" the poster can always paint over the barcode.

If stores should police themselves over coupons, then they should likewise police themselves over glitches, because only dumb cashiers give away $50 games for free when bought with a $3 game.

I'll put it down right now though that, like I said earlier, I'll use any coupon put on here (if its legit) and take part in any deal if it benefits me, I'm just pointing out some double standards.


Life is full of double standards. And like I said, the glitch deals will have to be discussed among moderators. I understand what you are saying though and your feedback is appreciated.

Edit: And what you said about shades of gray is the exact way you have to look at the situation.
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