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The Star Trek III (Back from the Dead) Thread


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#271 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 04:47 PM

When I first saw Star Trek 6, I never suspected those two crewmates, Valeris, Admiral Cartwright, the Romulan Ambassador, General Chang and so on where all part of the Conspiracy to destroy the peace. Thank god for Kirk and crew to save the day :)

#272 lordwow

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 05:01 PM

In the original VI script, it was supposed to be Saavik, not Valeris, but Roddenbery thought it was out of character for her. I would have been more shocked if it was Saavik.
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#273 Purkeynator

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 05:22 PM

Anyone think they will still release TOS season 2&3 on HD-DVD?
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#274 ananag112

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 05:41 PM

I will wait for Star Trek HD on Xbox Live or Blu-Ray. HD-DVD seems to be dead now.
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#275 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 05:49 PM

Anyone think they will still release TOS season 2&3 on HD-DVD?


They are still committed to releasing season 2 on HD-DVD this year. However if Toshiba folds and surrenders the HD-DVD format, we could see Paramount canceling the HD-DVD version and release just the blue ray version. I am sure they (paramount) are currently quietly developing the BR version as we speak.

#276 keithp

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 06:22 PM

In the original VI script, it was supposed to be Saavik, not Valeris, but Roddenbery thought it was out of character for her. I would have been more shocked if it was Saavik.


Roddenberry chose....wisely....

#277 GuilewasNK

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 01:37 AM

Hey all, good news. My sister told me CBS.com has all of TOS available for free to view!!

http://www.cbs.com/c...video/video.php

Have fun! 8-)

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#278 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:09 AM

Hey all, good news. My sister told me CBS.com has all of TOS available for free to view!!

http://www.cbs.com/c...video/video.php

Have fun! 8-)


This is not the remastered 2.0 episodes... :bomb:

#279 GuilewasNK

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:19 AM

This is not the remastered 2.0 episodes... :bomb:


Nah, but it's still FREE STAR TREK!! :bouncy:

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#280 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:34 AM

Nah, but it's still FREE STAR TREK!! :bouncy:


I really wish my local My20 would keep a constant schedule because I am lucky if I catch a 2.0 episode at a good time. :bomb: Oh well I am going to have to catch it on blue ray some time down the road.


I also wish Spike brought back TNG in the afternoon, instead of Voyager...

#281 JolietJake

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 02:51 AM

City on the edge of forever = win

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#282 blandstalker

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 06:28 PM

Okay, I'm a month out of date. Sue me.

Roddenberry chose....wisely....


I could not disagree more, and it's this reason more than anything else that ST VI will never be my favorite ST movie, despite having an awful lot of great stuff in it.

Real drama is never about easy choices. One of the things that makes Star Trek II such a powerful movie is that there are truly tough choices with no easy outs, and these choices lead to consequences that are even tougher.

By turning Saavik, a character that everyone knows and likes (at least in Star Trek II) into a similar character that no one has ever seen before, the dramatic impact of her divided loyalties is completely lost.

Rather than see Saavik's betrayal as a devestating blow and Spock's involuntary mind-meld as a truly horrific violation, it's just part of the plot. She's one of the Bad Guys ™ and we can totally dismiss her and everyone in league with her.

Does anyone mourn Valeris? No, not really. Does anyone really think about how a character could have the right philosophy but come to a tragically wrong conclusion? Maybe a little. But in the end, who cares about her? We don't have to, since we've never seen her before, never will again, and can dismiss her as being wrong. Our universe and worldview is not shaken

Roddenberry is correct that Saavik would never intentionally hurt Kirk or Spock, but this provides the rationale why "Valeris" works both sides of the fence, attempting to help Kirk and Spock when she can. What he really didn't like is that a much-loved character would turn out to be "bad".

This is kind of funny, occurring the way it does in ST VI. Much of Star Trek depends on taking contemporary human problems and packaging them up in an alien race. Starfleet and the Federation are supposed to be the evolved, gold standard of what humanity can become if we confront our problems.

ST VI pretty much demolished this. Klingons can be good. Starfleet types can be bad. What important is not what was done in the past, but where people go together in the future. This is not so much a repudiation of the Roddenberry model, but an acknowledgment that real life is messy and that boundaries are not always so easily packaged and compartmentalized.

It's therefore ironic that we have this message that it's not who you are but what you do that's important, and that you must look past the prejudices of the past, and yet Roddenberry couldn't let go of the idea that Saavik, because she's Starfleet and people like her, could ever be on the wrong side of a moral issue or point of view. Too bad. Much of the Star Trek that was filmed after ST VI probably would have been a lot more interesting had Roddenberry lost this argument.

Thus, by turning Saavik into Valeris, the movie undermines its own message. It's easy to say "they're wrong and we're right", but it's not at all easy to confront the idea that even well-intentioned people that you know and like can still be stuck in the past and will do surprising things to stay there.
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#283 lordwow

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:55 PM

Okay, I'm a month out of date. Sue me.



I could not disagree more, and it's this reason more than anything else that ST VI will never be my favorite ST movie, despite having an awful lot of great stuff in it.

Real drama is never about easy choices. One of the things that makes Star Trek II such a powerful movie is that there are truly tough choices with no easy outs, and these choices lead to consequences that are even tougher.

By turning Saavik, a character that everyone knows and likes (at least in Star Trek II) into a similar character that no one has ever seen before, the dramatic impact of her divided loyalties is completely lost.

Rather than see Saavik's betrayal as a devestating blow and Spock's involuntary mind-meld as a truly horrific violation, it's just part of the plot. She's one of the Bad Guys ™ and we can totally dismiss her and everyone in league with her.

Does anyone mourn Valeris? No, not really. Does anyone really think about how a character could have the right philosophy but come to a tragically wrong conclusion? Maybe a little. But in the end, who cares about her? We don't have to, since we've never seen her before, never will again, and can dismiss her as being wrong. Our universe and worldview is not shaken

Roddenberry is correct that Saavik would never intentionally hurt Kirk or Spock, but this provides the rationale why "Valeris" works both sides of the fence, attempting to help Kirk and Spock when she can. What he really didn't like is that a much-loved character would turn out to be "bad".

This is kind of funny, occurring the way it does in ST VI. Much of Star Trek depends on taking contemporary human problems and packaging them up in an alien race. Starfleet and the Federation are supposed to be the evolved, gold standard of what humanity can become if we confront our problems.

ST VI pretty much demolished this. Klingons can be good. Starfleet types can be bad. What important is not what was done in the past, but where people go together in the future. This is not so much a repudiation of the Roddenberry model, but an acknowledgment that real life is messy and that boundaries are not always so easily packaged and compartmentalized.

It's therefore ironic that we have this message that it's not who you are but what you do that's important, and that you must look past the prejudices of the past, and yet Roddenberry couldn't let go of the idea that Saavik, because she's Starfleet and people like her, could ever be on the wrong side of a moral issue or point of view. Too bad. Much of the Star Trek that was filmed after ST VI probably would have been a lot more interesting had Roddenberry lost this argument.

Thus, by turning Saavik into Valeris, the movie undermines its own message. It's easy to say "they're wrong and we're right", but it's not at all easy to confront the idea that even well-intentioned people that you know and like can still be stuck in the past and will do surprising things to stay there.


I agree. Additionally, had the Saavik/Spock love-child story (which was original scripted in IV) been included on top of this, it would have been one of the most shocking twists in Trek.
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#284 ITDEFX

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 12:07 AM

Seems there is a internet fan film going around called Of Gods and Men with some of the actors from Voyager, DS9 and TOS. I have to check it out sometime. Looks interesting. I wonder how the hell did the producers of this film get

1-Paramounts approval.
2-The money to PAY the actors to play these roles.

#285 lordwow

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:08 AM

Seems there is a internet fan film going around called Of Gods and Men with some of the actors from Voyager, DS9 and TOS. I have to check it out sometime. Looks interesting. I wonder how the hell did the producers of this film get

1-Paramounts approval.
2-The money to PAY the actors to play these roles.


The guy who runs it is a real producer, I believe. He was shut down about a year ago, and it got a huge backlash from the Trek community, and all of the actors who were involved. The result was Paramount allowed him to continue to produce them as long as he wasn't turning a profit from them.

As far as paying the actors, I don't know if he is. It's not a requirement on web video, like it is on an indie film or whatnot.
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#286 JolietJake

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 02:13 AM

I watched one of those, couldn't get into it really. Looked at least as cheesy as the TOS, if not more so.

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#287 blandstalker

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 03:54 PM

Courtesy of CNN: Abrams aims to reinvent 'Trek' world

The most interesting bits for me were:

"The whole point was to try to make this movie for fans of movies, not fans of 'Star Trek,' necessarily," Abrams said. "If you're a fan, we've got one of the writers who's a devout Trekker, so we were able to make sure we were serving the people who are completely enamored with 'Star Trek.' But we are not making the movie for that contingent alone.
"You can't really make a movie for them. As soon as you start to guess what you think they are going to want to see, you're in trouble. You have to make the movie in many ways for what you want to see yourself, make a movie you believe in. Then you're not second-guessing an audience you don't really have an understanding of."

I'm actually at a loss for words. While I agree with the (somewhat vague) "movie you believe in" and the notion of the importance of making a movie that would be good whether or not it was Star Trek, I find it a little scary it's an audience he doesn't "really have an understanding of".

Is this the part where I mention that the last time we had a director that didn't know much about Trek and a writer who was a fan, we ended up with Nemesis?
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#288 GuilewasNK

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 11:03 PM

Star Trek the Next Generation is NOW ON SCI-FI!!!!

7pm to 11pm EST tonight. :D

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#289 ITDEFX

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 11:11 PM

Star Trek the Next Generation is NOW ON SCI-FI!!!!

7pm to 11pm EST tonight. :D


yea I was like oh snap!

only one problem.

low grade verizon sd analog signal on a s-video video signal less than dvd quality on a LCD 37 inch HDTV :cry:

*sniff*

it's about time sci-fi picked up the show.

Now that we are back on the first season of TNG... don't you find it strange how there were like 3-4 chief engineers during the first season?

#290 lordwow

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:09 AM

yea I was like oh snap!

only one problem.

low grade verizon sd analog signal on a s-video video signal less than dvd quality on a LCD 37 inch HDTV :cry:

*sniff*

it's about time sci-fi picked up the show.

Now that we are back on the first season of TNG... don't you find it strange how there were like 3-4 chief engineers during the first season?


I find it more strange how quickly LaForge got promoted from Lt (jg) to Lt. Cmdr.
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#291 ITDEFX

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:22 AM

I find it more strange how quickly LaForge got promoted from Lt (jg) to Lt. Cmdr.


or to chief engineer for that matter. I always thought that his actions in "The Arsenal of Freedom" (Playing right now on sci fi) was what earned him the promotion. I dunno, season 1 is so full of mistakes.. it wasn't til season 3 where things got better.

#292 JolietJake

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:22 AM

They had no idea who the Fuck the chief engineer was back then, i think thats why they tried to limit the time in engineering back then. Besides, every time there was an engineering problem, Geordi always ended up getting involved anyway,

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#293 ITDEFX

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:30 AM

I wonder if that chick who played Yar was kicking herself in the ass after TNG became so successful. Last movie I saw her in was in Deep Impact in 1998...I was like "Is that Tasha Yar?" Also wonder what would have happened if she stayed behind for the rest of the seasons instead of jumping ship.

#294 lordwow

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:33 AM

I wonder if that chick who played Yar was kicking herself in the ass after TNG became so successful. Last movie I saw her in was in Deep Impact in 1998...I was like "Is that Tasha Yar?" Also wonder what would have happened if she stayed behind for the rest of the seasons instead of jumping ship.


:rofl:

Worf probably would have become the helsmen.

At least she was a good sport about it and did the Yesterday's Enterprise and the cliffhanger later on. Those were superb guest appearances, and something you rarely see on other series.
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#295 ITDEFX

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:36 AM

:rofl:

Worf probably would have become the helsmen.

At least she was a good sport about it and did the Yesterday's Enterprise and the cliffhanger later on. Those were superb guest appearances, and something you rarely see on other series.



You forgot the Sela Episodes. That was a twist in the show that no one expected including myself. I was hoping for more encounters in later episodes and heck even in Nemesis, but alas no go :(

#296 lordwow

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 01:37 AM

You forgot the Sela Episodes. That was a twist in the show that no one expected including myself. I was hoping for more encounters in later episodes and heck even in Nemesis, but alas no go :(


That's what I meant by the cliffhanger :lol: And ya, she definitely should have been in Nemesis.
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#297 ITDEFX

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:02 AM

Speak of the devil, Yar's death episode by that tar monster is on now. Even that episode *hinted* that something could have come between Worf and Yar.

#298 JolietJake

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 02:37 AM

I seem to remember Yar and Worf sparing once and Yar kicking Worf's ass. Maybe it was with someone else.

Denise Croaby did those two Trek documentary movies, "Trekkies" i think they're called. She seems to still take an interest in being connected to the show, probably the only paying work she gets, which is ironic considering she chose to leave the show.

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#299 ITDEFX

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:47 AM

I seem to remember Yar and Worf sparing once and Yar kicking Worf's ass. Maybe it was with someone else.

Denise Croaby did those two Trek documentary movies, "Trekkies" i think they're called. She seems to still take an interest in being connected to the show, probably the only paying work she gets, which is ironic considering she chose to leave the show.


Only Patrick Stward, Michael Dorn and maybe Brent Spiner managed to save there acting careers post TNG. Everyone else has been so so afterwards. You know after all these years I have realized how many pounds Troy gained over the seasons. She looked amazing with her hair down and that bright blue dress in the 3rd season.

#300 JolietJake

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 03:54 AM

my favorite troy uniform i think was the gray and pink one, was made out of some kinda thin spandex or something. :drool:

Once they stuck her in a normal uniform, that show lost any and all sex appeal.:lol:

Has anyone else noticed how many discovery channel narrations have been done by trek actors?

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