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The Star Trek III (Back from the Dead) Thread


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#991 CaptainKirk

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:37 PM

its sad how fast the Blu-Ray feature films (1-6) and (Next Gen) went 60% off, good for my wallet, bad for my appreciation of the series

#992 Javery

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 02:01 AM

LOL I forgot Data was dead. He's not really though, right? Nemesis was a bad dream if I remember correctly...

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#993 johnnypark

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:37 AM

LOL I forgot Data was dead. He's not really though, right? Nemesis was a bad dream if I remember correctly...


Yeah... I enjoyed Nemesis and don't quite understand all the flack it gets, but the ending with Data was totally unnecessary. I guess for the final TNG film, it was a bit underwhelming, just felt like a high-budget, long episode, but I certainly didn't hate it.
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#994 CaptainKirk

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 04:17 AM

LOL I forgot Data was dead. He's not really though, right? Nemesis was a bad dream if I remember correctly...


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#995 dothog

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 06:36 AM

Yeah... I enjoyed Nemesis and don't quite understand all the flack it gets.


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#996 Will

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:48 AM

Saw this on George Takei's facebook page and thought Id pass it along-

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#997 TheCochese

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 12:58 PM

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Meh. Something for the fanbois to bitch about.

#998 Friend of Sonic

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 09:10 AM

You can say that, but that whole scene was unnecessary and stupid, like a lot of Nemesis.
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#999 KingDox

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:27 AM

I just started to watch enterprise and damn I am really enjoying it. I just finished season 1 and am now said that there are only 3 seasons total.

#1000 supermodestmouse

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:33 PM

I have really gotten into TNG despite not being a very big Star Trek fan in the past. I've been watching episode by episode and am now somewhere in season 4. I have a question that my friends (who are bigger Trekkies than I) and I have been having a hard time figuring out though:

If 2 federation starships were heading toward each other, both with full power to shields, would they collide? Would the shields act like bubbles and they bounce off each other? Would the shields meld into one massive shield and then the starships collide?

Let's say they're running on quarter impulse power or just kind of drifting toward one another, not warp 9 or anything like that.
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#1001 blandstalker

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:13 PM

If 2 federation starships were heading toward each other, both with full power to shields, would they collide? Would the shields act like bubbles and they bounce off each other? Would the shields meld into one massive shield and then the starships collide?

Let's say they're running on quarter impulse power or just kind of drifting toward one another, not warp 9 or anything like that.


My gut feeling is that they would bounce off each other and not take damage. However, the technique of ramming has been brought up several times, and I don't think the ships doing the ramming have ever dropped their shields.

Consulting Wikipedia:

The Making of Star Trek stated that shields are force fields similar in nature to the navigational deflector. The force shield totally envelops the ship.

That provides evidence for bouncing.

Memory Alpha says :

When shields are "up," or energized at a high level, most matter or energy that comes into contact with the shields will be harmlessly deflected away.

Also evidence for bouncing.

However, Star Wars vs. Star Trek has a bunch of sourced stuff on its site that point in the other direction:

A shielded GCS cannot withstand a physical impact sufficient to accelerate its entire mass to a few kilometres per second (source: The Naked Now, TNG)

GCS is (I assume) Galaxy Class Starship

The Naked Now had a chunk of exploding star coming at the Enterprise. I don't remember the size (it would matter if it was several times bigger than the Enterprise or the same size) but if the only criteria is that the physical impact accelerate the mass to kilometers per second, anything but the slowest moving ships would collide and not bounce.

Small physical impactors will actually bounce off a Federation shield.(source: The Hunted, TNG)

And, while this doesn't prove that large ones wouldn't bounce, it certainly implies it.

So I guess the evidence points to collision, not bouncing. Of course, if we wanted a way out, we could invent a technobabble reason -- perhaps two Federation ships would have the same shield harmonics/frequencies, which would cause them to bounce instead of collide.

After all, the most important question is: what does the plot need?
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#1002 blandstalker

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 02:21 PM

Meh. Something for the fanbois to bitch about.


Have you seen Mr. Plinkett's review of Nemesis? (It's 38 minutes, but it's a better time investment than, say, watching Nemesis again) The car chase was dumb enough on its own, but it was inserted into Nemesis because Patrick Stewart likes cars and let the writer know in no uncertain terms that he'd be happier with the script if he could be driving a dune buggy. Seriously. That's why it's in the movie.

So this entire sequence, which has nothing to do with established Star Trek and flies in the face of logic (why would you have a space ATV when you have a shuttlecraft?), was put in the movie by an actor because he wanted to film one of his hobbies.

I lost a little respect for Stewart when I found that out. It's one thing to lobby for your interests when they make sense in the story -- I don't think anyone would object to Picard reciting Shakespeare. It's quite another when they help turn an already stupid movie into an even bigger cinematic turd.

Of course, the balance of what Stewart to Star Trek is so overwhelmingly positive that it's just best to ignore the couple of times he made viewers suffer because of his personal likes. And it's yet another reason to pretend that Nemesis never happened.
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#1003 TheCochese

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:06 PM

have you seen mr. Plinkett's review of nemesis? (it's 38 minutes, but it's a better time investment than, say, watching nemesis again) the car chase was dumb enough on its own, but it was inserted into nemesis because patrick stewart likes cars and let the writer know in no uncertain terms that he'd be happier with the script if he could be driving a dune buggy. Seriously. That's why it's in the movie.

So this entire sequence, which has nothing to do with established star trek and flies in the face of logic (why would you have a space atv when you have a shuttlecraft?), was put in the movie by an actor because he wanted to film one of his hobbies.

I lost a little respect for stewart when i found that out. It's one thing to lobby for your interests when they make sense in the story -- i don't think anyone would object to picard reciting shakespeare. It's quite another when they help turn an already stupid movie into an even bigger cinematic turd.

Of course, the balance of what stewart to star trek is so overwhelmingly positive that it's just best to ignore the couple of times he made viewers suffer because of his personal likes. And it's yet another reason to pretend that nemesis never happened.


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#1004 TheCochese

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:08 PM

You can say that, but that whole scene was unnecessary and stupid, like a lot of Nemesis.


I find it funny that people bitch about that and not replacing Data with a tard. Or bitching about that part first. I preferred it to random transporter beaming or a bunch of random walking. Provided a bit of humor, too.

If you're bitching about the movie in general, it's such a small part of what's wrong with it that it's hard for me to get worked up over it.

#1005 Friend of Sonic

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:49 PM

I find it funny that people bitch about that and not replacing Data with a tard. Or bitching about that part first. I preferred it to random transporter beaming or a bunch of random walking. Provided a bit of humor, too.

If you're bitching about the movie in general, it's such a small part of what's wrong with it that it's hard for me to get worked up over it.

I'm not worked up about it. It's a dumb scene. I'm allowed to express my opinion on it without it being construed as "AWW MY GAAH WORSE MOVIE EVAR"
I also didn't excuse the rest of the movie. The whole movie was pretty stupid, and insulting as a whole.
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#1006 TheCochese

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:00 PM

You in general, not you in specific.

I thought it was lazy, not stupid.

#1007 dohdough

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:14 PM

I just started to watch enterprise and damn I am really enjoying it. I just finished season 1 and am now said that there are only 3 seasons total.

Very underrated series. Last season was great.

I have really gotten into TNG despite not being a very big Star Trek fan in the past. I've been watching episode by episode and am now somewhere in season 4. I have a question that my friends (who are bigger Trekkies than I) and I have been having a hard time figuring out though:

If 2 federation starships were heading toward each other, both with full power to shields, would they collide? Would the shields act like bubbles and they bounce off each other? Would the shields meld into one massive shield and then the starships collide?

Let's say they're running on quarter impulse power or just kind of drifting toward one another, not warp 9 or anything like that.

If they were emitting at the same frequency, it would be as if they weren't there and the ships would collide. If they were at different frequencies(and they should be), they would overload on impact and the ships would collide. Thanks for playing. :D

#1008 Friend of Sonic

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:21 PM

You in general, not you in specific.

I thought it was lazy, not stupid.

I feel you. I'll agree to it being lazy, but I also think it was stupid. To each his own though. 8-)
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#1009 keithp

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:13 AM

Apparently Del Torro is out.

In other news, Robocop, aka Peter Weller is in!

#1010 TheCochese

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:55 AM

Sulu is wise.



#1011 dothog

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:04 AM

I'll agree to it being lazy, but I also think it was stupid.


It was lazy and stupid. Cochese's point about it being a drop in the lazy/stupid bucket is well taken, but still: it's a goddamn dune buggy in Star Trek. Thematically it's just something that shouldn't be there.

If you're in a ST thread to hold everything to a summer action flick standard, then sure, it's just a dune buggy, what's the big deal? But if you've been with ST long enough, then your expectations are as much scifi as they are action. And that's where things like the dune buggy stand out. The fact that it somehow passed the smell test is evidence of how removed everyone involved was from the process of making a compelling ST movie.

I'm well aware of the fact that there's a litany of offenses in the TNG episodes alone to bicker over the suspension of disbelief, but it's a DUNE BUGGY. Don't act like it isn't a dune buggy. It was a dune buggy.

Not a ship, not a ship, not a ship. DUNE BUGGY.

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#1012 TheCochese

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

I think it's one of those things where we'd like to see them go full nerd all the time, but you're not likely to get a movie (or even TV show) made like that. I view it as a plot device. Otherwise, you probably have to cut out the entire sequence of them finding retardo Data. I don't see them being able to do it in another way that wouldn't leave the audience bored.

I think in Hollywood, you'd rather have a dumb audience than no audience at all.

But perhaps I'm weird. I enjoyed Insurrection.

#1013 blandstalker

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 02:59 PM

I think it's one of those things where we'd like to see them go full nerd all the time, but you're not likely to get a movie (or even TV show) made like that. I view it as a plot device. Otherwise, you probably have to cut out the entire sequence of them finding retardo Data. I don't see them being able to do it in another way that wouldn't leave the audience bored.


Shuttlecraft fight. I don't think we've ever seen an in-atmosphere extended shuttlecraft dogfight. Or, for that matter, why does Decoy Data have to be on a planet, anyway? He could be in space, on a torpedo, in an anomaly, orbiting Saturn, riding a Doomsday machine, pooped out by Galactus...the possibilities are endless.

What would have been better than a space dune buggy? Just about anything. It's bad, but like dothog says, it's worse because they didn't even try to make it fit or make sense. I'd rather have Patrick Stewart masturbate on camera because even though I don't want to see that either, it would at least have been a little more honest.

But perhaps I'm weird. I enjoyed Insurrection.


Insurrection was a middling TNG episode. It's worst quality was that it just didn't try all that hard. But it also didn't fail all that hard. I vastly prefer Insurrection to the parade of stupid and insulting that is Nemesis.
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#1014 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:26 PM

That's why I loved DS9's space battle scenes. We'd had these huge ships like the Enterprise for so long that just sat there and fired at each other, it was awesome to see the Defiant dog fighting it out.
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#1015 Javery

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:35 PM

Just watched "The Royale" last night. I love that episode for some reason. It's kind of creepy.

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#1016 dothog

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 05:30 PM

I vastly prefer Insurrection to the parade of stupid and insulting that is Nemesis.


I don't like either, but if I had to pick one I'd go with Nemesis for Tom Hardy's performance. He was wasted on that film, when I saw it I immediately felt bad that they wasted some young actor's enthusiasm on a shitty movie. Dude has gravitas in that film, whether you like it or not you gotta admit that he's working hard with what they gave him.

Not to say one's better than the other, I just feel like Shinzon had the most potential for an actual ST movie.

I'm also biased against F. Murray Abraham, anytime he's in something he just feels completely out-of-place to me. The only things I've ever liked him in were that prison movie with Magnum and an episode of Bored to Death.
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#1017 RedvsBlue

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 05:39 PM

I don't like either, but if I had to pick one I'd go with Nemesis for Tom Hardy's performance. He was wasted on that film, when I saw it I immediately felt bad that they wasted some young actor's enthusiasm on a shitty movie. Dude has gravitas in that film, whether you like it or not you gotta admit that he's working hard with what they gave him.

Not to say one's better than the other, I just feel like Shinzon had the most potential for an actual ST movie.

I'm also biased against F. Murray Abraham, anytime he's in something he just feels completely out-of-place to me. The only things I've ever liked him in were that prison movie with Magnum and an episode of Bored to Death.


Agreed, Shinzon and Hardy were the best parts of that movie. Dude, literally, and figuratively, went toe to toe with Patrick Stewart and won.

#1018 dothog

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 05:58 PM

Agreed, Shinzon and Hardy were the best parts of that movie. Dude, literally, and figuratively, went toe to toe with Patrick Stewart and won.


I think that's what kills about the TNG movies, you realize that they had a lot of blown opportunities, whether it's bits of ideas, good performances from the non-regular leads, or just the cash they sunk into them. People blame Rick Berman -- I'm there with them -- but it seems to me it probably comes back to the crew and the producer's handling of the crew.

The TNG cast were just entirely too comfortable with their characters, in a way the TOS cast wasn't. Maybe it's because the dynamic among the TOS cast was different, what with Shatner being Shatner. I don't know what.

But the fact that some of the TNG cast could get to a place with their character set in a TREK IN SPACE where they say to the producer or director, "I feel like my character should be driving a dune buggy in this scene" says a lot to me. Any normal person who has watched an episode of TOS or TNG past the opening credits would have had the sense to respond, "Religion and currency are old concepts, we have space travel and goddamn matter transporters. A dune buggy here would be about as sensible as a pogo stick. Stick to the page, y'all." Instead Berman replies, "Dune buggy? Just what the show's been missing! Shit yeah, let's get a dune buggy in here, boys."

That's the long way of bitching that I think the TNG movies feel not just stupid, but kind of willfully negligent, like they know they're not trying that hard but Fuck it, we made a bunch of TNG episodes and now we have to make movies like the TOS guys did.

EDIT: And of course while I'm kind of including First Contact in there, I still like First Contact, it's a definite guilty pleasure. James Cromwell and Alfre Woodard aren't guilty pleasures, they're genuinely good. It's the rest of it that's a guilty pleasure (another Borg threat, the ridiculous Queen/Data thing, etc.). It's clearly not aiming for scifi as much as TNG fan service, and IMO it worked, dammit.

Also, off-topic, but I still think Alfre Woodard would've made a better Laura Roslin in BSG than the redhead. It's too bad it didn't go to her.
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#1019 Clak

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:44 PM

I still think they screwed up not including Q in any of the movies. They could have done damn near anything with him considering his power, but nothing. Instead out of 4 movies only 1 had a threat from the show, the others had new made up races/threats which were never in the show.
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#1020 TheCochese

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:01 PM

First world problems.