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The Star Trek III (Back from the Dead) Thread


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#1261 Clak

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 03:28 PM

They didn't usually show the tricorder displays that often though. The early sets will probably look horrible. All those early planetary sets were just awful, like the early episode with the flying drone robots.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

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#1262 davo1224

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 05:21 PM

Something that's always disappointed me is how despite the dire consequences that are about to unfold, the show will just go to credits usually instead. I get that with TNG it wasn't supposed to episodic and there was a certain humor in "Well we just made things worse, let's be out" but DS9 can't move to another location so they're usually forced to deal with things.

I think endings have always been a weak point for Star Trek TV series in general. Anti-climactic is probably the best term to use. Especially given that a lot of multi-episode story arcs used to end near the beginning of a season.

#1263 Clak

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:04 PM

I guess VOY probably had the most definitive ending. They were trying to get home, they did, the end. TNG and even DS9 didn't really have an endgame goal.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1264 Friend of Sonic

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:09 PM

No end game goal for DS9? You wouldn't consider the war ending, Dukat dying, and hell even Sisko's ascension to becoming a prophet end goals?
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#1265 davo1224

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:38 PM

Fuck ton of spoilers in that post, but then again they're more than 10 years old at this point LOL.

#1266 ITDEFX

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:56 PM

They didn't usually show the tricorder displays that often though. The early sets will probably look horrible. All those early planetary sets were just awful, like the early episode with the flying drone robots.


I read somewhere that someone brought up the cardboard block outs on the rear display stations on the bridge and some areas of the ship if they were going to be replaced by cg and the answer was NO...something about it's part of the star trek legacy....either that or someone forgot to mention that during the make over lol. Those things always bothered me when I first saw it during it's original run...so if we noticed that during the SD viewing..it's going to show up even more in the HD viewing.


I guess VOY probably had the most definitive ending. They were trying to get home, they did, the end. TNG and even DS9 didn't really have an endgame goal.


Voyager's ending felt so slapped on....lets take out the borg and take a trans-warp tunnel home! Why the hell did they left Nelix on that Asteroid in the second to last episode? There was no point to that... Nelix already accepted the fact that he was going to the Alpha Quadrant with the rest of the crew.

No end game goal for DS9? You wouldn't consider the war ending, Dukat dying, and hell even Sisko's ascension to becoming a prophet end goals?


What bugs me about that ending is that Sisko was on the holosuite with everyone, gets a vision, hops on a runabout and stops Dukat...from what I recalled , it takes 5 hours to get to bajor from DS9 on impulse. I doubt he did an in system warp jump....but it was like what the hell where Dukat and Winn doing for 5 hours...looking at the fire? :P

Fuck ton of spoilers in that post, but then again they're more than 10 years old at this point LOL.


LOL. Seriously?

#1267 davo1224

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:56 PM

Well yes, I never watched the show on the first airing. It seemed like a boring-as-balls spinoff at first glance. Now that I'm watching it, I'm enjoying it a great deal. It just sort of leaves an unsatisfying feeling when major plot points are brushed under the rug. I'm talking about the Bajoran government conspiracy at the beginning of season two and the aggressive actions from the warring races that used the Harvesters in particular.

Granted, I know I shouldn't be getting into a discussion about something that might be ruined for me, but those are my thoughts. Hopefully, with the spoilers that FoS gave, it seems like things change for the better throughout the series.

#1268 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:08 AM

Well yes, I never watched the show on the first airing. It seemed like a boring-as-balls spinoff at first glance. Now that I'm watching it, I'm enjoying it a great deal. It just sort of leaves an unsatisfying feeling when major plot points are brushed under the rug. I'm talking about the Bajoran government conspiracy at the beginning of season two and the aggressive actions from the warring races that used the Harvesters in particular.

Granted, I know I shouldn't be getting into a discussion about something that might be ruined for me, but those are my thoughts. Hopefully, with the spoilers that FoS gave, it seems like things change for the better throughout the series.



Star Trek is known to leave shit unresolved all the time...either it's lazy writers or producers who want more screen/focus towards certain characters (like seven/doctor/janeway)... I was curious about the Kazon and the Vidians....but I guess after they left their space it's like they didn't care anymore. I know in Think Tank, it was mentioned that they cured the Vidians.

#1269 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:20 AM

So some more reviews are coming in with shots.
http://www.blu-rayde...ray-review.html

http://tng.trekcore....ray/#jul15shots

You know now that I have viewed some of the shots, I am starting to think if each ship is a separately filmed shot, the planet(s), and the stars, if you look carefully at this shot:
http://tng.trekcore....NG-S1_BD_04.jpg
you can see each element has various level of film grain...the stars should not have film grain at all. When redoing all these shots, it is very easy for them to replace the original stars with something more cg. However the background stars looks grainy as well...which leads me to suspect that there is an artificial grain layer that has been applied to the new HD masters to distract the viewers from noticing the different levels of grain..

#1270 Clak

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:01 AM

No end game goal for DS9? You wouldn't consider the war ending, Dukat dying, and hell even Sisko's ascension to becoming a prophet end goals?

No, because those weren't stated goals when the show began. Even TNG had "to explore new life and civilizations." DS9 really had no "mission" so to speak, aside from administrating the station and I guess protecting Bajor.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1271 TheCochese

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:45 PM

Not to break away from ITDEFX's ST:TNG BD S1 thread, but I'll wait until season three comes out before I consider it. That's when everything really meshed for me...visuals, plot, acting...that season saved the show, IMO.

Unfortunately I skipped out on DS9 right before it got interesting with the war. My bad.

#1272 Clak

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 01:34 PM

Yeah, TNG, DS9, and VOY always seem to take about 2-3 seasons to really hit their groove so to speak. Maybe less so with VOY.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1273 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:31 PM

Not to break away from ITDEFX's ST:TNG BD S1 thread, but I'll wait until season three comes out before I consider it. That's when everything really meshed for me...visuals, plot, acting...that season saved the show, IMO.

Unfortunately I skipped out on DS9 right before it got interesting with the war. My bad.



I really thought about doing this too when the first DVD release came out 10 years ago...skip season 1 and 2 and wait to buy season 3...but ended up getting all of them when they first came out.

I am glad it's going to be cheaper than the 100 bucks I paid for them back in the day.

#1274 Clak

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:51 PM

I'd probably start at season 3 and maybe go back and get 1 & 2 when they're cheaper. I wonder if these will end up on Netflix streaming.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1275 ITDEFX

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

I'd probably start at season 3 and maybe go back and get 1 & 2 when they're cheaper. I wonder if these will end up on Netflix streaming.


As I mentioned pages ago it would have been a really good idea for them to stream the sampler on netflix to see if there was a market for the HD remasters as a test....I doubt we will see it anytime soon.

#1276 RedvsBlue

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:47 PM

My problem with Voyager's ending wasn't so much that it was "slapped on" but rather that it could have come at any time. It wasn't really a "full circle" story. I mean yeah it was a nice wrap-up to their Borg interactions and all but had they found another caretaker or something along those lines it might have felt more complete as a story. The whole trans-warp conduit felt like just another season finale (and hell every 5th episode basically) in which they almost get home but not quite.

#1277 dafoomie

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:45 AM

The best part of the Voyager ending is that there was no more Voyager.

#1278 Tony Stark

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:52 AM

The best part of the Voyager ending is that there was no more Voyager.


its my second fav series...why do you people hate it?

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#1279 TheCochese

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:06 AM

its my second fav series...why do you people hate it?


What do you mean, 'you people?'

#1280 Tony Stark

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:11 AM

What do you mean, 'you people?'


any derogatory comment you wish :bouncy:

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#1281 dafoomie

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:31 AM

its my second fav series...why do you people hate it?

The writing, story, dialogue, characters, acting... They had some moments of decent in a sea of awful. Trust me, I watched the show every week during its original run.

#1282 TheCochese

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:40 AM

When the best part of the show was Jeri's boobs...yeah. That pretty much sums it up for me.

#1283 pacifickarma

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:02 AM

What do you mean, 'you people?'


What do YOU mean, "you people?"

#1284 ITDEFX

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:27 AM

When the best part of the show was Jeri's boobs...yeah. That pretty much sums it up for me.



I dunno...Kes was pretty cute ...didn't like her dry hair cut though. Makes you wonder what would they have done to her if she had stayed on passed season 3? I know she had a 7 year life span..but I am sure the writers would have figured out away to fix that.

Voyager was boring........I watch til the end..........not because of the show......but because it was star trek.

#1285 Clak

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:20 PM

What do YOU mean, "you people?"

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1286 Clak

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:23 PM

I dunno...Kes was pretty cute ...didn't like her dry hair cut though. Makes you wonder what would they have done to her if she had stayed on passed season 3? I know she had a 7 year life span..but I am sure the writers would have figured out away to fix that.

Voyager was boring........I watch til the end..........not because of the show......but because it was star trek.

It's funny, for a while it seemed all the Trek series followed a pattern. They all got better around season 3, they each lost a female cast member at some point (Tasha, Crusher for a while, Jadzia, Kes). Can anyone else think of anything?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift

#1287 ITDEFX

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:33 PM

you know what bothers me..........that damn scene in season 2 time squared...where they go to Riker's quarters to eat 1 EGG!! One fucking EGG for 5 people!! Looking at that scene it looks like the bowl gets filled with more eggs............everyone gets a good amount except worf..which he notices how jipped he gets with the amount that riker gives him.

#1288 blandstalker

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:37 PM

its my second fav series...why do you people hate it?


Since I could rag on Voyager all day, I'll keep it down.

Voyager is the junk food of Trek. Like comfort food, it's familiar and reassuring. Unlike comfort food, it is not made with love or quality ingredients, and none of it is satisfying or good for you. Voyager is leftover, warmed-over leavings and leftovers, pureed and reheated to make it appear palatable. It is empty calories or cafeteria slop, spooned out by people who don't want to be there and just want their paycheck.

"Blurst of times? You stupid monkey" -- The dreadful, inconsistent writing is all over the place, from the ridiculous number of times the ship was beaten to hell and then clean and shiny next week (despite no starbases anywhere) to over-reliance on reset-button plots and spatial anomalies. Also, Voyager's geography is ridiculous and the writers didn't even bother to keep track of things that blatantly didn't make sense. (I could list them -- how long have you got?)

Premise? What premise? Oh, we left that in the Alpha Quadrant -- Remember the Maquis? The show sure didn't. Their best idea -- a crew of divided loyalties forced to work together to overcome adversity -- was forgotten almost immediately. The Maquis were reduced to a cartoon villain in Seska, then dropped. Once per season, they were dragged out in a stupid episode that reminded everyone how little the writers cared. The whole idea was eventually discarded, along with any consequences. Voyager is not big on consequences.

For seven years, I was Chief Technobabble Officer -- If you weren't Janeway, Seven, or the Doctor, your character was totally shafted. While most series focus on a Big Three, Voyager just gave up. Tell me who Chakotay is. Harry Kim? Name three ways they are different without talking about physical attributes or job descriptions.

Even Tom Paris. Started off bad boy, ended up blancmange. It's less redemption and more "Well, we like Tom, so let's make him likeable and forget about anything problematic." What did he accomplish? Who is he, besides retro holodeck and 20th century fan?

Tuvok? Utterly wasted. Neelix? The Jar Jar of Trek. Kes? Stupid concept that went nowhere. Then we've got a handful of second-stringers that were little more than wallpaper and frequently forgotten.

Janeway, though. God I hate her. Insufferable, autocratic, and know-it-all, Janeway ran things like a dictator. She follows the Prime Directive, except when she doesn't. She tortured and nearly murdered a Starfleet officer, endangered the entire Alpha Quadrant recklessly with her shenanigans in "Endgame", and yet she'll disregard the safety of her crew or give up chances to go home for aliens of the week or even deadly enemies.

Janeway is Starfleet twisted beyond recognition. What's worse is that neither she nor the writers see it. Instead, they hold her up as right, even when she's contradicting her past behavior or doing something so egregiously reckless or wrong. It's complete cognitive dissonance. I can handle a character that has to make tough decisions or compromises, or is willing to bend or break the rules. But then don't tell us how morally right and upstanding she is.

(Aside: I love Kate Mulgrew, though. She never gave less than her best for turning such a hatable, inconsistent mess of a character into something watchable. Voyager the series would have imploded without her.)

And then there's Barbie of Borg. Putting aside the (all-but)naked grab for teenage viewership, Seven assimilated all the other characters on Voyager. She stole Tuvok's dialogue and mannerisms, B'Elanna's know-how and drive, Paris' rebelliousness, Harry's...never mind, Harry never had anything. Her nanoprobes were magic plot devices. They might has well have renamed the series Star Trek: Seven.

(Aside: I love Jeri Ryan, and not for her physical attributes. Like Mulgrew and Robert Picardo, she can work miracles with dumb material. It shows how bad much of Voyager's writing is that these three can only do so much for it.)

Speaking of Picardo, the Doctor was often fun, but the whole holographic rights thing was a can of worms. Largely borrowed from Data (including the ripoff of "Measure of a Man", it takes on quite a different spin when you can copy and paste holographic characters or change them on a whim by adding or deleting subroutines. This was so poorly thought out -- the series implied that everything holographic was a sentient being, or that even the most limited computer program could become sentient by adding a few subroutines. Star Trek often simplified concepts for TV, but this isn't even Sentience for Dummies -- it makes no sense, and invalidates the whole concept. There was an issue and an idea worth exploring here; like the rest of Voyager, it was facile, inconsistent, and poorly written.

Voyager was absolutely the worst for inventing character histories on the spot, just to be used in a single episode and then forgotten. Chakotay was a boxer then he was obsessed with Mars. Tom was obsessed with the ocean. B'Elanna was an adrenaline junkie. Harry was revealed to have a friend and secret crush who was on the ship for years that we never saw or heard mentioned.

It's A Highly Localized Distortion...Again -- Voyager is also notable for the amount of "borrowing" it does. It cannibalized TNG episodes left and right, and when it ran out of those, began remaking its own episodes. Even more notable is that many of these remakes sucked. Voyager couldn't even steal well. "Endgame" is "All Good Things" except crappy, disjointed, and nonsensical. Hell, Voyager is TNG except crappy, disjointed, and nonsensical.
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#1289 TheCochese

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:06 PM

Holy shit, that was awesome. I'll just cosign that.

#1290 Clak

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:15 PM

Don't forget when they decided that Seven should be a single mom, ugh. Though in hindsight, I guess that kinda makes her a MILF.:lol:
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” -Mark Twain

“When a great genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -Jonathon Swift