Navy ad Bad.

Justme8800

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It's odd, I don't see any other topics about this. Maybe everyone else who feels this way has ditched CAG. Maybe the mods are deleting critical topics... that wouldn't be very classy, so probably not. Anyways, does anyone else see my point of view here?

After listening to last week's show, I wrote this after emerging from the shock of my treasured CAGcast going corporate. I was hoping to some kind of response, but I guess it wasn't inflammatory enough for that kind of trouble. I didn't spend all that time writing this so it could be deleted with one click... feedback?



Wombat,

Hey, I'm just one of your many listeners, so I probably don't mean a lot to you, but I need a favor. Would you please let me know if/when the CAGcast stops with the advertisement segments from the US Navy? I'm asking you because I don't think Cheapy would have enough class to read this far into this message.

That's really all I need, but if you want to keep reading, I'll explain why.

When a first found this show on iTunes a year or so ago, I was thrilled! It was everything all the other garbage commercial gaming podcasts weren't; funny, low-key, identifiable, and interesting. The CAGcast had an indescribable personality to it that was integral to its distinctive brilliance. Over time, I started taking it for granted... every week, I set aside a couple hours to listen.

When Cheapy stopped taking his lessons, he started to sound a little less in touch, less of a friendly Man in Japan, and more of a blank talking head from cyberspace. (At least, him getting out less is the best reason I can come up with, who knows really.) He didn't seem to pull us into his world as much, but he still retained his professional hosting abilities well enough to be worth listening to. After all, you were still there with your brilliant humor and adept button-pushing skills.

I was hoping that Cheapy having a kid would rekindle his fascinating social appeal, and maybe it will, who knows. Not me, though. When I first turned on episode #95, I was greeted with, instead of a familiar retro tune, Cheapy's voice telling me about the Navy. "Damn," I thought, "is this some kind of joke?"

No joke, as it became apparent. After listening with rapt attention to the birthing story (which is exactly the sort of thing that makes this podcast stand head and shoulders above others), the topic of advertising came up. "Well, maybe it's unavoidable. Maybe they need to do this to keep the show on the air or something." As I listened to the reasoning, my hand crept closer to the pause button. It was just too painful to listen to. I held out until the actual ad came on, and then shut it off. I couldn't believe it. I gave it one more shot the next day, and finished the show.

Now here's the issue. Advertisements are everywhere in our media and we're quite desensitized to them, and skipping 30 seconds, while annoying, isn't a deal breaker. The advertisement/sponsored contests you've done are great, and fun for everyone. Even advertisements for games would be cool, at least they would be relevant (though not any better than other podcasts). No, the first problem here is the choice of advertisers.

Regardless on one's position on US foreign policy, it's hard to argue that military recruiters are among the worst sharks out there. They prey on kids who don't know any better, convincing them that it's worth it to go through some of the most horrifying experiences this world has to offer, just to meet quotas. (This gets even worse when you consider concerned wars have absolutely nothing to do with defending one's country, but that's a whole different can of worms.) Helping these sharks by advertising them on your show is an incredible insult to your audience. Somewhere along the lines someone thinks that a significant portion of your listeners are the sort of people who could be convinced to go through with this by a radio ad.

Of course, all that doesn't seem like much compared to the second problem here; Cheapy's motivation for going through with this. He's under the impression that by turning the CAGcast into some lowbrow trashy ad-riddled slut of a show like all the others, insiders will think highly of him? He's lost sight of what made his show great in the first place! He doesn't even need the money? If that's no object, then the least he could have done is found an advertiser worthy of his show. Please try to talk some sense into him, please. I'll be over listing to the Shipwrecks until this blows over... or at least until they sell out too.

Well, I think that's the most I can do to get my point across. Don't take this the wrong way, I still think you guys are great, but I can't find it in my heart to support a show sponsored by the military. If I haven't pissed you off beyond reconciliation yet, and you're still considering for your UGO intern, I'd love to help you out (I do have experience writing, including a full-length FAQ for GameFAQs). Good luck with whatever path you take.

Sincerely,
~~~~~~~~, aka "Justme8800"
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Who cares. I'm glad Cheapy is getting some advertising dollars. Being a father is expensive. :D[/quote]

Agreed. Honestly though, the ads are kind of weird for a Video Game podcast. I really don't care. There are ads everywhere. People watch TV where 1/3 of air time is commercials (Football games are ridiculous). At least these are only 30 second ads.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Who cares. I'm glad Cheapy is getting some advertising dollars. Being a father is expensive. :D[/quote]
Yeah, except maybe you missed the part where he's not even going to use the money. He just wants to look like a worthless commercial show, the kind that people like me don't watch because the ads are so rude and pointless... I think I said this already in the letter, didn't you read it?

[quote name='Richlough']Uhhh , maybe because there's a CAGcast thread for every show .[/quote]

This isn't about that particular show, it's about the ads in general. I couldn't find a "constructive critism about the CAGcast" forum, so this is the most on-topic place to put it, no?
 
Suck it up. Either listen and deal with it, or don't.

Personally, I'm glad Wombat is finally making some money off the CAGcast, since it was his idea anyway.
 
Wait. I don't get it. What exactely is going on? I stopped listening to the CAGcast at like #58 so excuse my ignorance.

EDIT: Ok I get it now :D
 
Yeah this sucks. Now instead of listening an entertaining hour and a half show for free, I have to help the people who've been entertaining me for free for years by listening to harmless Navy ads for 60 seconds (the third is at the very end). Boo! Next thing we'll see are banner ads on CAG advertising TV shows and movies like the Sci-Fi channel's new mini series based off the wizard of OZ starring Allen Cumming.
 
[quote name='PawnTakesKing']Suck it up. Either listen and deal with it, or don't.[/quote]
Ugh, I know that. This isn't about me, or at least I hope I'm not the only one who isn't listening until the navy ads stop. The point here is that the ads come with a cost, and that is that the CAGcast will lose some listeners on principle by running them. Unfortunately, this crowd would largely not be represented here, because they're all gone.

So long as Wombat and Cheapy are aware of this cost, it's their prerogative to keep doing it. I just want them to know why I've chosen to stop listening. Is that not fair?

[quote name='thorbahn3']Yeah this sucks. Now instead of listening an entertaining hour and a half show for free, I have to help the people who've been entertaining me for free for years by listening to harmless Navy ads for 60 seconds (the third is at the very end). Boo![/quote]

Did you even read the OT?
 
I wish someone would invent somwthing that could speed up time so i could skip these annoyint ads.....


they should call it like 'fast forward' or 'Time Speeder'.



YEAH! i wish i could Time Speed past these ads....
 
[quote name='Justme8800'] Regardless on one's position on US foreign policy, it's hard to argue that military recruiters are among the worst sharks out there. They prey on kids who don't know any better, convincing them that it's worth it to go through some of the most horrifying experiences this world has to offer, just to meet quotas. (This gets even worse when you consider concerned wars have absolutely nothing to do with defending one's country, but that's a whole different can of worms.) Helping these sharks by advertising them on your show is an incredible insult to your audience. Somewhere along the lines someone thinks that a significant portion of your listeners are the sort of people who could be convinced to go through with this by a radio ad.
[/QUOTE]

wait.....so you don't have a problem with ads but just NAVY ad? wtf....
 
The ads aren't that bad. I just wish there was a better flow into them. It honestly sounds like Cheapy goes back and adds the ads after doing the show initially.
 
[quote name='Justme8800']Ugh, I know that. This isn't about me, or at least I hope I'm not the only one who isn't listening until the navy ads stop. The point here is that the ads come with a cost, and that is that the CAGcast will lose some listeners on principle by running them. Unfortunately, this crowd would largely not be represented here, because they're all gone.

So long as Wombat and Cheapy are aware of this cost, it's their prerogative to keep doing it. I just want them to know why I've chosen to stop listening. Is that not fair?



Did you even read the OT?[/QUOTE]

Hell no. You wrote too much for a forum post.
 
Justme8800,

I can't speak for Wombat or Cheapy, but I'm quite certain they don't care. The percentage of listeners who have such a big problem with ads that they stop listening is so miniscule that there's really no reason for them to cater to that group. And when the end goal is to broaden and diversify the CAGcast's reach and broadcast (past podcasting, which is what I think they intend with this branding) the new listenership they gain will far outweight what so few of you will skip out on.

It's like a few people sticking to some ridiculous notion that "boycotting" EA Sports games would have any effect. Supporters/buyers of their product are always going to outweigh the detractors.

And try to cut back on the drama. No reason to write a dissertation when you could have just said, "I will no longer be listening to CAGcast as I feel you guys are selling out by playing the NAVY ads." I mean, seriously...it was "too painful to listen to" having the ads? Here you are trying to write a seriously toned explanation of your actions, but you make it sound like you're listening to the dying last yelps of your beloved family dog. Woe is me. It's a podcast. We all enjoy it, but try to get some perspective on the whole matter.

And what does "class" have to do with reading your post, in regards to Cheapy? Now to me, what would seem classless is taking cheap shots at someone's character with arguments that have absolutely no basis. He chooses not to read your post (since it pretty much echoes what's already been said, might I add), therefore one must have no class. Yes, makes plenty of sense to me.

BTW, Private Messaging is your friend. Would've saved us the trouble of going through all this again if your end goal really was just to ask Wombat to inform you when the ad campaign would end ('cause you're special) along with applying for the internship. The rest of your post could've been put far more succinctly and also placed in the aforementioned CAGcast show thread.

Thanks for listening. You won't be missed.

Sincerely,

All CAGcast listeners
 
Thank you for your feedback, everyone. While it's not particularly comforting that I am alone in feeling this way, it's nice that my rant did not fall on deaf ears.

Yes, it's overly dramatic. For that I apologize, it's just to make the point. I really enjoy the podcast, I tried to make that clear, and I am very genuinely sad that my principles won't allow me to continue listening to it. It sucks to be someone who stands up for what they believe in. I doubt, especially at this point, that it will make any difference, which makes it all the more sad.

Regarding Cheapy's "class" when it comes to mail, I thought that would have been obvious. It may not have been the best choice of vocabulary, but I'm referring to his tendancy to skip over and ignore what doesn't look interesting to him (displayed in just about every episode when it comes to community contributions). It has come across especially blatently when he's done it in the live shows, hanging up on a caller he just accepted without a second thought. I meant no malice in saying that, and it's no doubt for the better when it comes to the show, but I could very easily imagine him glossing over this whole topic before finishing the title. Couldn't you?

As for PMing, I did send that to Wombat like a week ago, didn't I mention that? The reason I posted it here was because I felt like I had mailed it into a brick wall, and I didn't want all that drama to go to waste. If you couldn't tell, I was rather upset when I wrote that.

And thank you, Steve, for your sincere and comprehensive response, even if it was less than cordial. I mean no insult to anyone concerning this topic, I just need to either learn that I'm not the only sane CAG, or why I'm not sane. I think what I have to say is reasonable, and I thank those who listen.

~Justme8800
 
[quote name='KingBroly']The ads aren't that bad. I just wish there was a better flow into them. It honestly sounds like Cheapy goes back and adds the ads after doing the show initially.[/quote]

he does
 
[quote name='Justme8800'] Regarding Cheapy's "class" when it comes to mail, I thought that would have been obvious. It may not have been the best choice of vocabulary, but I'm referring to his tendancy to skip over and ignore what doesn't look interesting to him (displayed in just about every episode when it comes to community contributions). It has come across especially blatently when he's done it in the live shows, hanging up on a caller he just accepted without a second thought. I meant no malice in saying that, and it's no doubt for the better when it comes to the show, but I could very easily imagine him glossing over this whole topic [/quote]
Skipping over what doesn't look interesting to me is just another way to describe producing a show. If it's not interesting to me, I guessing it's not interesting to our audience either. I don't see what this has to do with my class, character, morals, etc...

Regardless of your thoughts of the military or our government's current administration, there is no denying that the US Navy is an A-list advertiser. In my opinion, turning down such an advertiser is not a wise business decision for us and I feel the potential long-term positves outweigh the negatives. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

Your opinions are important to me and I certainly encourage our listeners to speak their minds in this forum. It's times like these when I really wish we could produce a quality live show so I could talk to you "on the air". Rest assured, I don't skip over any topic in the CAGcast forum. At the very least, I read the first post in every thread.
 
Cheapy,


No matter what anyone says we won't fault you for doing the ads. And yes people that don't like them can skip it.

If anything having an important advertiser like the Navy solidifies that your podcast is getting someone's attention.
 
1UP has 3-4 commercials in their much shorter podcast...compare that with CAGCast...and it is nothing...besides they are providing a free service..why can't they cash in a little on their success...
 
Don't worry OP, I have been very critical of the ads and their placement. Cheapy can see multiple sides of things, he's not an asshole.

One of the great things about this forum is, they let you speak your mind without deleting what you have to say. They only really delete spam and hate speech. Other than that, you can voice your mind without worrying about Big Brother censoring your thoughts.
 
You're too sensitive, OP. Let Cheapy make some money to help pay for this site we're all using.
 
I have no problem with a few 30 second ads for a free podcast, especially when the revenue from said ads are going to charity. Give CheapyD a break.
 
This whole website is set up to make money. Why would the podcast be any different.
From what everyone else has said , they are very short ads, so why not just zone out for 60 seconds or fast foward it past them. Easy peasy.
 
[quote name='Theduck']I hate the fucking Army ads and the dumb ass sharks that go to schools and talk to kids about the Army Reserves.[/QUOTE]

Yeah! Darn facists! Curse them for giving kids who can't afford college a chance to better themselves!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
I've said this in the other thread and let me say it again:

Cheapy and Wombat put at least 4 hours into every show. The Cagcast is usually a 90 minute MP3, with outlining and production I'm sure they put at least 4 hours of effort in. And yet people complain about a few seconds of ads. Jeez, can you be anymore ungrateful?

Now, If you are against the nature of the ad, I'd like to bring something up- an advertisement is just a suggestion. If you think people will drop their ipods, and run to their nearest recruitment depot, you're crazy. Study a bit of media effects, the 'hypodermic model' in particular. This model, although it's been outdated for 60 years or so, is what is used by anti-gaming groups. They also think people are so stupid and gullible, that we will copy Manhunt 2's on-screen mayhem.

By making statement like 'they(recruiters) prey on kids', you begin to sound like those conservative media 'analysts', who wrongfully worry that video games are rotting the younger generations minds.
 
[quote name='DesertEagleXIX']I've said this in the other thread and let me say it again:

Cheapy and Wombat put at least 4 hours into every show. The Cagcast is usually a 90 minute MP3, with outlining and production I'm sure they put at least 4 hours of effort in. And yet people complain about a few seconds of ads. Jeez, can you be anymore ungrateful?

Now, If you are against the nature of the ad, I'd like to bring something up- an advertisement is just a suggestion. If you think people will drop their ipods, and run to their nearest recruitment depot, you're crazy. Study a bit of media effects, the 'hypodermic model' in particular. This model, although it's been outdated for 60 years or so, is what is used by anti-gaming groups. They also think people are so stupid and gullible, that we will copy Manhunt 2's on-screen mayhem.

By making statement like 'they(recruiters) prey on kids', you begin to sound like those conservative media 'analysts', who wrongfully worry that video games are rotting the younger generations minds.[/quote]

very true. and if you will excuse me, I'm of to shove a glass shard in somebodys back
 
[quote name='SteveMcQ']

Sincerely,

All CAGcast listeners[/QUOTE]

please don't pretend to speak for all the CAGcast listeners. (Maybe just the ones up Cheapy's butt-no fault of his)

The ads largely suck and skipping is not an always an option. (I listen while running). But, If Cheapy and Wombat feel the need for them for respectability, that's fine with me.

The ads are far less annoying than Wombat's constant whining about wanting free games, thank god that is over with.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Yeah! Darn facists! Curse them for giving kids who can't afford college a chance to better themselves!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/quote]

Man, all those rolling your eye smilies really get your point across. Did you also do it at home infront of the computer when you read my post?

Yeah, lets con kids into joining the army making them think we're giving them all of this stuff for free, when in reality we'll send them to a pointless oil driven war to get killed!!

Here's the smilie i'll use because I just put some sunglasses on to post this.

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
 
[quote name='DesertEagleXIX']

By making statement like 'they(recruiters) prey on kids', you begin to sound like those conservative media 'analysts', who wrongfully worry that video games are rotting the younger generations minds.[/QUOTE]

Yeah! Conservatives like Hilary Clinton! :D
 
the ads dont bother me at all. especially because cheapy will be donating the add money to charity. three 30 second clips in a 2 hour show is not bad at all! so in a span of 2 hours you hear the navy being mentioned for a whole 1 minute and 30 seconds, oh nooooo boo hooo.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Yeah! Darn facists! Curse them for giving kids who can't afford college a chance to better themselves!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
I don't really care, except when they're really pushy. I still get calls from them at least once a month and last time they were pretty much making an appointment for me to visit them. I told them make the appointment, but I'm not going to be there.

EDIT: Just to clarify I'm not against the Navy ads at all. I see nothing wrong with them and they're very short, too short for me to care enough to skip past them.
 
[quote name='Theduck']Man, all those rolling your eye smilies really get your point across. Did you also do it at home infront of the computer when you read my post?

Yeah, lets con kids into joining the army making them think we're giving them all of this stuff for free, when in reality we'll send them to a pointless oil driven war to get killed!!

Here's the smilie i'll use because I just put some sunglasses on to post this.

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:[/QUOTE]

They get my point across more than your name-calling and foul language do.
 
The Navy is the main sponsor for only a short while, perhaps after that Cheapy will get a different sponsor that is more gaming related.

If not, well then just suck it up or just don't listen to the show.
 
I hope everyone who doesn't listen to the cagcast because of the navy ads is consistent and doesn't drive anywhere because of those incessant billboards, leaves theaters when there is product placement, doesn't watch tv, and doesn't go to a website with ads, like maybe cag? Or you are a dummy who can't stand any changes and sends emails and cries about it.
 
More Navy ads, please. You could also add Army, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard as well. Whatever pisses off all these anti-military assholes.
 
I don't know which is more distasteful, the suggestion that the Navy preys upon naive young adults, or the suggestion that people only serve in the Navy because they didn't know any better.

Besides, the Navy is benefiting from an increase in recruits who want to avoid ground combat, to the detriment of the Army and Marine Corps. They don't need to decieve anyone.
 
A well-written and thorough topic post, a rarity here or elsewhere (especially the latter!) these days. That said, while I'm not going to say your passion is misdirected, I will opine that the ads are unobtrusive enough and short enough to be totally innocuous. Let's be honest here: does anyone really think a minute or so of Navy banter is going to get some Halo punk to enlist? With all due respect to those serving our country, I'm going to wager that these (along with anything else NOT in the typical gamer's wheelhouse) are going to be summarily ignored.

Now, if Cheapy and/or Wombat were to start blurring the lines and dropping Navy plugs like a half-drunk 'play-by-play' guy pitching for his friend's Italian restaurant or barber shop during the "High School Game of the Week", then we've got an issue worth raising the CAG Defcon level for. As it stands, I don't feel like the Navy ads have 'compromised' the CAGcast, and I don't think the ads are going to work. At all. But if the military wants to try....
 
Ok first of all, Cheapy, you just jumped up a few thousand notches on my respect scale. I completely take back anything detrimental I may have implied about you, especially when it comes to listening to your listeners. I was wrong to assume I needed to address my issues to Wombat, especially since he's probably so swamped with his new job and all.

As far as the Navy being an A-list advertiser, I completely agree. But if there was one thing that could be changed in all of this, it's that I hope the CAGcast can find a different, and hopefully more relevant, A-list advertiser. Maybe some big game publisher, or an electronics retailer.

To everyone who has jumped on me without even reading what I said in the first place, you're not really adding to the discussion. I tried to address these in the OT, but it seems some clarification is in order.

A) I am not complaining about ads in of themselves. Skipping 30 seconds is no more annoying for me than it is for any of you. Or, heaven forbid, listening to a little spiel telling me about a cool new game release! That's kind of why I listen to the show in the first place, eh? If it makes Cheapy and Wombat some extra cash, all the better.

B) When I say "sharks," I am NOT reffering to the US Navy. I have nothing but respect for the people working in civil defense. I am referring to the recruiters, and I would not be so short-sighted as to lump them in with the Navy itself.


C) Who said anything about people dropping their ipods and running to recruitment centers? Are you trying to say that advertising doesn't work? And what does in-game violence have to do with this?

D) Kosh, no one here is "anti-military," and no one here is an "asshole." Why do you desire people to be pissed off, anyways? This discussion is centered around avoiding that. I'm trying to be as articulate and adult as I can about this.

[quote name='jollydwarf']Let's be honest here: does anyone really think a minute or so of Navy banter is going to get some Halo punk to enlist? [/quote]

Heh, the Navy sure seems to think so. :) Thank you as well for your well-written and thorough reply, it's a bit easier to read than some of the other posts here.

And thanks to everyone who has added their two cents, it's nice to hear everyone's opinion.
 
[quote name='DesertEagleXIX']I've said this in the other thread and let me say it again:

Cheapy and Wombat put at least 4 hours into every show. The Cagcast is usually a 90 minute MP3, with outlining and production I'm sure they put at least 4 hours of effort in. And yet people complain about a few seconds of ads. Jeez, can you be anymore ungrateful?

[/QUOTE]


well thats cheapy's job, so i don't think you can saint him yet, it probably is hardwork, but this pushes his CAG brand which increases members, which increases ad revenue. While wombat has gotten so much games, gaming schwag, access to events and even jobs from being on the CAGcasts that he is hardly altruistic in his doing of the podcasts

I dont fault either of them, but just realize its not just from the good of their hearts alone.
 
A couple of ads are not going to hurt you.
*whacks head on brick wall*

This isn't about me. What is so difficult to understand about this? I spent a lot of time trying to make my writing easy to read, and my point easy to get. I apologize, because I've evidently failed on these counts. Where did I go wrong? :cry:
 
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