Kane & Lynch didn't sell 1,000,000 & Zack & Wiki didn't bomb, and other sales facts..

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roland13x

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Just bored here at the studio, figured I'd throw out an interesting (?) topic.

I've got the latest NPD numbers, and saw some interesting stuff...

Kane & Lynch DID NOT sell 1,000,000 units. They might have shipped that many, but they've sold closer to 340k on the 360 and PS3 combined

Zach & Wiki, though not a huge success story, has so far sold nearly 70k. Granted, not a huge amount, but more than games you'd think would sell better on the Wii, like Surf's Up and Open Season.

Nintendo owns 7 of the top 9 selling Wii games, with GHIII and Mario/Sonic Olympics holding their own very well.

The publisher Conspiracy has 8 of the bottom 11 selling Wii titles. Guess people really don't want to play such gems as Mythmakers: SuperKart GP or Counter Force.

In the lifetime of the DS, only 15 games have sold 1,000,000 or more. All 15 of those games are by Nintendo. Disney's Hannah Montana is about to join that party.

There are no million sellers on the PS3, though CoD4 should change that any day now.

There are 13 million sellers on 360, with CoD3 about to join that rank as well.

Games that I have worked on in one form or another have sold a total of 9.79 million on the PS2, 360 and PS3 (I don't have numbers for Xbox, GC or PC). That's nuts.

The GBA still sold $32 million in software in Dec 07
The GC still sold $12 million in software in Dec 07
The original Xbox sold $20,000 more in software in Dec 07 than the GC did
The PS3 sold the 5th most software in Dec 07, and it's not even close to the 4th place.

I really love sales numbers....any questions?
 
It depends on how much they put into it. These are US numbers alone, and it's generated revenues of nearly $3 million. Add in the Japan and Europe sales, and it really isn't terrible, considering it's a (god forbid) original title for the Wii.

Oh, and I wish the media would stop reporting that Viva Pinata was a mini-bomb. It sold 356k, generating $13.5 million. I'd love to have a bomb like that.
 
[quote name='roland13x']Games that I have worked on in one form or another have sold a total of 9.79 million on the PS2, 360 and PS3 (I don't have numbers for Xbox, GC or PC). That's nuts.[/QUOTE]
Which games are these?

Also, fairly fun facts. This thread gets the PyroGamer stamp of approval.
 
The PS3 sold the 5th most software in Dec 07, and it's not even close to the 4th place.
Click to expand...


behind the Wii, 360, PSP, and DS I hope, rather than the GBA, Gamecube, and Xbox ;)


good to hear Kane and Lynch isn't selling well.
 
[quote name='Apossum']good to hear Kane and Lynch isn't selling well.[/QUOTE]

340K is a lot, though, isn't it? It's not Halo 3 or CoD4, but it's still more than enough to turn a profit, I'd guess.
 
I'd like to hear the games that you have worked on, OP. Just curious. I want to see if I own any of your work.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']340K is a lot, though, isn't it? It's not Halo 3 or CoD4, but it's still more than enough to turn a profit, I'd guess.[/QUOTE]


leaves 700k on shelves though. seems like a lot of company for Primal, Mad Maestro, and Tomb Raider.
 
Interesting tidbits there - found the Nintendo ones especially interesting. Knew they were supported entirely by themselves, just didnt quite think it was so extreme.
 
Clearly, it is proof that 340,000 do not consider Gerstmann a close acquaintance, and never invite him over for tea.

Or know who he is.
 
[quote name='akilshohen']shouldn't mario and sonic olympics count as a nintendo title?[/QUOTE]
it is published by sega in the US
 
[quote name='mykevermin']340K is a lot, though, isn't it? It's not Halo 3 or CoD4, but it's still more than enough to turn a profit, I'd guess.[/QUOTE]


300k is good enough to get "Greatest Hits" status but if you want to split the sales in half then you only have 170 per system.

340000 x 60 = $ 20,4000,000.00 in sales. The game was in production for a few years and it was a brand new property and the spent a bit of money advertising the game as well. I would think that it was profitable but very little. By the time it makes a price drop then it could really make a profit but I wouldn't think they are too happy with those results.
 
i thought that both resistance and motostorm sold 1 million+ copies. I have nothing to back this thought up besides my memory that i saw that somewhere.
 
no million sellers on ps3? clearly OP doesnt know what hes talking about. Resistance and Motorstorm are both on their way to 2million sold by now. CoD4 is about 1.2 million sold on ps3, and i believe AC is the next million seller. I believe Uncharted worldwide is now very close to 1 million sold
 
That does conflict slightly with Matt's account of the NPD data.

He said that from the top 100, 20 Wii games charted vs 18 from 360, with only 5 of those from first party Nintendo. Furthermore, every game until rank 121 moved 100k units, so there are some solid 3rd party sales in there. Wii software outsold 360 software overall in December.

Perhaps you're counting Mario & Sonic as 1st party? Also, Mario Party 8 was developed by Hudson Soft.

With regards to Z&W, 70k is decent, especially if you take into account how much it cost to make. InuFaye is living in living in a fantasy world where games have to sell 500k-1M to be successful, when most games only probably ever sell 200k. Z&W had a fairly healthy debut in Europe, and should be able to get near 200k LTD worldwide at some point. Its got some slow legs.
 
[quote name='cargo555']no million sellers on ps3? clearly OP doesnt know what hes talking about. Resistance and Motorstorm are both on their way to 2million sold by now. CoD4 is about 1.2 million sold on ps3, and i believe AC is the next million seller. I believe Uncharted worldwide is now very close to 1 million sold[/quote]

The OP is quoting NPD numbers, which cover US sales only.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart'] InuFaye is living in living in a fantasy world where games have to sell 500k-1M to be successful[/quote]

When im told Crysis is a "failure" when it sells 80k copies and it has to come to consoles to make money, then 70k would technically be a failure. I think a game has to sell 100k to be successfull.
 
How many copies it has to sell to be successful is entirely relative to development costs. I dont think Atlus even SHIPS 100k copies of the vast majority of its games.

I'm going to wildly speculate that Crysis cost significantly more to make than Z&W. So Crysis at 80k IS a failure, whereas Z&W ISNT.

When you hear statements from the likes of Namco saying that they have to sell 500k to start seeing a profit, thats really specific to next-gen.

Z&W will hit 100k worldwide easy. I would put final count at closer to 150-200k.
 
[quote name='Apossum']leaves 700k on shelves though. seems like a lot of company for Primal, Mad Maestro, and Tomb Raider.[/QUOTE]

A valid point, because while they may be cheap to press in bulk, 660,000 copies isn't cheap to swallow.

EDIT: LOL at DMK coming to Zack and Wiki's aid.
 
70k is awesome when you consider Z&W had only sold 35k in its first two months. Big December!

Considering it actually charted in the UK, I think it will do fine worldwide. Sequel!
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']How many copies it has to sell to be successful is entirely relative to development costs. I dont think Atlus even SHIPS 100k copies of the vast majority of its games.

I'm going to wildly speculate that Crysis cost significantly more to make than Z&W. So Crysis at 80k IS a failure, whereas Z&W ISNT.

When you hear statements from the likes of Namco saying that they have to sell 500k to start seeing a profit, thats really specific to next-gen.

Z&W will hit 100k worldwide easy. I would put final count at closer to 150-200k.[/quote]

lulz.
 
Is it really that hard to understand that a game which cost $1 million to make would have to sell far fewer copies to be considered a success than a game that cost $15 million?
 
Not sure how much Zack and Wiki cost to make, but Crysis is most definitely a failure at this point. Maybe it'll sell steadily over the next year or two as people get better PCs. It has great reviews, and people show interest in it, but the tech bar is high right now.

And this is what I thought the devs could see too, but apparently they're pissed about its sales right now and are promoting that it can run well on a cheap system (which it can easily.)

If Z+W only cost a million to make, they've already made a nice profit in the U.S.
 
I'd still love for the OP to disclose what games he/she worked on. PM me sir/ma'am, I have nothing to gain by telling anyone. :p
 
I really wish I knew how much crysis took to make.
I also want to know how much Zack and Wiki took to make.
 
Did Eidos state Kane & Lynch sold 1 million in the U.S., or worldwide? NPD is US-only, so that might explain the difference in sales figures.
 
LOTS to respond to....let's go for it...

[quote name='PyroGamer']Which games are these?

Also, fairly fun facts. This thread gets the PyroGamer stamp of approval.[/QUOTE]

Huzzah! I love approval!

A brief list of some of the games I've worked on...and in no way do I take the credit or blame for any of these titles. Every game is a collaborative effort. Some I had less significant roles than others. And this doesn't include most stuff for the PC, which I used to see a ton of back in my QA days.

Blade II
Tony Hawk 3
Xmen - Next Dimension
X2 - Wolverine's Revenge
Minority Report
Call of Duty
Star Trek - Bridge Commander
Star Trek - Elite Force II
Call of Duty 2: Big Red One
Call of Duty: Finest Hour
Call of Duty 3
Spider-Man: The Movie
300 March to Glory
AND my super-secret-still-hasn't-been-announced WiiWare game that my new dev studio is crunching on right now. Shhh!

[quote name='Apossum']behind the Wii, 360, PSP, and DS I hope, rather than the GBA, Gamecube, and Xbox ;)

good to hear Kane and Lynch isn't selling well.[/QUOTE]

Yes. The order (in dollar amount) is 360/Wii/PS2/DS/PS3

[quote name='mykevermin']340K is a lot, though, isn't it? It's not Halo 3 or CoD4, but it's still more than enough to turn a profit, I'd guess.[/QUOTE]

Lots of people have already addressed this, but I figured I'll add my own spice to the mix. Yes, 340k is a lot, especially since this is 2 months at most of sales. However, "a lot" is completely relative to the cost of development. I haven't played K&L yet (I, like most of you, are waiting for it to hit that magical $20 point), but my guess would be it was a fairly expensive project, especially for Eidos. I'd guess total dev, publishing and marketing budget to be around $15 million. Most likely, this is going to be a huge (again, another relative term) success for them.

[quote name='akilshohen']are you surfer girl by any chance? :D[/QUOTE]

If I was, I think my girlfriend would be very surprised. Nope, I'm just a dude with some numbers, wasting some of my valuable "final Beta push" weekend time. I love me some numbers, and figured some of you would too.

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']That does conflict slightly with Matt's account of the NPD data.

He said that from the top 100, 20 Wii games charted vs 18 from 360, with only 5 of those from first party Nintendo. Furthermore, every game until rank 121 moved 100k units, so there are some solid 3rd party sales in there. Wii software outsold 360 software overall in December.

Perhaps you're counting Mario & Sonic as 1st party? Also, Mario Party 8 was developed by Hudson Soft.[/QUOTE]

According to these NPD numbers, which is up to and including Dec 07, there are 91 Wii games that have broken the 100k mark, with another 8 in the mid-90k range.

The 360 outsold the Wii in terms of software dollars, but I'd be willing to bet in terms of units, the Wii was the victor, taking into the lower price point per game.

According to this, there are 26 360 titles in the top 100 (sales only in December), 23 for the Wii, and only 10 from the PS3.

And no, Mario & Sonic is not considered 1st party since Sega published it, and regardless of who developed it, Mario Party 8 is 1st party since Nintendo published it.



I'll add to my interesting (?) facts and figures in a little bit. Seems like people really dig Nintendo factoids, so I'll start digging.
 
Found the answer to my own question:

Link to story

SCi Entertainment and subsidiary Eidos said Thursday that Kane and Lynch: Dead Men has sold over 1 million copies at retail since its mid-November launch.

The strong global sales essentially guarantee a sequel to the game, which was developed by the studio behind the top-selling Hitman series.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, keep 'em coming, OP! The more you waste your time looking up factoids, the more I waste my time reading 'em! ^_^
 
There are 1,776 PS2 games being currently tracked.

The three main (non PSP ports) GTA titles on the PS2 have sold a cumulative 20 million, and reside in the top 3 slots.

Madden 2003 through 2007 are also in the top 10 PS2 all-time, with cumulative sales of 15.6 million. Anyone wanna guess what was the best selling PS2 Madden title?

Gran Turismo 3 and Kingdom Hearts round out the top 10 PS2.

Fatal Inertia for the 360, which was released in September 07, has only sold 7k copies. That's the lowest tracked 360 game.

Rock Band (non-special edition) for the PS3 is the lowest tracked title for that system with 4.5k sold. I wonder how people actually play it...

The lowest selling non-December released title for the Wii is the fantastic sounding Offroad Extreme Special Edition. I wonder what makes this a special edition? Probably not special enough to sell 611 copies.

Though nothing really spectacular, PSP software sales are a bit surprising to me, as there are 118 games over the 100k plateau. The lowest tracked PSP game is Tenchu: Time of the Assassins with a grand total of 4 copies sold. This has to be a mistake...anyone heard of this game?
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 2005 since it was the last year before EA swallowed the NFL license and they were also pushing that year as the anniversary edition if I remember correctly.
 
[quote name='daroga']2005?

Looking at PS2 review archives I think IGN gave that one a 9.5 or something insane.[/QUOTE]

Nope again.

Alright, I'll answer it...then I hope someone can explain why this one may be better than the others. It's the 2004 edition with 3.45 million. 2006 then 2005 follow behind by about 100k each.
 
I know Walmart doesn't share sales #'s, so how does NPD account for this? Do they estimate, or are Walmart's #'s just not accounted for in NPD sales figures?
 
[quote name='Walt Jay']I know Walmart doesn't share sales #'s, so how does NPD account for this? Do they estimate, or are Walmart's #'s just not accounted for in NPD sales figures?[/QUOTE]

From what I understand, Walmart (as well as a few other places) sales figures are actually included in the NPD numbers, but not necessarily as exact figures, but rather interpolations of figures. Supposedly they've gotten quite good at them, though of course non of this is exact science. There are many mom and pop shops that aren't included as well.

For reference, here's Kotaku's take on the situation...http://kotaku.com/gaming/npd/npd-how-it-works-229825.php

This is interesting...http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_070627.html
Looks like Walmart and NPD jumped into bed last summer.
 
Some games' sales figures that surprise/sadden me a bit...aka, games I've played and really enjoyed and thought others would too.

Elebits - 135k
Earth Defense Force - 52k
Beautiful Katamari - 62k
Call of Juarez - 109k


Disgaea was Atlus' best selling game with 135k

Alright, off to a rainy lunch.
 
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